Why Battoning?

1.) Battoning is fun.
2.) I stabbed myself in the leg with a branch I split off a dead tree when the limb split and gave way unexpectedly.
3.) I got slapped in the face with another branch while trying to snap it from a fallen log.
4.) I do not always have or want a hatchet with me.
5.) It is always good to practice alternative methods of doing anything. Field expedience is essential.
 
Well spoken MDP.

I'm begining to lose patience with those who initiate caustic posts against others. Like you, I used to be a voice of calm. Now, i'm merely responding in the manner presented.

I'll behave and try to regain composure.
 
I'm open to either, but being old school, there's an Estwing axe in the trunk of my car.
 
fmajor007 said:
Well, tbh, i've seen enough droll flame-inducing threads and thread-starters to simply call it to attention to the group en masse to raise awareness to the potential of absurdity.

You're also part of the "anything constructive from you, or was this just an effortless response?" group btw. Why are you shooting off your mouth when you're doing what you're accusing others (active participants) of doing?

Maybe you need to learn to shut up more or go do your homework, play your xbox, mow the lawn like your dad keeps reminding you to do or really anything positive instead of trying to drag us all down your *hit-hole of negativity.

No one wants to hear it sweetheart.

EDIT: My filter for sad, pathetic responses is now active, so it will remove any trite response you make and place it on the appropriate bin.
Click to expand...

Hi Fmajor007,
you're absolutely right. Encouraging less combative responses is equally inflamatory as branding someone a troll.

I will indeed shut up more, do my homework, buy an xbox, move back home and mow the lawn.
Thanks for your measured response to my post.
I think I'm done round here. The schoolyard antics are getting a little trite.

Night all.
 
Marion David Poff said:
Gentlemen.

Let's agree to disagree, if we cannot see things the same way.

Let's rejoice that there is enough diversity that we can have these diverting little discussions, with the just a hint of the piquant.

Let's not take to the line, and see infractions.

Let's not go the distance, and get the thread shut down.

We don't have to take to the mats. We can all still be friends.

Almost all of these disagreements can be chalked up to mis-understanding. And it really is not worth showing your derriere. Though that can be a very diverting Image seach, if you you are not careful.

Some do, some don't... That's OK.

And if we keep the thread open, by keeping our cool, somebody might learn something.....


Best,
Marion
Click to expand...

There's more than a grain of truth wisdom in that post.

I suspect my mention of 'play' invoked a similar kind of response as like when I drew a parallel between one journalist and Kate Aide. Had the respondent understood that Katie Aide was one of the most celebrated journalists on the global stage, so often at the front line in conflict situations peers often joked that she was a jinx, and one that was awarded the Order of the British Empire [OBE] for her services he may have been a lot less lippy. Same here I suspect – if one were to use a good survival strategy, keep a calm head and all that, comprehension could be a bit better. Play is a complicated topic ranging from simple early childhood stuff right through to sophisticated adult games like chess. There's a wealth of papers out there on play; types of play, the functions of play, stage and process theories and so on. To wade in guns blazing with a back-of-a-fag-packet understanding does a disservice to oneself and is disrespectful to the forum. Like I said, some of what I do in the woods is play. There is no shame in that and there is no insult. A bit of learning could have worked wonders.


.....

To clarify my position on the battoning thing – I'm not in principle opposed to it, I am just averse to doing it with my primary knife. A lot of the year I use a golok in preference to an ax and I've got no problem giving that a bit of a smack if ever the need arises. It doesn't have the properties of an excellent cutting instrument and is built to be tough. For my primary knife to be as well suited it would likely be of a high maintenance steel, hardened specifically for toughness rather than edge retention, and have a thickness and edge angle that would reduce its performance as a cutting instrument. In short, for me it is more sensible to have one knife tuned to be a good utility knife, that I won't batton, or throw, or dig in the ground with, and something else as a beater. The thing is, if I know I'll need something else too, rather than just press something in to service at a pinch, I can also pick from the saw and ax. Whatever way round, and despite pounding kitchen beaters through lead successfully or having clubbed an old SOG that doesn't have anything like a full tang pretty relentlessly without failure, I avoid clouting my primary knife to avoid nasty surprises. I believe that's a good policy for me to follow. Opening the flood gates with blanket approval that battoning your primary knife fine and dandy sure has paved the way for many a failure. Even here I'm sure we've all seen pictures mangled edges, catastrophic failures and everything in between resulting from knives being used for practices other than cutting. Many of those knives have been pretty darn big and solid too. Of course there is a school of thought that a knife isn't principally a cutting tool and should be made in such a way that one could pound it through a grit encrusted railway sleeper with a club hammer, and if the knife breaks or the edge gets gnarly the knife must be at fault. If that's the tint on your glasses then good luck with that. As an Englishman I was asked to express my opinion so I gave it. Don't get all emotional if you see things differently. It's got to be as futile to have a tantrum here as it would be to do that in any of the hypothetical survival scenarios. Man in some of those such behavior would find you in the cooking pot first. Search for the hero inside yourself. Chill some, innit.
 
No trolling at all, i'm just reading your answers. I see now that battoning is a good thing to have in the toolbox. The reason why is asked was because i keep seeing threads like " i broke my new.... knife battoning", and then everyone shimes in telling how much a shame it is that such or such a knife is not able to withstand simple battoning. Then they show a picture where you see a knifeblade embedded in a well seasoned foot wide diameter log or a timber sleeper. I always wonder why they keep using there only way of cutting ( and possible survival) in such a tricky way. And why do people expect their knife to be able to withstand these types of battoning. It's ok if you want to see if it's possible to do it with your new knife, but don't complaint when i breaks.
I see now that battoning is usefull to get dry kindle from the inside of smaller branches say an arms width, but why do i keep seeing people pounding their expensive knives thru big wooden logs? I wondered why they do this? Is there an inherent benefit for it, or can you expect any outdoor knife be able to withstand this "abuse"?
That was the reason for my question.
If an honest question is seen as trolling because you see something beeing done, and you ask why because you don't understand the reason why people batton LARGE wooden objects, the problem is that i am stuck with a question without a good balanced answer.
If the simple quetion on battoning is enough to start a flamewar, it's a sad thing. Every knowledge and experience we have is build on the experience of others and my question was genuine.
The reason for my question are the numerous post of broken knives after an attempt to baton an outdoor knife. Everyone was complaining about the lack of quality and how suprise they were when my feeling was that of, if you engage in an risky activity the posibility of breakage is always there. If you can split a tree with pounding simple wooden wedges in the tree the forces wood can excert with wood are enormous. So the risk of breaking a knife is always present when battoning. Thats why i asked why everyone starts battoning with there new knife? And why they feel it's a warranty issue when their knife breaks

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=724977&highlight=knife+broke+batoning
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=721550&highlight=knife+broke+batoning
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=684437&highlight=knife+broke+batoning
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641679&highlight=knife+broke+batoning
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=647925&highlight=knife+broke+batoning
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=609283&highlight=knife+broke+batoning
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=546706&highlight=knife+broke+batoning
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=360675&highlight=knife+broke+batoning
 
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Jim malone said:
No trolling at all, i'm just reading your answers. I see now that battoning is a good thing to have in the toolbox. The reason why is asked was because i keep seeing threads like " i broke my new.... knife battoning", and then everyone shimes in telling how much a shame it is that such or such a knife is not able to withstand simple battoning. Then they show a picture where you see a knifeblade embedded in a well seasoned foot wide diameter log or a timber sleeper. I always wonder why they keep using there only way of cutting ( and possible survival) in such a tricky way. And why do poeple expect their knife to be able to withstand these types of battoning. It's ok if you want to see if it's possible to do it with your new knife, but don't complaint when i breaks.
I see now that battoning is usefull to get dry kindle from the inside of smaller branches say an arms width, but why do i keep seeing people pounding their expensive knives thru big wooden logs? I wondered why they do this? Is there an inherent benefit for it, or can you expect any outdoor knife be able to withstand this "abuse"?
That was the reason for my question.
Click to expand...

Where are these threads with which you speak ? I think I have only ever seen maybe two knives that broke when battoning and neither of them were a full tang. One was a Cold steel ' Trailmaster ' I think and the guy was using it in sub zero temps on frozen wood. The other I believe was a Mora, not exactly the knife I'd reach to for splitting a log !
 
see above for answer.. it seems i opened up a can of worms on my question regarding battoning.
Never knew it was such a sensitive area. Please forget about my question.
 
I wonder how many axes or hatchets have had a broken handle from chopping wood, and those are tools "made for the job".

Just sayin'....
 
MustardMan said:
I have never broken a blade batoning, and I've done a lot of it. The closest I came was to damage the guard of a knife with a poorly designed guard - for my troubles finding the issue in a "tester" version of the knife, I was banned from a forum right around the time a fix for the issue was released, while charging extra for the fix and denying there was any issue to begin with (WTF??)
Click to expand...

Interesting, I'll say, your take on it. I didn't think that was why you were banned. :rolleyes:
 
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MustardMan said:
How many times do we have to re-hash this discussion?
Click to expand...


I think we're up to about twice a week now. :cool:

The arguments are always the same and once the reasons are exhausted we usually devolve into a name calling flamefest.

Here's the simple answer for any subsequent batoning thread:

"Batoning, why?"

Because. That's, why.



Marion David Poff said:
Gentlemen.

Let's agree to disagree, if we cannot see things the same way.

Let's rejoice that there is enough diversity that we can have these diverting little discussions, with the just a hint of the piquant.

Let's not take to the line, and see infractions.

Let's not go the distance, and get the thread shut down.

We don't have to take to the mats. We can all still be friends.

Almost all of these disagreements can be chalked up to mis-understanding. And it really is not worth showing your derriere. Though that can be a very diverting Image seach, if you you are not careful.

Some do, some don't... That's OK.

And if we keep the thread open, by keeping our cool, somebody might learn something.....


Best,
Marion
Click to expand...

You just need to shut right the eff up, Mister Mansy. Now see here, you're making sense and that just will not do. Can't have it. The next time you have a rational thought like this...just let it go. :p:D



Now. Where were we before Mister Rationality interrupted us?

Oh yes...

Let's talk about something else. Say...having to pay for the services of S.A.R.?

::takes off running::
 
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Hi Jim -

Sincere apologies. I wasn't meaning to call you out for being a troll, just hoping (and wondering if) you were going to participate.

I'm sure you've seen a few "heated" discussions where someone poses a question regarding a controversial topic for the sole purpose of watching the gore. In those specific instances, the OP never participates in the discussion and it's a downer to all those buried in the fray.

Not knowing you and since i had not seen you posting i was curious if this was going to be one of "those" topics.
 
BillyJoeBobJim said:
Interesting, I'll say, your take on it. I didn't think that was why you were banned. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

You're right - I was banned because I specifically asked the moderators to do so, after I was given a one week "time out", and I realized I had no desire to be a part of that community after how disgusted I was at how the situation was handled. I'm not the only person who had the exact same issue with the poor design, I'm just the only one who refused to back down when I was accused of not knowing how to use my blades ;)'

I'd rather be banned than be a fanboy. All it would have taken to shut me up was an admission that the modification was done because the knife design was poorly suited for the way certain people use their blades. Instead the owners of the company insulted me, called me at home to yell at me, and treated me like an idiot who doesn't know how to use a knife.




I actually still like the knives and will continue to purchase the designs that catch my fancy, but I won't play the games or be a part of the community.
 
pitdog said:
Where are these threads with which you speak ? I think I have only ever seen maybe two knives that broke when battoning and neither of them were a full tang. One was a Cold steel ' Trailmaster ' I think and the guy was using it in sub zero temps on frozen wood. The other I believe was a Mora, not exactly the knife I'd reach to for splitting a log !
Click to expand...

Hi Pitdog -

Do you have a link to the instance of the Trailmaster breaking - i'm interested in not doing that to mine!!!

I've read about and seen a video of a CS Recon Scout tang breaking in very similar conditions you mention - catastropic failure. That would really stink.
 
MustardMan said:
You're right - I was banned because I specifically asked the moderators to do so, after I was given a one week "time out", and I realized I had no desire to be a part of that community after how disgusted I was at how the situation was handled. I'm not the only person who had the exact same issue with the poor design, I'm just the only one who refused to back down when I was accused of not knowing how to use my blades ;)'

I'd rather be banned than be a fanboy. All it would have taken to shut me up was an admission that the modification was done because the knife design was poorly suited for the way certain people use their blades. Instead the owners of the company insulted me, called me at home to yell at me, and treated me like an idiot who doesn't know how to use a knife.




I actually still like the knives and will continue to purchase the designs that catch my fancy, but I won't play the games or be a part of the community.
Click to expand...

WOW, I wasn't aware of that. However, you don't appear to have handled the situation with any objective innocence either.

Oh well, I appreciate you providing your rendition of the happenings.
 
fmajor007 said:
Hi Pitdog -

Do you have a link to the instance of the Trailmaster breaking - i'm interested in not doing that to mine!!!

I've read about and seen a video of a CS Recon Scout tang breaking in very similar conditions you mention - catastropic failure. That would really stink.
Click to expand...

It may well have been a Recon scout buddy, it was a long while ago and I can just remember the knife laying broken on a stump. If I find it I'll post the link.

Found it:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=328256
 
pitdog said:
It may well have been a Recon scout buddy, it was a long while ago and I can just remember the knife laying broken on a stump. If I find it I'll post the link.
Click to expand...

Wasn't that done by Nuttinfancy? If I remember correctly, it was actually a buddy of his, but he was there. About a year ago, I think.
 
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