Why don't people keep their Hinderer knives?

RevDevil said:
While I am not a fanboy, I would say that the "gentleman" as you so kindly refer to has a bit of a issue as well on these forums as well as others. It's not a surprise when I searched and easily found the individual to whom you refer. I will just leave it at that. Take what you read with a grain of salt, some folks make a living making a whole lot outta nothing.
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I agree with most of what you said Rev. Having said that, if you were a buddy of mine and saw and heard what went down because of a (what I thought at least) simple knife discussion you would feel the way I do Rev. I Promise That. And I only shared just enough to explain my feelings. Because I "could have" shared what I heard over the stations speaker phone when he called The Kewl Kids knife Factory the 3rd time and what was said. But I didn't. ;-) Makes me sick.
 
Some people just don't like them, like me for instance. It didn't do it for me, and we all know what "it" is. I listed it for sale the next day, and ended up in a partial trade for a Sebenza 25. And we all know there are many stories exactly like mine, only in the reverse. So there's another reason - people want to try it out, and not get their pants pulled down in the process, because they hold good resale value.
 
I've tried all 3 production grinds on the xm-18. Only one I kept long term was the SPANTO. I got it direct from the ranch. At that price it's an ok knife. But it isn't worth the secondary price. You can get quality hand ground customs for the secondary price of a hinderer. It's nuts. A curtiss f3 is a much better knife imo. But, if I was a first responder, I've yet to handle a knife that I would feel better trusting my life too. I do edc a carbon fiber xm-18 though...
 
MrPocketsOfSteel said:
Great Post. I made the awful mistake in sharing my take on my knives and what I carry with an *acquaintance*.

He works in that "Special Rick Knife Group". I should've never uttered a peep. What I shared with these two fellas (in my mind) was in the hope that it may either save their life or one of their friends.

I also hoped that I may at least get to handle one seeings how they carried *Absolute Junk*. To make a long story short I opened up a Cash Cow Firefighter and 2 EMT Pipeline.

Six knives from two different stations and an EMT " clubhouse" for lack of a better word. Not one of those guys owns a Hinderer knife as of three months ago. I was also told from a Very Reliable Source that my Stupidly Shared Information was then shared with other buddies in "the Kewl Kids Klub" in another state and another station etc. Now.....I know I am not the only one that did that. What Life Lesson did I learn from that? To Never Tell ANYONE that does Any Type of Work that helps people <---- isn't that sad?!?! about a tool that could maybe help them out or save their life or a loved one.

That is terrible what I typed. But It Is The Truth and I would more than likely feel sick if I knew the actual amount of money that was pilfered because of what I shared. Would I carry me a Kewl Kids Klub Knife? Never in a million years and it isn't sour grapes though one may think that. To actually see and know how that all went down gives me a bad bad feeling when it comes to "those knives". I am done. :-) Now I'll receive that " special notification thingey". Ha!
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I have no idea what any of this means.
 
I can only speak for myself. I've owned 6 XM's. I love the knife, I think it's one of the best made. I've bought and sold some because I have the disease, I want what I want real bad, when I get it I want something else. The only reason I've sold a few is because I had another one. I have the 1st XM-18 I got, and I have the 1st XM-24 I ever got. Right now I never want to sell them but who knows. Oh and I've met Rob Orlando at a knife show, and I've communicated w/him online several times and he was always very helpful and polite and seemed like a real good guy to me.
 
CGSshorty said:
I have no idea what any of this means.
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I think he's saying that he shared the market conditions for Hinderer knives with friends of his in services that allowed them to buy Hinderer's at factory prices, they did so, then onsold for the profit. They've then told others who do the same.

To be honest I don't see anything in a Hinderer knife that'd save your life more than you'd find in ZT 0560, or for that matter a quarter inch thick 1095 fixed blade with a nice sharp edge (which I'm sure any competent knife maker can knock out for under $200 or you can buy from Schrade for under $50). If you want a prybar, carry a prybar.
 
"Stays Sharp" hit it on the head! The games that are played with these knives are ridiculous. Unless you have an early model, that Rick actually made, what's the big deal? Paying more than MSRP just encourages this nonsense. If people would stop doing it, you could have the same knife in your pocket and a couple hundred bucks to put toward another one. I'll stick with Strider and CRK until the price gouging stood.
 
For the record, I've bought exactly one XM-18 20CV for about $800 (including extra G-10 scales) and it has been a minor disappointment. A mediocre flipper with a blunt blade but excellent overall quality. After fine-tuning the flipper and sharpening the blade it's much better now albeit inadequate at the civilian pricing. More can be had for much less (if you're not mil/LEO).
 
I've always found them too bulky for any normal cutting chores. But I usually just carry a traditional type pocket knife. When I do carry a clipped knife I prefer one with a more utilitarian blade (cutting food, tape, box, etc.) It's not that I don't think they are nice knives, just way over built for my needs. I'm guessing a lot of people buy them and then feel the same way. Just not practical.
 
Is there any knife in the XM line that's 3 or 4 times better than something comparable from ZT??

It's like, how much better is an $800 bottle of wine from a $250 bottle of wine? I dunno, I'm not into wine enough to be able to tell you.
I think once you cross a certain point, it's just about showing off. And that only works if you hang around other knife guys (Military, LE, etc).
Otherwise, nobody is gonna know or care that you spent $800 on your knife rather than $250.
Maybe hype leads a lot of guys to buying one, and then buyer's remorse causes them to later sell them?
 
I see two explanations for the bulk of it, reality is likely a mix of both.

1) lots of guys getting the mil/leo/ems discount are flipping them to make a quick $300, they tell their friends, and they do it too. Sell 2 of them and you've paid for the one you keep and have a couple hundred left over for beer.

2) lots of guys are buying them in that $600-700 range, and aren't impressed, at least not enough to keep them, and they repeatedly get handed around in new condition.

I'm sure there's some guys that like a Sebenza it's a safe buy, because so far they are holding their value so some might just want to check out the hype. I'm sure a few guys fall on hard times, sell to buy another variant, knife doesn't fit their hand etc, but I think those are the minority.

There's no doubt, people that do keep them, however, there isn't another $650+ knife that even comes close to the numbers of "as new" Hinderers hitting the boards every day, so there's a good reason(s) whatever it is.

At retail ($385) I think they are a good value, if I paid $700 for one, lets just say I'd be glad that I could get my money back at least from the ones I've played with, I'd take a VECP over any I've handled any day of the week. Not bad knives, just not $700 worth to me. Then again someone just dropped $1500 for a production limited edition ZT 0888, so obviously everyone's idea of a value may and probably does vary greatly from mine. :)
 
Freman Bloodglaive said:
To be honest I don't see anything in a Hinderer knife that'd save your life more than you'd find in ZT 0560, or for that matter a quarter inch thick 1095 fixed blade with a nice sharp edge (which I'm sure any competent knife maker can knock out for under $200 or you can buy from Schrade for under $50). If you want a prybar, carry a prybar.
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My point exactly. And it's not even about saving your life. The overall F&F, quality, customer service, etc, it's all going to be *almost* just as good as RHK would provide, at a fraction of the cost.
Again, the whole "kewl kids klub knife" doesn't count for much if you don't hang out with other "kewl kids".
That being said, I'm sure owning an XM would be great and it would be a fantastic addition to any knife collection.

I'm not knocking XMs at all, I am just saying I think buyer's remorse plays a big part in why you see so many for sale all the time.
 
I think a lot of people buy them wanting to just try one then sell it so they can purchase other things. I just traded away my 3.5 for a flashpoint + cash but that was because I wanted a fixed blade knife and still have a 3" spanto.
 
Ill tell you one thing; a hinderer is a bargain compared to a shirogorov. that knife was 400-500 a little over a year ago,now its triple,except for some "bargains" on the exchange for 800 which still isn't worth it. I had one at 400.00 it was worth that price,but no way its a 1200.00 knife,and anyone who is spending that kind of money for one is fooling themselves if they think they are getting their moneys worth.It seems people have been going nuts in the last year or so buying el patrons,curtiss similar overpriced knives.the hinderer seems like it was the 1st of this trend...
 
Here's the part I don't quite capice! ZT will be producing better quality XM-18 3.5" folders with much better KVT flipper actions and at least similar quality... Added to include better steel, reverse frame scales and a street price of $240!!!
 
RamZar said:
Here's the part I don't quite capice! ZT will be producing better quality XM-18 3.5" folders with much better KVT flipper actions and at least similar quality... Added to include better steel, reverse frame scales and a street price of $240!!!
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I don't know if I would consider a bearing system better. What steel is going to be better than the s35vn they use? The heat treat is spot on
 
I'm a fireman and I've only purchased one XM 3.5" direct from the ranch. It's a great $385 knife, but thats it. It is no more special than a CRK or Strider as others have said. I have paid $170 over MSRP for a 20CV sterile spanto mostly because I wanted to try the steel and it wasn't ridiculously overpriced. I use mine without fear, and have no intention of selling them. As far as others in the profession, I can say I'm the only firefighter in my department with an XM. After hearing the near $400 price, nobody wants to buy one even if they can be flipped for profit. I interact with police on the job regularly as well. And wile I've never had a knife specific discussion with any of them, I can say I've never seen a Hinderer in any of their pockets.
 
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