Why Does Everyone Think 1095 is Tough?

Shotgun said:
This guy thinks batoning is abusive but then chops and stabs with his knife? He also thinks that the knife is his primary survival tool even though he seems to favor his saw for the heavy lifting. I also wonder why he’d bother to make a wedge when you can split the wood without it. Or why he’s using a wedge that thick. Mostly, I wonder why he’d opt for expending MORE time and energy using a technique that even he struggles with trying to disprove another technique that he has a knife fully capable of doing. Why would you carry that knife if not to have batoning on the menu... Too many people on YouTube trying to teach stuff they don’t understand.

Batoning to split wood like that isn’t abusive and not really all that stressful on the knife. It’s also not damaging to the edge either as the edge is typically untouched by the wood after the initial couple of taps. You can do it with a thin mora. The only people arguing the baton vs. no baton are people who can’t realize there’s more then one way to skin a cat or what their equipment is capable of.

As to the topic at hand, 1095 is cheap and tough enough for most things. I wouldn’t choose it for an edc where I encounter cardboard but for the woods you really don’t need something super tough if the heat treat and geometry are right. And that’s for me who knows about steel. To the vast majority of the people out there, 1095 may be the best steel they’ve ever tried and because it does what they need it’s therefore the best. I think it’s a perspective thing.
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I wish I could like this post more than once! Also, why are there so many monkeys in this thread, and why do they hate batonning so much? I mean, I like monkeys and it's fine that that don't like batonning, just wondering if I smell like bananas or something...
 
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Well it’s been 40+ years since I’ve had much experience with 1095. During my teens my family had a leather shop/ boots and saddles and shoe repair. We had some 1095 knives and various cutting tools that did well in some uses but we got some stainless knives that did much better for a lot of cutting tasks. I can’t remember what particular stainless it was but it was much more wear resistant and it didn’t rust with the acidic leathers. I think most of the knives in our kitchens back then were the Old Hickory or Chicago cutlery of some kind of non stainless. I don’t remember anyone saying anything about how tough they were but how they took a real good edge and easier to sharpen than stainless.

I kinda think this bushcraft stuff and the toughness issues are more recent times ideas than anything but I do remember folks talking about fighting knives back in the 1960s and some being stronger and tougher than others. Which most were likely heat tempering issues than the steel types. Again it relative to the overall design and heat treatment and usage.
 
Shotgun said:
This guy thinks batoning is abusive but then chops and stabs with his knife? He also thinks that the knife is his primary survival tool even though he seems to favor his saw for the heavy lifting. I also wonder why he’d bother to make a wedge when you can split the wood without it. Or why he’s using a wedge that thick. Mostly, I wonder why he’d opt for expending MORE time and energy using a technique that even he struggles with trying to disprove another technique that he has a knife fully capable of doing. Why would you carry that knife if not to have batoning on the menu... Too many people on YouTube trying to teach stuff they don’t understand.

Batoning to split wood like that isn’t abusive and not really all that stressful on the knife. It’s also not damaging to the edge either as the edge is typically untouched by the wood after the initial couple of taps. You can do it with a thin mora. The only people arguing the baton vs. no baton are people who can’t realize there’s more then one way to skin a cat or what their equipment is capable of.

As to the topic at hand, 1095 is cheap and tough enough for most things. I wouldn’t choose it for an edc where I encounter cardboard but for the woods you really don’t need something super tough if the heat treat and geometry are right. And that’s for me who knows about steel. To the vast majority of the people out there, 1095 may be the best steel they’ve ever tried and because it does what they need it’s therefore the best. I think it’s a perspective thing.
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He was demonstrating that you can use your knife to make a tool to split wood, rather than risk your knife being broken. Hacking, chopping, stabbing are not that hard on a decent knife. Hammering it through a log with knots that could bend the blade a few different ways at once is almost begging for a broken blade.

The wedge could have been made better, sure. He didn't need the saw, but it's there for the demonstration (and to show you don't really need a knife at all).

However, I feel if you need to baton, a BK2 will work as well or better than that wedge. And good luck breaking a BK2.
 
Shotgun said:
This guy thinks batoning is abusive but then chops and stabs with his knife? He also thinks that the knife is his primary survival tool even though he seems to favor his saw for the heavy lifting. I also wonder why he’d bother to make a wedge when you can split the wood without it. Or why he’s using a wedge that thick. Mostly, I wonder why he’d opt for expending MORE time and energy using a technique that even he struggles with trying to disprove another technique that he has a knife fully capable of doing. Why would you carry that knife if not to have batoning on the menu... Too many people on YouTube trying to teach stuff they don’t understand.

Batoning to split wood like that isn’t abusive and not really all that stressful on the knife. It’s also not damaging to the edge either as the edge is typically untouched by the wood after the initial couple of taps. You can do it with a thin mora. The only people arguing the baton vs. no baton are people who can’t realize there’s more then one way to skin a cat or what their equipment is capable of.

As to the topic at hand, 1095 is cheap and tough enough for most things. I wouldn’t choose it for an edc where I encounter cardboard but for the woods you really don’t need something super tough if the heat treat and geometry are right. And that’s for me who knows about steel. To the vast majority of the people out there, 1095 may be the best steel they’ve ever tried and because it does what they need it’s therefore the best. I think it’s a perspective thing.
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This man nailed it. Thank you. The anti baton on the internet is akin to gaming nerds and hard hardware. It makes me wanna baton butter knives, haters wanna hate.
 
James Starr said:
I know that chromium makes steel brittle, and so carbon steel does tend to have an advantage in toughness, but my experience with 1095 is that it is not a tough steel at all! TOPS does a fantastic job with 1095, but that's primarily due to their "differential" heat treat, which is tantamount to blue backing their blades, leaving the cutting edge hard for edge retention while leaving the spine softer and more elastic. I love TOPS and would not hesitate to buy any of their knives. In fact, I chose 1095 for my BOB over 154CM because I have absolute confidence in their heat treatment. I also have an El Chete in 1095 which I use hard without a bit of concern. I do not dislike 1095 at all. I actually really like it for a lot of applications, but it just isn't a tough steel! I actually bought a Condor when they switched to 1095 and snapped the blade in half batonning a smallish oak branch the day after it arrived. Before you ask, yes I do have an axe! And, no, I didn't seek warranty replacement because I realize I should not have batonning hardwood with a $60 knife, so my bad. My point is that I have never found 1095 to be particularly tough, yet every graph shows 1095 to have excellent toughness. I can baton with my N690 scandivex all day without a chip and minimal rolling, and all the charts say it has very marginal toughness at a similar 60ish hardness. Am I wrong or are the charts wrong? Am I just having bad experience with 1095? Is there something I'm missing, or have others had similar experience with 1095?
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I don't know. I like CPM-3V - it's tougher.
 
Joshua Bartosiewicz said:
Maybe 1095 is tough?
Here’s a factory produced STICK tang with a huge breaking point at the guard the Infamous Kabar. Watch that this Russian does to it. If not using hammer, IMO, it survives.

idk how many stainless could do this?
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Cutting through soft wires and nails is a pretty common tactic to show off knives. Those knives also tend to be very thick which helps to resist hard impacts.
 
Joshua Bartosiewicz said:
Maybe 1095 is tough?
Here’s a factory produced STICK tang with a huge breaking point at the guard the Infamous Kabar. Watch that this Russian does to it. If not using hammer, IMO, it survives.

idk how many stainless could do this?
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Clearly, that KABAR was quenched in the blood of Rambo and tempered down to a rhc lower than my sister's IQ! Also, I wasn't batonning licorice with my Condor. Obviously KABAR makes tough knives. I didn't realize they used 1095. I promise my N690 bushcrafter is tougher though, and N690 isn't a particularly tough steel. It is tougher than people give it credit for though. Some people think it's just a fancy VG-10, but it's definitely not. Please don't everyone @ me with "yes it is." I can tell you why it isn't, but just not in this thread please. Other stainless steels that I find tougher than 1095 are S35VN and even M390. Although I don't actually own those steels in comparable blade profiles, I believe they are tougher than 1095 tempered to recommended hardnesses.
 
not2sharp said:
I don’t know why people insist on splitting logs. Why not just pile the wet lumber around your camp fire, so that it dries

n2s
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This made me laugh. I think you were joking, but it might be that your username is very apropos. In case it's the latter, what would I use to make said fire? Also, yeah... I'm pretty sure you were joking... Right? Either way, I'm still laughing.
 
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I think even the least tough knife steel is tough enough and people fret too much about toughness, edge retention, etc. Don't get me wrong... I love and appreciate nice knives with premium super-steels. I just don't think they're necessary for you to get along in the woods. I know the thread is about toughness, but if you're evaluating it by test-batoning through oak branches, batoning must be something you think you might need to do.

I guess in a real survival situation you might have just a knife to get by with. (And that's all the more reason to treat it wisely, regardless of how tough the steel is reputed to be.) When you somehow get thrust into this survival situation, what knife do you think you'll have with you? A big fixed-blade made of super-tough blade steel? Your EDC? Airplane crash = none at all; you'll have to improvise. (Thanks TSA)

And if you're heading out into the woods on purpose, you should have the appropriate tools so you won't have to risk breaking your knife.

I've been camping/backpacking/hunting in all seasons for about 40 years and I've never broken a fixed blade knife of any steel type. I've also never made a feather stick or beat my knife with a baton, both of which seem to have somehow become an absolute necessity for backwoods living and a measure of knife capability.

Of course, none of any of this explains why I have about a dozen Busse knives... :) (and they rarely get carried into the woods!)
 
mr starr seems to be new here... there is an excellent amount of info here, if you really want to know the deep info about this subject you should read all of @Larrin posts

this article he wrote has the actual numbers for toughness
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/06/15/what-is-the-best-budget-knife-steel/
low-alloy-toughness-2-14-20.jpg


1095 can hit around 10 ft pounds when it's hardness is down to 57... but it drop as hardness increases
also, someone said d2 is tougher, ... it isn't since it sits around 5 ft pounds

if you want a steel to baton with till the cows come home (sorry, I had to) 5160 or 8670 will give best toughness


all of these things assume proper heat treatment & tempering have been done on your steel... if that part is fked up - the steel hardly matters
 
dirc said:
mr starr seems to be new here... there is an excellent amount of info here, if you really want to know the deep info about this subject you should read all of @Larrin posts

this article he wrote has the actual numbers for toughness
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/06/15/what-is-the-best-budget-knife-steel/
low-alloy-toughness-2-14-20.jpg


1095 can hit around 10 ft pounds when it's hardness is down to 57... but it drop as hardness increases
also, someone said d2 is tougher, ... it isn't since it sits around 5 ft pounds

if you want a steel to baton with till the cows come home (sorry, I had to) 5160 or 8670 will give best toughness


all of these things assume proper heat treatment & tempering have been done on your steel... if that part is fked up - the steel hardly matters
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Yep. soc_monki directed me to steelnerds earlier and I found this chart under choosing steels. Good stuff. I also learned that my N690 isn't nearly as tough as I thought it was. I suspected that my bushcrafter in that steel might have a deceivingly good heat treat, and I guess I was probably right. I actually don't even think the toughness is generally all that important for most applications. I am mostly just curious why 1095 is perceived as so tough. I thought maybe I just had bad experiences with it. Turns out it isn't actually very tough at all. I kinda wish I had been wrong though, because I do like 1095 overall. If I lived someplace other than Louisiana, I'd like it even more.
 
Smiling said:
Get a 3V knife like I did... that'll have it all, toughness, edge retention and corrosion resistance.
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I have two knives in 3V. I love them. I'm not looking for a tough steel. I just thought I might be wrong about 1095's toughness. I have broken two 1095 blades. Granted, one was just a thin mora and I was trying to pry a notch out with the thin edge, but the other was a brand new Condor with a 5 mil spine and a scandi grind. Nope, I actually broke the tip off of another mora, so two moras. To be fair, I broke the tip off of every swiss army knife I had when I was a kid too, but I think everyone does that. Or do they? Maybe that's just me too...
 
desmobob said:
I think even the least tough knife steel is tough enough and people fret too much about toughness, edge retention, etc. Don't get me wrong... I love and appreciate nice knives with premium super-steels. I just don't think they're necessary for you to get along in the woods. I know the thread is about toughness, but if you're evaluating it by test-batoning through oak branches, batoning must be something you think you might need to do.

I guess in a real survival situation you might have just a knife to get by with. (And that's all the more reason to treat it wisely, regardless of how tough the steel is reputed to be.) When you somehow get thrust into this survival situation, what knife do you think you'll have with you? A big fixed-blade made of super-tough blade steel? Your EDC? Airplane crash = none at all; you'll have to improvise. (Thanks TSA)

And if you're heading out into the woods on purpose, you should have the appropriate tools so you won't have to risk breaking your knife.

I've been camping/backpacking/hunting in all seasons for about 40 years and I've never broken a fixed blade knife of any steel type. I've also never made a feather stick or beat my knife with a baton, both of which seem to have somehow become an absolute necessity for backwoods living and a measure of knife capability.

Of course, none of any of this explains why I have about a dozen Busse knives... :) (and they rarely get carried into the woods!)
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Oh, I'm definitely no survivalist my friend. I only like bushcrafting because I like sharp objects, fire, leather and waxed canvas. The only reason I even go outside is because that's where the trees that give me my wood live. Also, it's not a good idea to shoot guns inside, generally speaking. Not saying I haven't done it, but I recognize the disadvantages of doing so. It wasn't so much the hole in my floor as it was the $400 plumber bill... Would have been worth it if I'd hit the rat though. Don't judge. Rats are fast and .22's are small. I mean, .223 is technically a .22, right? :o
 
Zeunerite said:
Most people start with something small like branches and twigs.
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It's pretty hard to make a feather stick out of a twig though. But let's say I could, how many branches and twigs would I need to burn to dry out a log??? Nah, I think I'll keep splitting logs. You can try to dry out a log with a fire made out of twigs if you want to though. Are you seriously saying that you don't see a reason to split a log? I mean, even if I didn't need a fire, there are other reasons to split a log. Are ya gonna carve a spoon out of a six inch log too? I'm pretty sure not2sharp was joking. Maybe you are too?
 
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