Why Does Everyone Think 1095 is Tough?

The reputation of 1095 probably has a lot to do with the USMC fighting utility knife and nearly 100 years of vets who have had experience with them.

Beyond that, it is a known quantity and many manufacturers know how to work with it. If 1095 is tough enough for Ka-Bar/Becker, ESEE, TOPs, and many others, maybe it just meets the threshold of tough enough for the intended use.

I would guess (hope) that your broken Condor is a fluke. I think Condor just recently started using 1095, they used to use mainly 1075. Maybe they don't have their 1095 heat treat perfected yet? Maybe it was made on a Friday afternoon? I could also see running into issues with hardwood, especially if you hit a knot.

Is it fair to assume that Mora carbon steel is equivalent to 1095?
 
MBG said:
The reputation of 1095 probably has a lot to do with the USMC fighting utility knife and nearly 100 years of vets who have had experience with them.

Beyond that, it is a known quantity and many manufacturers know how to work with it. If 1095 is tough enough for Ka-Bar/Becker, ESEE, TOPs, and many others, maybe it just meets the threshold of tough enough for the intended use.

I would guess (hope) that your broken Condor is a fluke. I think Condor just recently started using 1095, they used to use mainly 1075. Maybe they don't have their 1095 heat treat perfected yet? Maybe it was made on a Friday afternoon? I could also see running into issues with hardwood, especially if you hit a knot.

Is it fair to assume that Mora carbon steel is equivalent to 1095?
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I think it CAN be tough enough with the right heat treat. Blue backing, differential heating and tempering do good things for 1095 to be sure. Perhaps it is the heat treat and prolific use that lead people to conclude that 1095 is tough. And the popularity of the steel certainly drives sales, so that would influence makers' choice. Even when 1084 or 1075 is an easier choice. I think Condor's decision to switch to 1095 was likely driven by their marketing department. And I'm sure Condor will improve their heat treat as they learn. I have never owned a Condor knife before they switched, so I guess I'm part of the problem. Lastly, yes, mora's carbon steel's composition is identical to 1095, but maybe a little cleaner. It's not an assumption. They call it a 1095 equivalent, but it's more than just equivalent. It's identical except with slightly fewer impurities.
 
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Most people who know a bit about knife steels know that 1095 isn't considered to be all that tough compared to a lot of other steels out there. I think that most 1095 out there is hardened to a point where toughness isn't the foremost attribute when it's chosen for a knife. At lower hardness levels it can be OK, but the lower carbon "non-stainless" steels will almost always be better, as will the low carbide volume "stainless" steels.
 
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James Starr said:
It's pretty hard to make a feather stick out of a twig though. But let's say I could, how many branches and twigs would I need to burn to dry out a log??? Nah, I think I'll keep splitting logs. You can try to dry out a log with a fire made out of twigs if you want to though. Are you seriously saying that you don't see a reason to split a log? I mean, even if I didn't need a fire, there are other reasons to split a log. Are ya gonna carve a spoon out of a six inch log too? I'm pretty sure not2sharp was joking. Maybe you are too?
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Precisely, you start with twigs and sticks, and gradually work your way up to the larger pieces. The only advantage a heavier piece has over the stuff you can break by hand is that it burns longer. If you are passing up a forest full of sticks and twigs to split and feather stick a log you are doing it the hard way.

n2s
 
dirc said:
mr starr seems to be new here... there is an excellent amount of info here, if you really want to know the deep info about this subject you should read all of @Larrin posts

this article he wrote has the actual numbers for toughness
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/06/15/what-is-the-best-budget-knife-steel/
low-alloy-toughness-2-14-20.jpg


1095 can hit around 10 ft pounds when it's hardness is down to 57... but it drop as hardness increases
also, someone said d2 is tougher, ... it isn't since it sits around 5 ft pounds

if you want a steel to baton with till the cows come home (sorry, I had to) 5160 or 8670 will give best toughness


all of these things assume proper heat treatment & tempering have been done on your steel... if that part is fked up - the steel hardly matters
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Yeah, but CPM-3V and some other steels are not on the charts. But they have plenty of steels that I have never heard of...
 
NativeinaBush said:
I have a TOPS brothers of bushcraft that I've had for years and have put it through absolute HELL and the thing is still going strong
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Yes. I have a BOB in 1095 as well. I actually chose that over the one in 154CM, and I live on the Bayou. I love the TOPS "differential" heat treat. It leaves the back soft and gives me a nice, carbide rich edge that stays sharp. That said, I don't find 1095 to be an inherently tough steel. I just think TOPS is BEAST!
 
James Starr said:
Yes. I have a BOB in 1095 as well. I actually chose that over the one in 154CM, and I live on the Bayou. I love the TOPS "differential" heat treat. It leaves the back soft and gives me a nice, carbide rich edge that stays sharp. That said, I don't find 1095 to be an inherently tough steel. I just think TOPS is BEAST!
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1095 is rated at 7/10 for toughness on the BHQ list. That's not too shabby for the price if you ask me. But I would rather pay extra for 3V. :)
 
not2sharp said:
1095 works well at rc54-55 and can be easily sharpened easily with a natural stone. There weren’t many ceramic and diamond sharpeners floating around WWII.

n2s
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Sure, but if you're not going to take advantage of the carbon content of 1095, then why not just use 1084? 1084 is less expensive, more machinable, much easier to heat treat and it maintains a reasonable cutting edge. The only reason I can think of is if you wanted to blue back it to get the best of both worlds. That's actually a good reason. That is a little more complicated, but still easier than sanmai. I guess that is why TOPS loves 1095 so much. They certainly know a hell of a lot more than I do. I'm just trying to wrap my head around why 1095 can be so much better than it has any right to be. I might be getting there though. Thanks for the reply.
 
000Robert said:
Yeah, but CPM-3V and some other steels are not on the charts. But they have plenty of steels that I have never heard of...
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That's actually a chart of low alloy carbon steels. 1095 is certainly that. It is literally only carbon, iron and a pinch of manganese. I think the manganese is actually just there because it is not easily cleansed completely from iron ore. 1095 is essentially the lowest alloy that can be called steel. Anyway, 3V is on another chart. I should say barely on the chart. It's damn near off the chart. I think it might be what determined where the top of the chart ends. It is rediculously tough. I can't imagine ever needing steel that tough for a knife. It's for minmaxers. I prefer 4V in principal. It's not nearly as tough, but it's still tougher than I could imagine ever needing in a knife, so I'd prefer the slight improvement in edge retention of 4V. But everyone wants the toughest steel imaginable, so knife makers give them 3V. If I could find a knife I like and could afford in 4V, I think that would be my preference. Anyway, he tested 3V, and you are correct. He has a third chart for stainless steels as well. He seems to be reliable. I certainly trust him more than I trust myself. I make a lot of suppositions that could be way off base. Based on my experience, I thought n690 was reasonably tough, but I will defer to his analysis, and he disagrees. It appears to be about on par with 1095 and D2.
 
1084 is less expensive, more machinable, much easier to heat treat and it maintains a reasonable cutting edge.
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I believe you may have answered you own question within the first two parts - cheaper & easier.
A lot of manufacturers (both mass & custom) take pride in their ability & the use of "better" materials.
From a lot of what I've read over the years, 1095 has a reputation among the knife makers as being "difficult" to work with.

Where I'm going with this is - if you can make a great knife using 1095, then you've done something worth mentioning.
Plus - using 1095 leaves a lot of room for "lemons" or "one of a kinds" or "one in a million" - or - "one done to perfection" - since as I understand 1095, you have to judge each individual knife onn it's own merits.​
 
After going through purchasing different brands w/ different steels here and there for almost the past year, I actually gravitated to Kabar for my outdoor fun knives. I love how their thicker spined knives can take abuse, their edges haven't chipped due to them not being too hard, and 1095 sharpens so easy and fast. Imo I think they are great for outdoor knives for the price.
 
000Robert said:
What are you talking about? They rate 3V's corrosion resistance at 5/10, near the bottom of the list.
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They also list S35VN at 5, and it's a stainless steel. It contains 7.5% chromium and no nitrogen or anything else that I can see that bolsters stainless properties. S35VN contains 14% chromium. Nearly double. Furthermore, I think D2 has a lower rating on that chart, and I think it contains 12% chromium. Yeah, that chart is terrible, and I like bladehq. I give them a lot of my money! I referenced the blade hq rating of 7/10 toughness in an earlier post when someone asked who said 1095 was tough. And it was quickly pointed out that that guide is flat out wrong, as I suspected from my experience. That chart was actually part of the reason I started this thread. That combined with the proliferation of 1095 in hard use knives and the general consensus among people I know who think that 1095 is a tough steel. Yeah. That has not been my experience at all, so I was wondering if I was just having terrible luck with 1095. Turns out I know more than blade hq. Or maybe they are just hyping up 1095 to drive sales on high margin knives... It appears that 1095 toughness is on par with D2, which makes sense to me based on my experience. I have one knife in D2 that actually chips when I sharpen it on a 1k grit diamond plate, lol. Obviously heat treated way too hard, but still, D2 on par with 1095 seems about right to me. DBK has a video where they shatter two D2 blades with one shot from a pellet gun! Lol. And one of the knives was an expensive knife. Micky almost cried!
 
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James Starr said:
That's actually a chart of low alloy carbon steels. 1095 is certainly that. It is literally only carbon, iron and a pinch of manganese. I think the manganese is actually just there because it is not easily cleansed completely from iron ore. 1095 is essentially the lowest alloy that can be called steel. Anyway, 3V is on another chart. I should say barely on the chart. It's damn near off the chart. I think it might be what determined where the top of the chart ends. It is rediculously tough. I can't imagine ever needing steel that tough for a knife. It's for minmaxers. I prefer 4V in principal. It's not nearly as tough, but it's still tougher than I could imagine ever needing in a knife, so I'd prefer the slight improvement in edge retention of 4V. But everyone wants the toughest steel imaginable, so knife makers give them 3V. If I could find a knife I like and could afford in 4V, I think that would be my preference. Anyway, he tested 3V, and you are correct. He has a third chart for stainless steels as well. He seems to be reliable. I certainly trust him more than I trust myself. I make a lot of suppositions that could be way off base. Based on my experience, I thought n690 was reasonably tough, but I will defer to his analysis, and he disagrees. It appears to be about on par with 1095 and D2.
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Yeah, I guess I was half asleep still. I have seen the charts before so I don't know what I was thinking. But it seems that 1095 is too low on the chart. It is pretty tough steel. I know that Larrin is light years ahead of me on this stuff, but something seems wrong.
I buy my 3V knives from CPK. Nathan says that his Delta heat treat gives the 3V better edge retention, and better corrosion resistance if I remember correctly.
 
Zeunerite said:
The stainless Sandvik steels, 400 series steels, and AUS-8 are given a 4/10 for corrosion resistance.
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Ok. I guess I'll just have to leave it to the experts. I oil my knives every few months so I am the worst person to know about corrosion resistance. I have a Bowie styled knife made of Damascus from Pakistan and a folder that doesn't have even a spec of rust on them. I have had them for 8 years or so, and they stay in their leather sheaths.
 
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