Why do people like 1095 for pricier knives?

[RX-79G]

Price does not = Better.

Gold would be the best blade steel then????

Many of the reasons why people like to use a certain knife steel has nothing to do with charts and graphs....

Personal experience, comfort, intended use, perceived sharpen-ability, lots of intangible tangibles that are far more valid than what a chart may say.

These things are real and important, and they also effect the overall value of that steel and not just it's raw cost.

I would pay more for a folder that was made using 52100 then one using S30V.......

Expensive compared to inexpensive 1095. Not expensive as it's only attribute. And the more expensive steel I'm talking about is 52100.

 

[RX-79G]

Yes. I see no mention of 'toughest' there. For what I did with it, it was incredibly tough. Is that relative to a machete made out of O1? No. Is that relative to my prior blade experiences? Yes.

Okay, so now you're agreeing with me.

After trying the ad hominem route, you're now disagreeing with me by agreeing?

Pretty sly. :thumbup:

 

[KingMC]

Now tell me when Ontario offers an 18in machete in O1 and I'll base further opinions after using it.

They don't offer one? Why not? The only added cost is the steel right? Surely it'd only be $5 more per machete, if the increase is 15%. Why haven't they done this years ago?

 

[KingMC]

you still haven't shown me any major company to be using 1095 and charging over $100 besides ESEE/Ritter.

Are there any others that fall in your 'pricier' realm or was that just a theoretical situation made up to stimulate conversation?

 

[stabman]

you still haven't shown me any major company to be using 1095 and charging over $100 besides ESEE/Ritter.

Well, there is TOPS.
They ARE pricier, and I have some of their knives.
They also have some good designs (and some silly ones, let's be honest), and use a differential heat treat on their blades.

I use the hell out of mine.

They have some knives in 5160 as well, but not multiple steel options for the same design.

 

[sirupatespecial]

Why do people like 1095 for pricier knives?

Cause it works? Cause for 99% of the people that actually use knives, they won't be able to tell the difference? Because it's been used for years? Because it takes a good patina and makes a beautiful laminated blade? Because it's easy to grind? Because it's relatively forgiving with the heat treat? Many reasons.

If "the best" knives were only made of a single steel then what steel would that be? M390? Based on the numbers....Couldn't we do without any other steels then? Just narrow it down to "the best" and everyone would now have the best knife possible. Damn the cost. Or other properties of the steel.

Stellite? Yea. That's the ticket. Heck if edge holding is your thing then some kind of ceramic? Titanium? Well, it doesn't rust.

There have been many, many, many posts that answer the question "why do people like 1095 for pricier knive" Many. You just don't like the answers. So, it looks like you posted the OP just to be argumentative. If you ask a question and already have your answer in your mind then what is the point?

 

[KingMC]

Well, there is TOPS.
They ARE pricier, and I have some of their knives.
They also have some good designs (and some silly ones, let's be honest), and use a differential heat treat on their blades.

I use the hell out of mine.

They have some knives in 5160 as well, but not multiple steel options for the same design.

I was forgetting them, good call.

But you aren't paying for the steel with them, but rather the design and the work put into them.

 

[stabman]

I was forgetting them, good call.

But you aren't paying for the steel with them, but rather the design and the work out into them.

Exactly.
I never felt ripped off.
With the exchange rate, I wouldn't be grabbing any right now though!

 

[RX-79G]

Why do people like 1095 for pricier knives?

Cause it works? Cause for 99% of the people that actually use knives, they won't be able to tell the difference? Because it's been used for years? Because it takes a good patina and makes a beautiful laminated blade? Because it's easy to grind? Because it's relatively forgiving with the heat treat? Many reasons.

If "the best" knives were only made of a single steel then what steel would that be? M390? Based on the numbers....Couldn't we do without any other steels then? Just narrow it down to "the best" and everyone would now have the best knife possible. Damn the cost. Or other properties of the steel.

Stellite? Yea. That's the ticket. Heck if edge holding is your thing then some kind of ceramic? Titanium? Well, it doesn't rust.

There have been many, many, many posts that answer the question "why do people like 1095 for pricier knive" Many. You just don't like the answers. So, it looks like you posted the OP just to be argumentative. If you ask a question and already have your answer in your mind then what is the point?

I haven't rejected a single answer. I proposed many of them, right in the OP. I agree that people like it, trust it, have positive associations with it and "pricier" is entirely relative. And I've stated so, many times.

The only thing I've rejected is misinformation about metallurgy, and so have other knowledgeable people.


Can you post an example of the rejection you're talking about?

 

[KingMC]

You can't learn anything of value from one anecdotal experience. If your machete was made of 52100, it would have held up just as well at higher hardness. But you don't have a 52100 machete to compare it with, so you've decided you have the finest machete on earth from your sample size of one (1).

I don't understand why you fail to see the problem with that. Or why you think 42 and I are lying to you. Or any of the other reference materials you have chosen not to read.

Do you honestly feel that this was a measure of anything to do with alloys? If the ESEE had been the one to break, would you have posted that on this thread in support of the OP?


I don't think ESEE or Becker have a rash of broken knives.

That may be. I just don't see what broken knives have to do with the value question or explanation of how alloys do or don't work.

I haven't rejected a single answer. I proposed many of them, right in the OP. I agree that people like it, trust it, have positive associations with it and "pricier" is entirely relative. And I've stated so, many times.

The only thing I've rejected is misinformation about metallurgy, and so have other knowledgeable people.


Can you post an example of the rejection you're talking about?

These don't count?

 

[RX-79G]

These don't count?

Nope. They aren't explanations about the cost, value, perception or any of the other factors that determine why people generally choose one steel in preference to another.

Instead, that is a one broken knife (he mustn't be a Beckerhead like you) and you insisting that your one machete experience means that 1095 is tougher than low alloy steels.

Are you saying that people choose 1095 because Beckers have a reputation for breaking?

Are you saying anything at all?


I will say that your posts demonstrate (but do not explain) one of the largest factors in consumer behavior: Ignorance.

 

[KingMC]

You're blind to any other ways of making a personal choice with regards to which knives you own, and that's crippling your ability to functionally communicate with others. You care about numbers, others care about personal testimonies. You are in the minority, sorry.

Have you even met fans of ESEE? Quite a lot of them choose ESEE due to their 1095 functioning better than Becker's 1095cv, including but not limited to breaking less often. Sure they're all personal opinions, but they are not invalid ways of making a choice about which knives to buy

 

[sirupatespecial]

Sigh.........

If metallurgy were the only thing we were talking about then of course no one would "like" 1095. Or 52100. Or 5160. Or 1075. Or 1080. Heck s30v,elmax, any other steel other than "the best". Whatever that means to you.

Here's an idea. Why don't you just go ahead and spill the beans on your "best knife steel" and then everyone can go ahead and tear down your arguments for it. That sounds fair.

Oh, BTW. My "best" choice is 52100. Based on my experience with it. Or 3v. I've an 01 chopper I really like. And that AEB-L chefs knife....Can we talk now about how AEB-L sucks?

One of my rough use knives is a "Chute knife" by Ted Frizzell. Sharpened pry bar, I know. But that's why I bought it. 5160. I paid $75 I think. Teds 5160, I wish someone would test it, is pretty dang hard. I also own one of his hatchets that has been pretty indestructible. Wouldn't 5160 be a "lessor" steel than 1095?

 

[RX-79G]

You're blind to any other ways of making a personal choice with regards to which knives you own, and that's crippling your ability to functionally communicate with others. You care about numbers, others care about personal testimonies. You are in the minority, sorry.

Have you even met fans of ESEE? Quite a lot of them choose ESEE due to their 1095 functioning better than Becker's 1095cv, including but not limited to breaking less often. Sure they're all personal opinions, but they are not invalid ways of making a choice about which knives to buy

I think I get what you're saying. You want something visceral, personal and ultimately meaningless:

My personal favorite:

When reason fails, we always have anecdotes and emotion.

 

[KingMC]

*I* don't want anything, you're the one trying to prove a point.

You already showed me I made the right choice by so delicately explaining how Beckers don't have 1095 and are therefore out of the comparison discussion, removing my only reason to care about your opinion of 1095. Now I'm just trying to get you to understand that you're alone in this pointless venture to try and prove to the masses that 1095 isn't worth their hard-earned money, if they would only listen to your wisdom and heed your teachings.

You've only succeeded in proving that you're a deaf narcissist who can't stop talking until he's sure the other side knows they're wrong, screw listening to them and their reasons for caring about steel, you're the one who hold all the knowledge and isn't afraid to dispense on on any who try and stand in your way.

 

[RX-79G]

Sigh.........

If metallurgy were the only thing we were talking about then of course no one would "like" 1095. Or 52100. Or 5160. Or 1075. Or 1080. Heck s30v,elmax, any other steel other than "the best". Whatever that means to you.

Here's an idea. Why don't you just go ahead and spill the beans on your "best knife steel" and then everyone can go ahead and tear down your arguments for it. That sounds fair.

Oh, BTW. My "best" choice is 52100. Based on my experience with it. Or 3v. I've an 01 chopper I really like. And that AEB-L chefs knife....Can we talk now about how AEB-L sucks?

You seem to both understand the problem, and have misread or not read anything I said about it.


1095 is a very good steel. Of high carbon steels, it gets the job done for the least amount of money. An inexpensive steel.

Low alloy steels like 52100 are better (not best), but cost slightly more. They may be a better choice for knives that aren't inexpensive, since they offer a performance upgrade over 10XX steels but aren't particularly expensive as materials or to work with over 1095. A simple upgrade for a mid to upper priced knife.

CPM 3V is one of the very best carbon steels. It costs a lot to both buy and make knives out of. You should knot expect to find it on less expensive knives.


Which of those statements do you object to?

 

[RX-79G]

*I* don't want anything, you're the one trying to prove a point.

You already showed me I made the right choice by so delicately explaining how Beckers don't have 1095 and are therefore out of the comparison discussion, removing my only reason to care about your opinion of 1095. Now I'm just trying to get you to understand that you're alone in this pointless venture to try and prove to the masses that 1095 isn't worth their hard-earned money, if they would only listen to your wisdom and heed your teachings.

You've only succeeded in proving that you're a deaf narcissist who can't stop talking until he's sure the other side knows they're wrong, screw listening to them and their reasons for caring about steel, you're the one who hold all the knowledge and isn't afraid to dispense on on any who try and stand in your way.

I am relieved to hear that you have not been trying to make any point.

 

[KingMC]

You misunderstood me: I kept you talking because you were making my point for me by continuing to post. consider my point well made.

 

[RX-79G]

You misunderstood me: I kept you talking because you were making my point for me by continuing to post. consider my point well made.

I'm glad you were wrecking the thread for no reason. Commendable.

 

[KingMC]

You should start a new thread: "Becker is better than ESEE, and here's why"