Why are sheaths so expensive?

This doesn't really answer your question... but if you make the jump to doing it yourself, it's really not too difficult. Also, I am confident you would save yourself money in the end especially if you already have a lot of the tools around the house.

Sure, you may not get the exact professional-looking finished product you want, but if it functions just as well and you're going to use your knives, what's the difference?

Just a suggestion.
 
Last Visible Canary said:
two reasons: materials and labor.

I've purchases sheaths and I've made several. I've used moderately ghetto equipment and EXTREMELY ghetto equipment. some turned out okay, others looked like I ran over it with my car a couple of times (not far from the truth).

The material cost:
12x12 .08 black kydex sheet - 5.00
small tek-lock belt loop - 10.00
mounting screws/chicago screws/foam washers (10)- 6.00
Pack of rivets (100)- 10.00

tools required:
rivet flare - 2.00-100.00 (I have a 1 ton arbor press and riven flare bit from harbor freight that was about 50$)
closed cell foam - 9.00
drill press or dremel - 25.00-100.00
hacksaw/sander/sandpaper - 10.00-100.00 depending how ghetto you want to be
c-clamps - 10.00
channel iron or thick pieces of wood - 0.00-20.00


so. at the absolute cheapest to make your own sheath, assuming you have all the tools required, your minimum cost for 2 sheaths (12x12 kydex sheath) is 31$. This is assuming your going to work for free. You can stretch the cost out a little bit by using the 100 rivets and the other chicago screws for your next sheath, but it's only going to drop the price by a few dollars. your still looking at around 20$+ in raw materials unless you can buy in bulk. If you need to buy the bare necessary tools your looking at a minimum of 40$. You NEED something to cut holes in the kydex, cut the kydex, flare the rivets, and press the kydex into shape. that 40$ is even assuming your going to do it as absolutely ghetto as possible:

Your going to use your dremel to do everything. You're not even going to use rivets, your going to drill the holes with your dremel and use bolts and nuts to secure it, your not going to use a tek-lock your going to get a piece of belt leather and dremel holes into it. Your going to cut the kydex to shape with your dremel and your going to use 2 pieces of salvaged 2x4's with two c-clamps to press the foam against the kydex. your still looking at 9$ foam, 20$ dremel, and 10$ c-clamps.

Then there is labor. Lets assume the person wants to make a modest 10$ an hour, which is just above minimum wage here in california. It takes me at least 45 minutes to get a sheath from parts to usable, and an hour and a half if I'm trying to make it look nice, assuming all goes well. It's pretty hard to get things to work right when your jerry rigging channel iron and multiple c-clamps by yourself.



Add 15$ to your 31$ materials cost and you now have a 46$ sheath or [15+15+31]/2 = 30.50$ per sheath for two sheaths. Nothing is free. Nothing worth having is easy. If you want to make your own sheaths you can cut costs in the long run, but you probably won't get the quality and consistency as a maker purchased sheath and you'll have to spend the initial capital to get the equipment, unless you have your own shop that's already set up for that type of work.
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This was a great write-up. Haha how long did this take you?
 
I asked a similar question as yours a while back, 230, and was greeted with the same mix of thoughtful responses and people bashing me for being a cheapskate.



I ended up learning to make my own kydex. My DIY sheaths are fugly, but they hold my knives securely, and cost me a fraction of what it costs to buy them. However, I had all the required tools already, and all I had to purchase was materials and a cheap hammer-based eyelet die from Tandy Leather. My last order to knifekits.com was:

1 x Rivets - (Black) - #8-8 (1/4) - (For .080 KYDEX™/Concealex) (KYSR8-100) = $12.00
2 x Belt Loops - Clip-Over Design (KKCOL) = $16.50
4 x KYDEX™ Sheet - (.08 Black) (KYSHE08) = $19.40

I have enough rivets for quite a few more sheaths, and I have been reusing the belt clips from sheath to sheath, since I can't carry lots of knives at once, so my next order will only be 20-30 bucks for kydex.

Out of that $50 order, I have made sheaths for a Scrapper 5, Rodent Waki, Mr. Mojo, Desert Dogfather, FSH, and I still have enough scraps for a couple of small knives.

Even if it cost me $50 every time I order kydex (it won't), I pay around ten bucks in materials for each sheath.





However, my sheaths are UGLY and crappy. And they take a lot of time to make. But I enjoy working with my hands, especially since I spend a lot of time behind a computer or reading papers at work, so I get both the satisfaction of building something AND save a buttload of money on sheaths.
 
Pic is from this GREAT post by moonwilson:D

scrofasheath.jpg



and this one from Cobalt :thumbup:

PT5Lock.jpg
 
flatlander said:
1)If you knew it was coming then that's called trolling.
2) Hand made versus mass produced
3) This belongs in whine and cheese
4) Banned smiley
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Wow, that was helpful.

It's not trolling, I was not trying to invoke this kind of negative response, but I expected a certain group of people (grumpy knife collectors) would probably chime in exactly how they did. It's the same with gun msg boards, complain or question anything and devotees of certain companies will bury you in the ground because they make false idols out of manufacturers. I come into this as a consumer who appreciates high quality tools who was legitimately wondering why the cost of a sheath was so expensive. My intention was not to bring every angry knife guy out of the wood work. Imagine if this question was asked by someone in real life to you, would you call them a troll, tell them to ask the question elsewhere then proceed to imitate jerking off? Of course not, that kind of childish/anti-social behavior is reserved for the internet.

MustardMan said:
I asked a similar question as yours a while back, 230, and was greeted with the same mix of thoughtful responses and people bashing me for being a cheapskate.
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There were a lot of good responses, then just the same group of people that are everywhere who jump at the chance to try and drown someone for questioning anything about a company they like. Go over on arfcom and say "Hey guys, my magpul stock wobbles a little bit" and there will be 100 groupies telling you to jump in a volcano. It's the same idea.
 
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Your question was "Why are sheaths so expensive". YOU went on to compare them to your mass produced pistol holsters. I would say I answered your question pretty well though not as in depth as others.
Look up what trolling means and I believe I was again correct.
Still believe this was not the right place although you got your answers.
If the same question was poised to me in real life the answer may be different or the same depending on the context it was presented in.
You are not the first, last or only to accuse me of being anti-social so no big deal.
I do apologize for the fourth comment though. I was wrong to use it.
Bottom line is if I buy a $250+ knife I'm not going to worry too much about spending the extra dollars on a good sheath for it. Kind of like putting a high end Wilson 1911 in a Uncle Mike holster.
YMMV
Bob
 
flatlander said:
Your question was "Why are sheaths so expensive". YOU went on to compare them to your mass produced pistol holsters. I would say I answered your question pretty well though not as in depth as others.
Look up what trolling means and I believe I was again correct.
If the same question was poised to me in real life the answer may be different or the same depending on the context it was presented in.
You are not the first, last or only to accuse me of being anti-social so no big deal.
I do apologize for the fourth comment though. I was wrong to use it.
Bottom line is if I buy a $250+ knife I'm not going to worry too much about spending the extra dollars on a good sheath for it. Kind of like putting a high end Wilson 1911 in a Uncle Mike holster.
YMMV
Bob
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Well, I did look up the definition of trolling, and it's exactly how I understood it. From Wiki:
"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[2]"

My post does not fit the bill, sorry. I posted wondering why they're so expensive, and got my answers from a few helpful people. I suggested there should be a cheaper alternative, and also got my answers. There was nothing inflammatory about my post, however yours was filled with anger and aggravation. You then go on to say how you answered my question. No, you simply reiterated the fact that has been stated several times already, custom vs production. You simply threw that in there so you could have an excuse to vent your anger in your life in my post.

As for your analogy about putting a wilson combat in a uncle mikes sheath, I get it. But that said, I'm also putting my 2k + ed brown in a 60 dollar holster that works perfectly. Soon I'll be putting a knife that cost 10% of what my brown costs in a sheath costing similar. No I don't expect to pay only 10% of what my holster costs, but yes it gets frustrating.

A lot of you guys are made of money, I can't afford to just buy endless amounts of knives and guns. I'm a middle class guy, making pretty decent money, but I can't afford to go to a knife show and leave with 20 blades. Buying a knife for 600 dollars is a big purchase for me, that's my truck payment. I'm not single, I can't just buy whatever I want anymore, so it sucks to spend a fortune, then spend even more to be able to use the knife I spent a fortune on. I have no interest in buying knives and throwing them in a drawer, i'll never own a safe queen so every knife I buy will need a sheath so I can get the most of it. I plan to own a bunch of Busse knives, so yes, in the end i'll be spending a small fortune on things needed to make my knife that cost a fortune work.

There is really no need to call anyone who posts anything you don't agree with a troll, I think we may all have different definitions of inflammatory, because your post was a hell of a lot more inflammatory than mine. If you want to troll hunt, do it somewhere else, not in my thread.
 
i would not have a problem putting a wilson 1911 in a uncle mikes holster, i have several uncle mikes holsters and they hold anything from one of my sigs to a couple of smith & wesson wheel guns.

just like i bought several green river sheaths at blade for a ultra low price and they fit the busse knives perfect...
 
230grains said:
Well, I did look up the definition of trolling, and it's exactly how I understood it. From Wiki:
"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[2]"

My post does not fit the bill, sorry. I posted wondering why they're so expensive, and got my answers from a few helpful people. I suggested there should be a cheaper alternative, and also got my answers. There was nothing inflammatory about my post, however yours was filled with anger and aggravation. You then go on to say how you answered my question. No, you simply reiterated the fact that has been stated several times already, custom vs production. You simply threw that in there so you could have an excuse to vent your anger in your life in my post.

As for your analogy about putting a wilson combat in a uncle mikes sheath, I get it. But that said, I'm also putting my 2k + ed brown in a 60 dollar holster that works perfectly. Soon I'll be putting a knife that cost 10% of what my brown costs in a sheath costing similar. No I don't expect to pay only 10% of what my holster costs, but yes it gets frustrating.

A lot of you guys are made of money, I can't afford to just buy endless amounts of knives and guns. I'm a middle class guy, making pretty decent money, but I can't afford to go to a knife show and leave with 20 blades. Buying a knife for 600 dollars is a big purchase for me, that's my truck payment. I'm not single, I can't just buy whatever I want anymore, so it sucks to spend a fortune, then spend even more to be able to use the knife I spent a fortune on. I have no interest in buying knives and throwing them in a drawer, i'll never own a safe queen so every knife I buy will need a sheath so I can get the most of it. I plan to own a bunch of Busse knives, so yes, in the end i'll be spending a small fortune on things needed to make my knife that cost a fortune work.

There is really no need to call anyone who posts anything you don't agree with a troll, I think we may all have different definitions of inflammatory, because your post was a hell of a lot more inflammatory than mine. If you want to troll hunt, do it somewhere else, not in my thread.
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I stand by what I said. Extraneous and inflammatory remarks seem to fit especially when comparing custom to mass produced. Intent on the internet is pretty tough to convey at best.
You want to keep throwing the personal jabs so be it. You have NO idea what my life is like, how much money I make or how I vent my anger because I haven't. You would probably be surprised how much more similar our situations are than they are different.
You can send me a pm or email if you want to continue this chat but I consider the matter done.
Bob
 
stricknine said:
just like i bought several green river sheaths at blade for a ultra low price and they fit the busse knives perfect...
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Those Green River sheaths were an absolute BARGAIN. I wish I had bought a pile of them. Their pouch style sheaths wet-mold very well to small Busse's and end up with really nice retention. I'd love to have a few more of those for stuff like my AD, Boss Street, etc.


3709530033_fdb8bdf667_o.jpg
 
I haven't posted much here lately but apparently feel the need to chime in...

Firstly though I've gotta say THANKS to Rat Finkenstein! :D

Secondly, there are likely quite a few folks here now who don't know I've been a custom sheath maker for 9 years (and have not raised my prices even once). I have been full time intermittently (had to take a few "day jobs" to keep bills paid) but have spent the last 3(?) years safely ensconced in my shop breathing chlorine fumes (from the Kydex) and grinding steel. (BTW, I don't find knife making to be a relaxing pastime. Better than many things I've done, but not by any means relaxing ;))

I think a perfectly reasonable question was asked by the OP and LVC provided a VERY thoughtful and well organized answer...Thank you LVC!

I thought I might add a tidbit of trivia where holsters and sheaths are concerned....

I worked for about 3 1/2 years at Blade Tech (so long ago now that I'm not totally sure of the exact length of my tenure). Interestingly enough, one has to learn to make holsters and/or mag pouches before one gets to even try making a knife sheath. Reason? Knife sheaths are more difficult (so much so that there might be as many as 2 guys -a primary and a secondary- good enough to make custom sheaths that BTI will let out the door)...end of story.

A BTI holster made from Kydex now costs the better part of $60. Most of those are "semi-production" meaning that a craftsman gets to use pre-formed parts, but must do final fit and finish by hand. A fully handmade unit is roughly $70 or more based on a quick look at their web site. The less expensive units ($20-30) are injection molded and made in HUGE quantities.

Now, in direct answer to the OP as to why I don't make a "Scrap Yard" type sheath:

I could use thinner material, cheaper hardware, ignore the finish and put minimal effort into the fit, thereby allowing me to spend a great deal less in time and materials per unit. The difficulty arises when I consider that I've invested considerable effort, time and $ to establish what I hope is a good reputation as a sheath maker. If I make the "Scrap" sheath and that's the only one someone sees.....what then happens to all the hard work I've already done? Some of that could be remedied with advertising, but there again, cost is the issue. That would be the reason I have yet to buy an add in a magazine (the things are bloody expensive). Now how could I re-capture the $....hmmmmm. Well, I could charge more for the sheaths right? Aaaaand I'm back at square one but I have a crappy rep because I let junk out the door with my name on it.

A couple of the reasons "Uncle Gerry" is able to have the less expensive lines are the cost of INFI vs. other materials (SR 101 and S-7) and production methods, some of which were already in place (CNC), and injection molding (which requires capital...which he has).

On a side note I am doing some production style work (OEM), but quantity is much higher for those folks, and they charge full retail for the product in order to make their margin. I also have to make a substantial investment of time and material to make the tooling in order to do those units. (Some folks at Blade '09 know who I'm doing this for)
 
It is all about the quantity. I do quoting at work. If someone asks how much, the first question I ask is how many. The volume of an item dictates the method of manufacture. One or two of anything will cost more per piece than thousands, or hundreds of thousands. At some volume the piece price levels out.
 
mustard man, here ya go, i think this is the correct website for green river, those folks was killer nice people and i have pics that jimmy took of me with their service dog a giant schnauzer. http://greenriverleather.net/ the have phone number on their site that you can call...

yea their sheaths was way to cool for extremely low price and work good to...
 
Oku, thanks for chiming in, that answered my questions perfectly.

As far as "scrapyard" style sheaths, I still like the idea, minus a poor fit, that should be a pivotal selling point. I do see where you're coming from though regarding a bad rep.
 
Thanks Stricknine! I'm glad I managed to behave myself ;)

230,

I understand totally what you want (and wouldn't mind finding it myself for some things), but have to point out that the fit, which is indeed pivotal, is what takes the most work.

What you run into is the difference between (to use a firearms analogy -and I'll stick to 1911s just for you) a Lama, a Springfield and a Wilson. You get what you've paid for. Mind you, if the Lama is all that's available, I'll use it, but only until I can get the Springfield, or better yet, the Wilson. The rub here is that you seem to be looking for a Springfield at the Lama price. Closest I've seen to that ever happening was the original Kimber Custom II's but the price point was still "one pair up" (Wilson for Springfield price).

There is a minimum amount of work required to meet a standard of reasonable functionality and that's where the number of Kydex sheath guys works in your favor. Much like the firearms market, you can get the same type of product with varying amounts of precision, and hopefully, you get to pay accordingly. ;)
 
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