Why Are Sebenzas So Popular?

Being a "Gun nut" too, I'll give a go at the original posters question. He really wasn't asking if Sebbies are worth it, just why can a very high quality knife cost as much as a high quality hand-gun.

Comparing them straight across is not as similar as it seems. For one, the tooling & production #s of a S&W 686 revolver is MUCH higher than that of a Sebbie. S&W are turning out many more revolvers than CRK is turning out Sebs.

Also, the tooling for S&W has been paid for along time ago as they have been making literally the same product for over 50 yrs. Sure, the metal they use now is better, but as far as the part shapes & such, it's the same.

So, guns, because of their higher #s, longer running model lines, etc. probably have a much higher profit margin. Hand-Guns don't cost as much to make as people think. A good portion of that extra cost is insurance & lawyers for all the lawsuits liberals feel the need to pile onto gun manufacturers.

As to knives, they don't have nearly the overhead for legal battles, hence their actual cost to produce the knife is probably quite a bit more than the gun.

Now, after that, you might say "Jeeze!" so the gun, which is quite a bit larger is actually less to make? Yes, & it's because of the much higher production #'s & much longer product runs.

It's not close of a comparison as it seems.

Hope that helps.
 
There are so many topics in this one thread that it's hard to keep track of where it's going. But Confederate's actual question is a good one: Why does the much larger and more complex S&W cost the same is a relatively simple tool like the Sebbie? I don't know, but I've asked the same question about why a $5,000 mountain bike costs the same as a factory motocross motorcycle, which is much larger and has an engine and electronics and is just a much more complex machine.

I think part of the answer is that the Sebbie requires a lot of individual attention and special parts that are made in relatively small amounts. Remember the $600 hammer that Boeing built for the Air Force. Well, that hammer had to be designed for a specific use by an engineer, and a machinist had to build it, and a carpenter had to fit it with a handle and Boeing had to make a profit.

I think the answer is that modern, high-production assembly plants building uniform widgets are extremely efficient. Look at the little $1 button lights you can buy. Geez, $1 and you have the plastic body, the LED bulb, a battery, a switching system and it has to be put together and shipped from China to the US. How can that be done for a buck? I don't know.

On the other hand, look at my custom Maglite compared to a Fenix LED light with multiple brightness settings and complicated electronics and such, which you can get for $60. My Mag cost me more than $400, which to most people seems unreal for a flashlight. But consider that I had to have barrel extensions made (the thing is 3 feet long), a new head had to be built from scratch (oversize pyrex window, 3-inch reflector, new head to house this reflector), a ceramic bulb holder to hold the 90 watt bulb (driven to 200 watts), a beefed up switch with a handmade Mossfet bypass circuit to handle 40 amps (enough to fry household wiring), resistance mods so all the power could be used effectively, and 17 high-current NiMH batteries in a custom size (1/2D).

Why do all that? Because while the stock Maglite this thing started out as put out 35 lumens, this monster puts out closer to 14,000 lumens. It will blind you. It will light up the next city. Shine it on a newspaper and the newspaper with burst into flames.

OK, it cost more than $400. But when a poacher pulled up to my remote homestead in the middle of the night and had this beast shined in his eyes, he fled like he had demons climbing up his butt. Priceless.
 
Twindog said:
But consider that I had to have barrel extensions made (the thing is 3 feet long), a new head had to be built from scratch (oversize pyrex window, 3-inch reflector, new head to house this reflector), a ceramic bulb holder to hold the 90 watt bulb (driven to 200 watts), a beefed up switch with a handmade Mossfet bypass circuit to handle 40 amps (enough to fry household wiring), resistance mods so all the power could be used effectively, and 17 high-current NiMH batteries in a custom size (1/2D).

Why do all that? Because while the stock Maglite this thing started out as put out 35 lumens, this monster puts out closer to 14,000 lumens. It will blind you. It will light up the next city. Shine it on a newspaper and the newspaper with burst into flames.

OK, it cost more than $400. But when a poacher pulled up to my remote homestead in the middle of the night and had this beast shined in his eyes, he fled like he had demons climbing up his butt. Priceless.
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Sweet Jesus!
 
These threads pop up al the time, and I think I now know why...Not one single person who ever posted this type of thread owns a sebenza, lol, GO OUT AND BUY ONE...If you don't like it sell it, if you can't affrod it, put it on credit, get it, then sell it right away and pay your bill, lol, at least then you will know...

Its hard to explain why...why does an orange taste good? Soem peopel don't like oranges...but what if you did and tried to tell them how good they are, and they are like well I don't like them, why does everyone want oranges...Same thing in my mind...There is no answer to this question really, its about personal taste...not everyone will want a sebenza, but you gotta own one 1st before you judge, or ask why so much? whats the big deal? I am not a gun man, I love guns, but I never got into them because I can't afford another hobby, lol...but to me, I woudl ask why is that revolver worth $400? I cna shoot someone with a $100 gun and kill them just the same...And the gun guys would be like YOU HAVE NO IDEA...lol, and its true, I don't...Same with the sebenza, some poeple just don't get it...until they get one for themselves...and even then some people still don't get it, lol...
 
CL01 said:
Comparing them straight across is not as similar as it seems. For one, the tooling & production #s of a S&W 686 revolver is MUCH higher than that of a Sebbie. S&W are turning out many more revolvers than CRK is turning out Sebs. Also, the tooling for S&W has been paid for along time ago as they have been making literally the same product for over 50 yrs. Sure, the metal they use now is better, but as far as the part shapes & such, it's the same.As to knives, they don't have nearly the overhead for legal battles, hence their actual cost to produce the knife is probably quite a bit more than the gun.
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Now this answer is one that finally brings some focus in economic terms. If I understand the argument, if S&W were to produce as many firearms as CRK produces Sebenzas, then the revolvers would cost much, much more than the knife. Large production runs and consumer demand significantly reduce the price of the S&W. Low production runs and consumer demand are why Sebenzas cost as much as the revolvers.

Thus, if one person wanted five Sebenzas from scratch and another wanted five quality revolvers from scratch, the revolvers would always exceed the price of the knives.
 
Also Chris reeve is one man with a small company...Smith and wesson is a large company generating millions of dollars...overhead costs are a bit different...and that effects pricing...
 
Twindog said:
OK, it cost more than $400. But when a poacher pulled up to my remote homestead in the middle of the night and had this beast shined in his eyes, he fled like he had demons climbing up his butt. Priceless.
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Man, this one post was worth creating this entire thread! You said you were testing this thing against a Fenix? What were the results? Assuming you're serious, I'd sure like to see a pic of your monster light...er...next to a knife, of course, just to keep this on topic.

Also, would you mind telling your story over at Candlepower Forums, if you haven't already?

Anyway, I can understand why new developments need to be made in critical technology areas. I, too, have seen these LEDs come out of nowhere and they're blowing away their incandescent cousins.

In the sense of the Sebenza, however, owners have to admit that one of the chief reasons they like them, and it's a legitimate reason, is because the humand mind admires quality. Many people collect those small Minox spy cameras. Not that they ever had any intention of using them; it's just that the quality of holding one was a singular experience. It's this same admiration of quality, I imagine, that drives the demand for Sebenzas. As a mere tool, though, I also don't think too many people use their Sebenzas for batoning or prying crates.

cutlerylover said:
Also Chris Reeve is one man with a small company...Smith and Wesson is a large company generating millions of dollars...overhead costs are a bit different...and that effects pricing...
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So what would happen if Chris decided to move his popular knife into mass production? I'll bet the price would drop significantly while the quality might very well remain the same. But would this knife still be as popular if he quadrupled production and the price fell to, say, $175 for what had previously been a $375 knife?
 
So what would happen if Chris decided to move his popular knife into mass production? I'll bet the price would drop significantly while the quality might very well remain the same.
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I doubt that will ever happen. You would have to sacrifice quality to get the price down. Have you watched the CRK DVD? There's probably 6 checks by hand along the way before it gets the final checks before shipping.
 
Confederate said:
Anyway, I can understand why new developments need to be made in critical technology areas. I, too, have seen these LEDs come out of nowhere and they're blowing away their incandescent cousins.
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Maybe for small lights, but Incandescent still wins over LED when your talkijg about the big boys...Mag85 mod ring a bell? Macs torch, lol, over 4,000 lumens...Never saw an LED spotlight used on helicopters, lol..Anyway its early in the game for lights and LED's, who knows whats next....Anyway back to knives, Only the CPFers know what Im talking about anyway...lol...:D
 
Confederate said:
So what would happen if Chris decided to move his popular knife into mass production? I'll bet the price would drop significantly while the quality might very well remain the same. But would this knife still be as popular if he quadrupled production and the price fell to, say, $175 for what had previously been a $375 knife?
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We could ask ourselves what if questions all day long and it wouldn't solve a thing...What if knives were free? would we still have this discussion...no, because all these sebenza threads are all about the same thgin, MONEY...I never see any why is this custom so expensive threads? why? the sebenza is not a custom per say, but there are other proudction knives that are up there in price too, never read any threads from people asking why?
 
Confederate said:
Now this answer is one that finally brings some focus in economic terms. If I understand the argument, if S&W were to produce as many firearms as CRK produces Sebenzas, then the revolvers would cost much, much more than the knife. Large production runs and consumer demand significantly reduce the price of the S&W. Low production runs and consumer demand are why Sebenzas cost as much as the revolvers.

Thus, if one person wanted five Sebenzas from scratch and another wanted five quality revolvers from scratch, the revolvers would always exceed the price of the knives.
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I mentioned that back on post #9 of this thread. A larger volume of sales.
 
I'll ask it: "When compared to a sebenza, why are custom knives so expensive? It's not lake they are better quality."

There, debate that.
 
DaveH said:
I'll ask it: "When compared to a sebenza, why are custom knives so expensive? It's not lake they are better quality."

There, debate that.
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Exactly how i feel. :thumbup:
]
Most of the "affordable" knife companies have higher end products that cost more than a sebenza. Just because CR chooses not to make "lower" end merchandise doesnt mean they couldnt.

I use "lower" loosely, not saying that cheaper knives arent of good quality. Just not to the standard of CR.
 
It was this line (see below) in the first post to this thread that seemed to cause person who started this thread a real problem.

"So why would someone pay as much for one as a S&W 686 combat .357? It seemingly violates the laws of the universe. Or am I missing something?"

Another way to put the question... a 686 has many more parts than a Sebenza ,so why is ithe 686 about the same price as a Sebenza? And, the question was answered later in this thread.

Rich
 
For one, the tooling & production #s of a S&W 686 revolver is MUCH higher than that of a Sebbie. S&W are turning out many more revolvers than CRK is turning out Sebs.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economies_of_scale


So why does a quality knife cost as much as a quality revolver??
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Why are people willing to pay massive amounts of dollars for a knife===>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_finance
The main determinants of individual demand are: the price of the good, level of income, personal tastes, the population (number of people), the government policies, the price of substitute goods, and the price of complementary goods.
Click to expand...

I think people pay good money because they think Chris Reeve himself is sitting on a bench making each one by hand
Maybe he does do all the work himself???
If that is the case them that alone would explain why his knives cost so much

Also
There is the "keeping up with The Jones" factor
Billy around the corner got a CRK with a 3 inch blade so Johnny buys a CRK with a 4 inch blade and bolsters made out of a meteorite

To me as a non custom knife buyer it seems to work like this===>
Some dude makes a few custom knives
Let's call him Bill Blade
Bill Blade gathers a following and starts making more knives
People really like Bill Blades knives
He gets good reviews on BF's.com
Next thing you know Bill Blades knives start costing about 400 bucks a piece
There is a 1 year waiting list
Then some guy posts in the Custom Knives section===>
"Ordered my Bill Blade today!!!"
(Trent reads the post===>Who the fuck is Bill Blade? Am I supposed to be excited for the guy??)
"Can't wait till she gets here"
"I had to work overtime for a year to pay for it...But I say what the the heck...I've wanted a Bill Blade knive for about 4 years now...Don't tell the wife though!!!!"
"MY Bill BLade folder is here fellas!!!!"
"Wow...she looks good...does it have bushings in the pivot??..Is that HC 420??..I really like the convex grind..I wasn't gonna get one but since I saw your's I'm gonna order one If I have room left on my Visa Card......"
 
Ever stood back from this subject for a few minutes to look at the bigger picture?

It is in the best interest of S & W et al to flood the market with affordable hand guns. Market share equates to a positive balance sheet even though you are selling your product at a low margin. Positive balance sheet equates to happy investors in the stock exchange ergo positive reviews by stock guru's. Strong balance sheet gets the attention of the US Government who are the largest purchaser of weapons on earth. So you sell your low cost hand gun to the majority so you can get to the front of the line when it comes to supplying the US DoD with high end rifles and other weapons for tanks, aircraft etc etc.

Little CRK is quietly making quality hand knives to a strong following of enthusiasts plus a nice order to the US Army for the "Pacific". Private company, no investors to keep happy and what I assume to be a healthy balance sheet.

My $0.02 worth.
 
the idea that a knife, with what did someone count, 22 parts (including washers) has more labor involved than a revolver makes me not want to touch a S&W.
 
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