Why don't people keep their Hinderer knives?

[straitr]

Thanks Straitr :thumbup:

Yeah man. :thumbup:

Right. And heaven knows there's nothing wrong with a 561. If I could carry one, I'd own one. But it's just too big for me. Fortunately, ZT decided to make the 0770CF. That knife solved a lot of problems for me and I'm really happy with it, but it's not a Hinderer design. And a lightweight (less than 4 ounces) version of the 3" XM-18 is what I really want ZT to build. If they do that, I wouldn't care if I ever bought an original. ZT quality (and pricing) is good enough for me.

The 561 is the big folder that made me fall in love with big folders. Up until I bought the 561, the biggest I carried regularly and enjoyed was a PM2. In fact, it was the XM-24 I had my eye on, only because I wanted to try a bit bigger than the 561, so it's funny you say that. Haha

And I would buy a 3" lightweight ZT Hinderer design, too. In fact, I really like the 566 style and size, but it basically weighs the same as my 561, so I passed.

I'm thinking Super Commander.

And I'm sure you're not the only one.
I gave Rob some good advice in this thread. Maybe he will take it.

Yeah, and you did so respectfully, good on you. To be honest, I was trying not to call him out by name the first time around, but it is what it is, and he chose to post here for all to see.

 

[bld522]

. . . and he chose to post here for all to see . . .

. . . and, I might add, utterly blew my mind with his revelation that an XM is designed to operate as a gravity knife.

 

[kwazyjuice]

This might be a good alternative for you guys that think the 560/561 size is big. The 562 is smaller in size, not sure about weight...

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...erance-Knives-Announced-at-the-2014-SHOT-Show

 

[bld522]

The ZT 0562 is definitely smaller than a ZT 0561. Here are the specs for the 0562:

• Made in the USA
• KVT ball-bearing opening
• Reversible deep-carry clip
• Frame lock, lockbar stabilizer
• Steel: ELMAX®, stonewashed & satin finish
• Handle: Textured G-10 front, stonewashed titanium back
• Blade Length: 3.5 in. (8.9 cm)
• Closed Length: 4.8 in. (12.2 cm)
• Weight: 5.5 oz. (156 g)

For people who are interested in a ZT version of the 3.5" XM, the 0562 should fill the bill. But for people like me who won't be satisfied with anything other than a ZT version of the 3.0" XM, the wait continues.

 

[Scurvy092]

. . . and, I might add, utterly blew my mind with his revelation that an XM is designed to operate as a gravity knife.

That info has been in a sticky in their sub forum for a while now. It's not new information.

 

[bld522]

That makes it even more interesting, Scurvy. I can't help but wonder if anyone has ever been prosecuted for carrying an XM in a jurisdiction that prohibits gravity knives.

Anyway, why run the risk? There are so many great knives from so many great makers . . . production and custom . . . that have strong detents and cost what an XM costs on the secondary market that there's just no reason for me to put myself in harm's way. If a product is designed specifically for Mil/LEO/EMT use, then that's who should use it . . . not me. If I like the design, I'll seek alternatives that are geared for use by the general public and legal for me to carry. Fortunately, there's a plethora of Hinderer-designed products that meet that description with more coming all the time. And they're coming from one of the best production knife companies extant. They also have the not-insignificant side benefit of costing less than half of what an XM costs on the secondary market.

I'd also be wary of trafficking in XMs. If I get busted with an XM for carrying a gravity knife and the authorities ask me where I got it from, well . . . it doesn't take a degree in rocket science to see where that's leading.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Discretion is the better part of valor.

 

[bld522]

I decided to pick up the question of whether an XM is a gravity knife in another thread. Here's a link for those who may be interested:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...M-18-considered-a-gravity-knife-in-California

 

[uofaengr]

The Eklipses and 3" Wharnies seem to be commanding a premium in the days following their release. The ZT version of the Eklipse looks like a winner to me also, but didn't catch how much it'll retail for.

 

[Silvanus]

The Eklipses and 3" Wharnies seem to be commanding a premium in the days following their release. The ZT version of the Eklipse looks like a winner to me also, but didn't catch how much it'll retail for.

It looks like one on the exchange will sell for $800. As far as the ZT version, I wouldn't be surprised to see close to the Hinderer model in price on the secondary market.

 

[PURPLEDC]

I don't sugar coat things, I don't make promises I can't keep, I don't beat around the bush, when I answer emails I get to the point. If stating facts to you regarding our policy on detents and standing behind my company's policy makes me a dick, then I guess I am. I have stated it publicly in our forums here and elsewhere on more than one occasion that XM folders do not have stiff flipper style detents. Rick designed the knife with 3 opening methods, flipper, thumbstud and inertia, a stiff detent will eliminate the inertia and possible the thumbstud for some folks and that is not how they were designed. So the spec that Rick has chosen is not for everyone, same goes with all knives out there, you either like the knife and it's features or you don't. I stated these same facts to you when answering your email, and you chose to not like the answer, that I can't control, our policies and methods with dealing with warranty and service I can. We stand behind every product we sell, but we don't offer carte blanche customization on request, these are production knives all built within the same perimeters and specs. You have a pretty dramatic pitch regarding safety and it hurting you or someone else, but it didn't stop you from selling the knife to someone. Apparently, the detent suited them just fine, we haven't had a detent related email in ages.

I am not going to get into a debate, I provided facts regarding Hinderer Knives policies regarding detents, and apparently it has been taken personally. If anyone has any questions or concerns for me drop me a line anytime, rob@rickhindererknives.com

You know I know this is an old thread but I have a serious question and its one that I havent seen answered. You say Rick designed the XM-18 to have a weaker detent. Are you saying that because he designed it to have a weaker detent that it cant in fact have a detent that would be considered too weak? I understand that you cant offer custom detent set ups to accommodate each individuals preferences but it would seem that you are implying that any detent you put on a hinderer knife is simply the way it is supposed to be and that because the knife is designed to have a weak detent that anything less than a strong one is therefore within spec. I understand designing a knife to be able to be opened in the manner you discuss but I would think "intentionally weak" detent or not if a knife is opening in someones pocket under normal conditions to be a safety concern. So this wouldnt have been a situation where you are "customizing" a knife to one persons desires but ensuring that a LEO had a tool that was operating properly. Did he go on to sell the knife? Yes. But this was after you made it very clear that his knife was operating as normal and it was only his opinion that something was wrong. So if that is the case and there was really no possibility of a malfunctioning detent what would be wrong with him selling it if you yourself profess it is operating as it should?

 

[Alford78]

You know I know this is an old thread but I have a serious question and its one that I havent seen answered. You say Rick designed the XM-18 to have a weaker detent. Are you saying that because he designed it to have a weaker detent that it cant in fact have a detent that would be considered too weak? I understand that you cant offer custom detent set ups to accommodate each individuals preferences but it would seem that you are implying that any detent you put on a hinderer knife is simply the way it is supposed to be and that because the knife is designed to have a weak detent that anything less than a strong one is therefore within spec. I understand designing a knife to be able to be opened in the manner you discuss but I would think "intentionally weak" detent or not if a knife is opening in someones pocket under normal conditions to be a safety concern. So this wouldnt have been a situation where you are "customizing" a knife to one persons desires but ensuring that a LEO had a tool that was operating properly. Did he go on to sell the knife? Yes. But this was after you made it very clear that his knife was operating as normal and it was only his opinion that something was wrong. So if that is the case and there was really no possibility of a malfunctioning detent what would be wrong with him selling it if you yourself profess it is operating as it should?

I'm neither a fan boy or defending Rob's response but can say that my first Hinderer production 3.5" slicer gen 4 has a weak detent for a "flipper" but as Rob pointed out its not a true flipper just a knife that can be flipped. Now I only see half of the comment here from Rob only and that limits what I can or cannot say about the way he handled the situation.

Here's how I see it and it's just my opinion nothing more.

If I recieved a knife that had "NO" detent which opened purely by the amount of pivot tension then I would expect Hinderer or the buyer I bought it from to either fix it or give me my money back. Asking Hinderer to make a stronger detent is not an option which is clearly stated on his website and no telling where else. I have only been collecting knives for a few weeks and I even know this information so it's not hidden or some sort of bad customer service to refuse detent work unless it is truly flawed which I think Purple was trying to say could have been the case. It is very possible that the knife in question needed warranty work that didn't get performed according to the way the warranty service is written. BUT, the owner COULD have went about the situation completely wrong. I have no idea to the latter.

The whole point is one needs to understand what they are buying and customer support SHOULD be number one priority for any successful business model. I see people posting about quick service with Hinderer repair/warranty all the time so it's definately not an issue with the work itself but could be ignorant EXPECTATIONS with regards to the knive's functionality. I can't say since I haven't had any issues that I thought needed addressing. But I can say that I have seen a few knives that did not have what I would consider to be a detent. The blade would fall if the pivot was not tightened way down.

In any case I think if one asks the correct questions and can accept the business policy answers then one will have a properly functioning knife one way or another.

I'm going to read the gravity blade stuff but don't see how it will change my mind since I have a NIB xm 3.5 with a detent. I'm new to knives but just stating my personal opinions from a common sense point of view.


Edit.
Just because it's outrageous. Top ten criminal charge in NYC over past decade has been gravity knife possession. Illegal period if not hunting or fishing which isn't possible in NYC so not even legal to have locked away in safe at your residence. Insane politics really!

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2014/10/nyc-gravity-knife-law-arrests.php?page=all

 

[Ecohrs197]

I've been watching the Hinderer markets. Prices have been dropping, because supply is (slowly) catching up with demand. People don't want to get stuck with a raw deal, having to sell a knife they paid $800+ for what I've been seeing are now worth around $450-500. I almost pulled the trigger on a $600 gen three, but I've been patient, and in another few months to a year, there's a good chance i could pick a new one up at MSRP. Fingers crossed.