Why do people knock 440C so readily???

J

J.Davey

Joined
Feb 10, 2004
Messages
1,620
(this is from a reply I put in another thread)

Why do people jump so quickly to knock 440C??? It hasn't been around for so long for nothing, and a lot of custom makers still use it. Have you ever looked at it's composition? High carbon, enough chrome...you get the point. Or maybe not, considering. As 1095 seems to be the old, reliable stand-by for carbon steels, 440C is the same for stainless. Are there better steels out there? Duh. Of course there are, but I have a feeling that the majority of people that knock it would praise it as the new super-steel if you made up a new name for it.:foot:

440C from a reputable producer is a great steel when properly heat treated, just like almost any other high carbon alloy.
 
I like 440C. Takes and holds a good edge. Very good corrosion resistance. Can be mirror polished if you like that sort of thing. However, I find 154CM available more often in the same range of knives. I like it, too. I have a few with S30V and frankly the 154CM works just as well for me.
 
440C hearkens back to the 70's I believe. So even though it's a perfectly good steel (when heat treated properly), it has that "old" stigma that some people will never be able to get past. It's like so many other things where only the latest-and-greatest will do. The kind of people that need the golf clubs that Tiger uses, or will only race bikes that Lance rides. Even though the equipment far exceeds their actual abilities.

I'm kinda half-and-half with 440C. I have a few knives in 440C (Benchmade Bali-songs), and find that it works just fine. But the other half of me still says "why bother with 440C when better is available?"

OTOH, there's companies like Taylor Cutlery that make knives under recognizable names (like Smith and Wesson), use 440C steel, and their knives are horrible junk. This can give 440C and unwarranted bad name.
 
Planterz said:
OTOH, there's companies like Taylor Cutlery that make knives under recognizable names (like Smith and Wesson), use 440C steel, and their knives are horrible junk. This can give 440C and unwarranted bad name.
Click to expand...

What is worse some china no-name companies name 8cr13mov as 440C.
Sloppy QC, sloppy HT and 440c will loose its name.
 
I think you hit it bang on.

440C needs a new name to so it is not associated with the others in the 440 series.

Of course looking down on 440C could be elitism as well.
 
My favorite EDC blade, the BM 527, is in 440C and I have been very happy with it. I certainly couldn't tell the difference between that and 154CM which is BM's new "go-to" steel.
 
i have a lot of knives made by art summers that are 440c and they are cutting machines. i have the only 2 tanto knives he has ever made and the larger one went right through a deer leg in 1 swing and the edge was unhurt. like j.davey said, its all in the heat treat. when done properly it makes for a good knife.
 
Manufacturers want you to think its not "sexy".

Then they can charge a jacked up price to the people hooked on the newest supersteel.

hookedFish.jpg


They are trying to make money. Stop the presses.

Same holds for AUS-8.
 
I don't feel under-steeled when I carry 440C at all but the "440" stigma is certianly there in the knife world these days
 
I am with you guys. Well heat-treated 440C makes for an excellent steel and I think the others who responded above me pretty much nailed the reasons for the disdain.

All I can say is that I do not look down my nose at a knife made with 440C. It can be an excellent performer and take a good amount of stress in addition it cleans up well cosmetically for those who place importance on that.
 
I've only been on the forum for a short amount of time but I haven't read any real knocks about 440C. This is an old steel compared to the many we hear about around here but this doesn't make it a bad steel. Randall Made Knives has used 440C for many years and you can't ask for a better reference than that. I've had a couple of knives make out of 440C that performed just fine in just about all catagories and these were inexpensive knives. Only time will tell if the steels we talk about today will hold the longevity of our old tried and true stainless steels like 440C and AUS-8A and Carbon steels like 1095 and 01.

And anyways the differences in most steels is so subtle that the average knife user would never notice the difference. Those of us around here are a different breed. lol;)

Bill
 
J.Davey said:
Why do people jump so quickly to knock 440C??? It hasn't been around for so long for nothing,
Click to expand...
It is 40 years old steel. Might've been top notch back in its days, but as you yourself admit, there are better steels today.


J.Davey said:
Have you ever looked at it's composition? High carbon, enough chrome...you get the point. Or maybe not, considering.
Click to expand...
I do look a lot at steel compositions, and I don't get your point. Enough chrome for what? 440A is more stain resistant, and so is 420, is that the only criteria? 0.95-1.10 is high carbon, but there's other alloys with higher C content, again, that alone determines something?


J.Davey said:
As 1095 seems to be the old, reliable stand-by for carbon steels, 440C is the same for stainless. Are there better steels out there? Duh.
Click to expand...
And point is? Let's skip better steels out there, because some 40-60 years old steels can still cut?


J.Davey said:
Of course there are, but I have a feeling that the majority of people that knock it would praise it as the new super-steel if you made up a new name for it.:foot:
Click to expand...
Really? Based on what? Do you believe new name will give the ability to harden it to 64 HRC and be able to hold working edge at 10deg. per side?

J.Davey said:
440C from a reputable producer is a great steel when properly heat treated, just like almost any other high carbon alloy.
Click to expand...
That's super vague. Great steel... For what? And great compared to what? Carbon steels? How about you compare it to stainless steels? How about comparing it to CPM S110V, or S30V, or ZDp-189, let's say for light cutting... There's nothing great about 440C, it's performance simply sucks compared to those. So, what is the reason I'd have to pick 440C over one of those? Because it was great in 1970?

I disagree about it being so great today, it was great in 70s, not in 2010.
There are far better choices out there today. I see absolutely no reason to cling onto old alloys, they do belong in budget knives, but not in high end.
That has nothing to do with elitism, but simple fact that outdated materials and technologies cost less.
 
I have always wondered about this obsession people have with blade steels. As long as it is above AUS8 that is good enough for me. I buy knives I am interested in the steel that is available. Blade steel is a pretty low factor in deciding what I want to buy.
 
People always need to have something (or someone) to look down on. Plus, it's been around for a while and has been eclipsed by the latest and greatest.

I think its funny that people don't act the same about plain ol' 1095. Yeesh, that's stuff's been around forever. And with O1 and A2 and 52100 why would you ever want to use a simple steel like 1095? Why? How about because it works?

I'm 46 years old and have spent a good portion of my life using knives. I don't think I can recall ever facing a cutting task that couldn't be handled by a 440C blade. The fact that the snobbery has driven its price down is just a plus. If Spyderco made two identical versions of the Military, one with S30V and one with 440C, but priced the $440C model at 75%, which one do you think would sell more?

440C has a place in the cutlery world.
 
I can sum it up by saying there are some very famous and in demand makers who have been using 440C as part of their line-up for decades.

That says far more to me than forum fanboyism ever will. :)


Tostig
 
There are more modern and better steels than 440C, as Gator said, and I am also partial to older or more basic steels that have been forged ( etc) by talented smiths. But I have knives of 440C that really are outstanding, and a couple by George Tichbourne come to mind. There's a Carson U2 dive knife out of 440C I have been eyeing for weeks. Unlike talonite or stellite it will rust, but not as badly as some of the "supersteels", and it sure doesn't cost as much as stellite or the more exotic steels .
I don't know if it's the heat treat or the limited demands I put on them ( I do not put them through what my Busses go through, for example), but in the right hands they can make a very fine knife. George's knives in particular shine up so bright I think they can be seen from space ;)
 
Anything with 1% carbon is going to perform well in the cutting category (assuming proper heat treat of course). 440C is one of the best cutting/edge retaining low cost stainless steels out there. It's definately a step up from AUS8 and 12c27 which are also popular low cost SS, and not too many people complain about those.
 
440c may not be a great steel , but it's more than adequate for what knives are normally used for. I think the manufacturers are abandoning it because they have to offset the costs of developing new 'stainless' steels.

But obviously these new stainless steels are not there yet. We don't see a lot of proven fixed blades over 5" with these 'better' stainless steels.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top