Why Battoning?

Why do we make fires with ferro rods when we have a bix of matches and a Bic in our pocket !:D
 
I baton all the time and consider it a normal part of camp craft. I use it for much more than firewood as well and have NEVER damaged a knife by batoning. I make bow staves by splitting a cut tree with wood wedges or batoning, depending on the wood grain and how seasoned it is. I think that any knife, even the "sharpened prybars" can be broken with bad batoning technique, but at the same time I have batoned the same #2 mora that I carry as a neck knife for nearly ten years and have never damaged it. If proper technique can allow a 3/32 stick tang mora to baton for a decade then it is unreasonable to suggest that it can't be done safely with larger stronger knives. I work outdoors and on many trips find it very inconvenient to carry a hatchet. I prefer a folding saw and a stout fixed blade in the 4-5in range for my daily carry. I love to play with big choppers and use my GB hatchet for bushcraft projects but its simply not convenient to have those thing on me day to day.
We also need to remember that a Froe (the "right" tool) is nothing but a straight knife blade on a 90 degree handle and was the traditional tool used to split wood for centuries.

Here is an 18in long bolt (cut with saw) that was batoned into large kindling with a 1/8in thick scandi edge knife. As you can see, the knife is still plenty sharp after.

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Also, many of us practice friction fire techniques like the bow drill. I can tell you that there is a big difference in a baseboard of kiln dried cedar or poplar from a hardware store and one made from a branch found in the woods that needs to be shaped and flattened on the bottom (batoned) so it doesn't roll.
 
I do it because I think it is fun. The whole reason for me to go to the woods, is to do what I feel like is fun, and to enjoy being out there. It is only a bonus that I get to use the wood to help feed the fire. There is a lot of wood in my back yard that is batoned, as well as some extra wood on a private wood lot that I batoned a little too much to burn. Batoning for me is not really to obtain firewood, rather to enjoy myself. It burns is just a bonus.
 
Lazydog1 said:
To get back to the original question.
Why baton?
Why not, I suppose.
Well, coming from another part of the world (Southern Africa) where I’ve never experienced anybody batonning wood (and we do make a lot of fires down there) this is a whole new experience for me. In fact, I would have no hesitation in saying that if you were to attempt to baton before any South African outdoorsman they would consider you to be “just another crazy American who forgot to bring the right tools”. If we need smaller pieces of wood than that given up by nature then we use saws, choppers or axes. Knives are used for cutting. If we need to hack down anything not suitable for chopping, like sugar cane or thick grass, then we use a panga (which is the local term for a machete). If we hunt really large game like giraffe or elephant then we also do not baton our knives through the large joints. We plan ahead and bring along a chopper and saw for this task. Admittedly, in many areas the wood we use for keeping our fires going is dry and hard, so batonning would probably result in a broken knife. In some areas like Mozambique, Angola or Zambia where the wood may be softer you might be able to baton, but, frankly, I’d still rather use the right tool for the job. For emergency use batonning may be understandable, but as the OP said, just burn the whole branch/tree.
Try batonning with any knife of mine and you’re likely to get a log across the head and you’ll definitely be sleeping outside the tent for the rest of the trip. Good luck with the hyenas.
I’d be interested in what forumites from other parts of the world have to say on the matter. Any Australians here? Cousins in the UK perhaps? Fairer brothers from the Nordics? Phillipinos for that matter?
Click to expand...

I'll give you this Englishman's take then:

I think pitdog threw a pointer out there with, “Why do we make fires with ferro rods when we have a bix of matches and a Bic in our pocket !”

Simple answer – play! Folk often seem to want to dress that up with terms like “training” or “practicing survival” but to my mind they are playing. I'm sure I might meet some resistance to that from those that don't understand that learning can come from play, but play it is. In fact, I could be more precise and say make-believe play. Learning comes through a game of “let's pretend” with what whatever ending you want – Teddy broke his arm, it's the end of the world, zombies are coming, whatever. Obviously if it's your game, your holodeck, it's your rules, and you can fill it out with whatever props you want and nobody can tell you you're wrong. That's exactly what we see and people defend with great gusto the mall ninja knife, felling trees with tomahawks, throwing knives, and so on. Nobody can tell them they're wrong because the game has fuzzy parameters and the goalposts can be changed on a whim to make the tools fit. Exactly the same thing applies to techniques and methods. It might not be what a professional would do but there in lies the difference. A professional is usually after a goal state with anything like gathering firewood or whatever being a chore along the way. Knives, axes, saws and so on are solutions to problems that occur en route. That isn't the same for many people playing. For people playing chopping and battoning are often ends in themselves. Hell, for many people here if it wasn't for woods play they wouldn't be allowed to take their chopping knives outside of their bedrooms.

When I first encountered battoning it was called “chisel cutting”. It was just after the Rambo knife fad had started to fade and small utility knives were starting to come to the fore again. The idea was to make a small knife be able to do some of the tasks of a larger knife. The guy gently drifted a lovely little Frank Deluvio [SP] through an inch thick twig. That's useful. But them we started to see stocky little knives that could take more punishment and the cycle began. Bit like the military “it's got handles so you can carry it”, because you could really clout these little knives it became trendy to clout them. So folk made even thicker stronger ones that could be clouted even harder...and people clouted them harder. Arms race. We're now at the point that many of those devices have become very estranged from precise cutting instruments and even the ones with poor handles and silly shapes cut out of them do not get the pillory they deserve. Providing it can be sent off to be sharpened enough to cut paper, make a fuzz stick, and strong enough to be thrashed on with a mallet all is groovy.

Personally, I don't get into that stuff. I've got no qualms with the gentle chisel cutting thing but wailing on a knife isn't for me. It's not that the knife can't take it, in all probability it can. There was a thread running here in which a member beat on a Mora to cut through a bunch of lead. In that same thread I showed pictures of one of mine I pounded through an eggcup full of lead. No problems. In fact about a month ago I did a similar kind of thing. I was fishing and a ran out of the right size weights. I smacked one of the thin beater knives through a larger one with two hits from a bit of concrete. Nothing bad happened. But as a policy in the woods I want to avoid that with my primary knife just as surely as I won't be throwing it at a tree. I'd rather avoid an unnecessary practice than wish I had. If I'm just playing I doubt a surprise failure would bother me at all. It's my game, my ball, and I can take it home when I like. Most of the time I'm not playing I'm there because I'm doing something purposeful and my knife is with me to solve cutting problems. Breaking it would be another of the dim things I could do with it that would piss me off. I don't like surprises at my expense.

I'm certain there are plenty of other Englishmen with a mileage that varies from this though.
 
ROCK6 said:
I make my son baton as I think it's safer on smaller wood than an axe (when he was younger and didn't posses the proper motor skills to control an axe).
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This reminds me, Cliff Jacobson recommends using a hatchet by batoning it through, for safety.

Marion
 
Lazydog1 said:
...I would have no hesitation in saying that if you were to attempt to baton before any South African outdoorsman they would consider you to be “just another crazy American who forgot to bring the right tools”.
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I don't know what kind of knives you use,

...but plenty of my knives are designed with this kind of use in mind.




To say a knife is not the right tool for anything other then simple handheld cutting really limits it's potential.





Big Mike
 
Lazydog1 said:
In fact, I would have no hesitation in saying that if you were to attempt to baton before any South African outdoorsman they would consider you to be “just another crazy American who forgot to bring the right tools”.
Click to expand...



Hmm, you see I would say, "There goes a guy that knows how to improvise"

:D
 
Anything from the OP or was this just a nice trolling exercise? Well done BTW!






EDIT: Celebrating my 100th post - a 'mile marker' for me. Usually if a Community is replete with idiots i don't hang around. Well done WSS Community!
 
baldtaco-II said:
Simple answer – play! Folk often seem to want to dress that up with terms like “training” or “practicing survival” but to my mind they are playing. I'm sure I might meet some resistance to that from those that don't understand that learning can come from play, but play it is. In fact, I could be more precise and say make-believe play. Learning comes through a game of “let's pretend” with what whatever ending you want – Teddy broke his arm, it's the end of the world, zombies are coming, whatever. Obviously if it's your game, your holodeck, it's your rules, and you can fill it out with whatever props you want and nobody can tell you you're wrong. That's exactly what we see and people defend with great gusto the mall ninja knife, felling trees with tomahawks, throwing knives, and so on. Nobody can tell them they're wrong because the game has fuzzy parameters and the goalposts can be changed on a whim to make the tools fit. Exactly the same thing applies to techniques and methods. It might not be what a professional would do but there in lies the difference. A professional is usually after a goal state with anything like gathering firewood or whatever being a chore along the way. Knives, axes, saws and so on are solutions to problems that occur en route. That isn't the same for many people playing. For people playing chopping and battoning are often ends in themselves. Hell, for many people here if it wasn't for woods play they wouldn't be allowed to take their chopping knives outside of their bedrooms.
Click to expand...

Here we go, getting back into the whole negative mindset again Baldtaco? Come now, watching people rant and call others techniques unprofessional or just 'play' is pretty immature and closed minded. No lumberjack is going to baton their knives. However, people are not intending to do lumberjack activities with their designs. This is a false paradox.

The answer to the OP - why baton? The simple answer is to produce a thread with 100 responses.

It is such a basic method of utility for using your cutlery that it really deserves no explanation. I go out all the time with a 4" blade on my hip and a SAK saw for a day of wonderful hiking. When I need to make a cooking fire, those two tools do everything I need to create my wood. I sometimes use batoning method to split the wood I have, sometimes not. I have to baton in order to create a bowdrill hearth and that is the most often use I have for the technique.

Now, would I baton a stack of firewood when I had an ax next to it the pile? No. However, some would because batoning is easier on your back than swinging an axe which may not be possible for everyone. The great gift of learning how to baton for me was that it allowed me to forego the axe and I only take it when I know I will need to produce copious amounts of wood. Others like to state that you don't even need to baton, just crack the wood in the crotch of a tree as a lever or smash it to pieces. Do what you like and better yet, know multiple ways of processing wood. You might have to improvise when the need arises.

People who baton don't insist that you have to baton, they just understand that it is a skill that can be used at will. I so happen to use it often because of the circumstances that I find myself in. People who insist that you have to carry an entire tool box of stuff out just to enjoy the exact activities that I do with a small fixed blade are the ones who are foolish IMO.
 
fmajor007 said:
EDIT: Celebrating my 100th post - a 'mile marker' for me. Usually if a Community is replete with idiots i don't hang around. Well done WSS Community!
Click to expand...

Congrats on your 100th post, you'll be at 1,000 before you know it :)

The W&SS community doesn't always agree on things but that's what also keeps the discussions interesting.
 
kgd said:
Here we go, getting back into the whole negative mindset again Baldtaco? Come now, watching people rant and call others techniques unprofessional or just 'play' is pretty immature and closed minded. No lumberjack is going to baton their knives. However, people are not intending to do lumberjack activities with their designs. This is a false paradox.

The answer to the OP - why baton? The simple answer is to produce a thread with 100 responses.

It is such a basic method of utility for using your cutlery that it really deserves no explanation. I go out all the time with a 4" blade on my hip and a SAK saw for a day of wonderful hiking. When I need to make a cooking fire, those two tools do everything I need to create my wood. I sometimes use batoning method to split the wood I have, sometimes not. I have to baton in order to create a bowdrill hearth and that is the most often use I have for the technique.

Now, would I baton a stack of firewood when I had an ax next to it the pile? No. However, some would because batoning is easier on your back than swinging an axe which may not be possible for everyone. The great gift of learning how to baton for me was that it allowed me to forego the axe and I only take it when I know I will need to produce copious amounts of wood. Others like to state that you don't even need to baton, just crack the wood in the crotch of a tree as a lever or smash it to pieces. Do what you like and better yet, know multiple ways of processing wood. You might have to improvise when the need arises.

People who baton don't insist that you have to baton, they just understand that it is a skill that can be used at will. I so happen to use it often because of the circumstances that I find myself in. People who insist that you have to carry an entire tool box of stuff out just to enjoy the exact activities that I do with a small fixed blade are the ones who are foolish IMO.
Click to expand...

More interesting than any of that old babble is that you are making it a personal issue again. Had you ever wondered why I tend to avoid engaging with you? The reason is that you make things personal. I had expected better from you. If I persist in expecting better from you it is likely that I'll just be disappointed. So you needn't bother trying to engage with me again because like the others that do that you are now placed in my browsers bozo-bin. Welcome to the scrape-off.
 
This wood was wet outside, but well dry inside...often, if you want to start a fire, you need to do batoning...this is one of the reasons to use this tecnicque with a knife...
Alfredo

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I don't even understand the debate, really. If you want to baton, then baton. Otherwise, don't.

I've been batoning all my life, since long before I knew it had a name, and never thought anything of it. If I need to shape a piece of wood, and batoning works, then that's what I do.

I baton with my bolo or my BK-2, but I sure as heck don't baton with my Vic Farmer. Some tools baton without worry, others don't.

If you want to baton, then do. If you don't, then don't.
 
baldtaco-II said:
More interesting than any of that old babble is that you are making it a personal issue again. Had you ever wondered why I tend to avoid engaging with you? The reason is that you make things personal. I had expected better from you. If I persist in expecting better from you it is likely that I'll just be disappointed. So you needn't bother trying to engage with me again because like the others that do that you are now placed in my browsers bozo-bin. Welcome to the scrape-off.
Click to expand...

So Baldtaco chooses to use language to offend everybody who doesn't agree with him and then puts people on ignore when they call out his Immature Rants for what they are....Sometimes he has positive things to say - but it isn't all that often!
 
Because I don't carry a froe, because at night I think it's safer, because it's lighter and takes up less space than an axe.

Mainly, just because.
 
baldtaco-II said:
More interesting than any of that old babble is that you are making it a personal issue again. Had you ever wondered why I tend to avoid engaging with you? The reason is that you make things personal. I had expected better from you. If I persist in expecting better from you it is likely that I'll just be disappointed. So you needn't bother trying to engage with me again because like the others that do that you are now placed in my browsers bozo-bin. Welcome to the scrape-off.
Click to expand...

Are you still sore that the US tied England???

:D:D:D
 
tonym said:
Are you still sore that the US tied England???

:D:D:D
Click to expand...

I actually wanted you guys to win. I can't abide football. The world cup used to be great because it meant a month of other people's women going begging. Now I don't want them I've no use for it at all. :)
 
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