Why is it ok? (actions of particular moderators)

[Kohai999]

I removed a couple of posts that were off-topic for this venue. (They were not deleted, they were moved to the moderator's section.)

If you feel the need to discuss the rules and policies of this site and / or the actions of particular moderators, take it to the "Tech Support" area. Please do the OP the courtesy of remaining on topic.

Elliott, we have had our differences in the past, so I hope that a fair deal/discussion can be had here.

Why is it OK for Karda to taunt me and friends of mine in threads that don't call for his moderation?

Why is it OK for him to mention HI outside of the HI Forum, when he works with HI and these mentions could be inferred to be promotion of HI outside of the HI Forum, when he is clearly biased and promoting HI? How is this in the best interest of BladeForums?

Why is it OK for Karda to not only dish it out publicly, but then to take it to one of my friends in a PM AFTER he was already infracted and then taunt him there?

How is any of this acceptable from a Moderator, who we are supposed to hold to a higher standard?

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Blues]

STeven, I wiill be busy for the next 45 minutes or so but I promise to come back and try to address your comments.

 

[Kohai999]

STeven, I wiill be busy for the next 45 minutes or so but I promise to come back and try to address your comments.

Thanks man.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Blues]

Elliott, we have had our differences in the past, so I hope that a fair deal/discussion can be had here.

Why is it OK for Karda to taunt me and friends of mine in threads that don't call for his moderation?

I don't know that he taunted you, STeven, I think that he originally reacted as he did because he found your comments abrasive in the thread that I most recently became aware of in the Custom Knife forum. I honestly am not aware of the history or issues between you two in the past. Not denying them, simply saying I am not aware of them.

Why is it OK for him to mention HI outside of the HI Forum, when he works with HI and these mentions could be inferred to be promotion of HI outside of the HI Forum, when he is clearly biased and promoting HI? How is this in the best interest of BladeForums?

In a private discussion in the moderator section this evening I advised him as a colleague that in my opinion he should not mix the discussion of HI with anything he does as a super moderator on the site. There should be a clear demarcation as to when and where he is posting as a forum member vs. a super mod vs. a moderator or interested party in HI. Any conflict of interest (real or perceived) is unacceptable.

Why is it OK for Karda to not only dish it out publicly, but then to take it to one of my friends in a PM AFTER he was already infracted and then taunt him there?

I can't comment on something I'm unaware of. I don't know who your friend is or what transpired. Your friend can make a report if he feels it warranted.

How is any of this acceptable from a Moderator, who we are supposed to hold to a higher standard?

STeven, I agree that moderators must be held to a higher standard when acting as representatives of the site and in fairly administering the rules of the site. When they are acting as regular members of the site, they are free to let their hair down, so to speak. That said, there cannot be any conflict of interest, real or perceived, imho.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

For the record, I only typed in (unbolded) red to distinguish between your questions and my answers. Not to give any weight to my replies. While I often don't agree with your way of conducting yourself in a thread or communicating with others, I will always give you an honest answer to the best of my ability.

 

[Kohai999]

For the record, I only typed in (unbolded) red to distinguish between your questions and my answers. Not to give any weight to my replies. While I often don't agree with your way of conducting yourself in a thread or communicating with others, I will always give you an honest answer to the best of my ability.

Thanks, Elliott, I appreciate the answers....and took no offense to your responses in red.

I can say that Karda has gone after me and Joe Paranee all over the Forums, regardless of context or content, but most specifically in Customs...which I have challenged him on both publicly and privately.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[prsfx]

Elliott, we have had our differences in the past, so I hope that a fair deal/discussion can be had here.

Why is it OK for Karda to taunt me and friends of mine in threads that don't call for his moderation?

Why is it OK for him to mention HI outside of the HI Forum, when he works with HI and these mentions could be inferred to be promotion of HI outside of the HI Forum, when he is clearly biased and promoting HI? How is this in the best interest of BladeForums?

Why is it OK for Karda to not only dish it out publicly, but then to take it to one of my friends in a PM AFTER he was already infracted and then taunt him there?

How is any of this acceptable from a Moderator, who we are supposed to hold to a higher standard?

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

I see I am not the only one who has had the "pleasure" of meeting Karda, I am very curious to see how this pans out. Thank you Kohai999 for bringing this to light.

 

[Blues]

Thanks, Elliott, I appreciate the answers....and took no offense to your responses in red.

I can say that Karda has gone after me and Joe Paranee all over the Forums, regardless of context or content, but most specifically in Customs...which I have challenged him on both publicly and privately.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

You're welcome. I can say that there is a discussion going on between Spark, Karda and other moderators regarding the points brought up by you as well as Les Robertson in the thread that now has apparently gone completely awry.

Spark will be the ultimate arbiter insofar as any steps taken regarding any moderators, their actions or status on the site as a whole or within particular forums. Also as regards any real or perceived conflicts of interest.

Hopefully folks will be patient and allow sufficient time for the details to be examined in furtherance of an equitable resolution.

 

[Karda]

Why is it alright for a person to critique a knifemakers work in that forum so rudely and harshly so as to cause dissent and potentially harm that makers business in the process?

For the record..... i was not acting as a moderator in that thread, i was making commentary as a regular member. My commentary also was not advertising, but a comment on rude commentary and on how popular this style of blade is in reaction to your question of "why".

90% at least, of the knifemakers on this forum will not post their wares in that forum due to the actions and opinions of a few people. That forum is for their work to be considerately discussed, not ripped apart by a clique of bystanders.

As to my supposed advertising, as a manufacturers rep and moderator i think i've interpreted the rules correctly:
*The only members who may promote or display their personally built knives, their products, or services in the discussion threads, signature, home page listing or their user profile are "Manufacturers", "Dealers", and "Knifemaker/Craftsman/Service Provider".*

 

[Karda]

I can say that Karda has gone after me and Joe Paranee all over the Forums, regardless of context or content, but most specifically in Customs...which I have challenged him on both publicly and privately.

I've hardly gone after you or joe all over the forums.
In the few instances i've acted as moderator with either of you my actions were justified.
I'm not the only moderator that has had cause to interact with either of you.

In the instances i've acted purely as a member, it was also justifiable, as evidenced by the number of people whom disagree with you in the thread in the custom & handmade forum.

 

[JParanee]

I have been here for many years and I have never had issue with any moderator.

Bottom line is Karda is a moderator with an agenda and that is not healthy for any forum.

imho he considers everyone on the custom forum a snob and elitist and never misses a chance to let people know that. He also never misses a chance to plug HI on forums other than the HI forum

In PM's he speaks in a disrespectful IMHO manner that I find insulting

Sorry to be a whiner and I'm sure I will get a heckling message from Karda about it.

Maybe he can tell me sorry that your butt hurt but I'm not going to coddle or cry for you. Oh he already did that.

In my world there are better ways to say that I am sorry if I have offended you. But not in his obviously

To enforce rules is one thing to offend and harass is another

 

[Blues]

As to my supposed advertising, as a manufacturers rep and moderator i think i've interpreted the rules correctly:
*The only members who may promote or display their personally built knives, their products, or services in the discussion threads, signature, home page listing or their user profile are "Manufacturers", "Dealers", and "Knifemaker/Craftsman/Service Provider".*

Karda, in the interest of open and fair discussion, when the quoted section above was written and appended by yours truly it was in response to issues we were having with abuses (both intentional and unintentional) by members on the site...but I didn't consider the inclusion of moderators into the mix when I drafted it.

My point is that it was created to help our members understand who could do what at a given level of membership. What it doesn't address is how those privileges would apply to someone who was both a moderator and a manufacturer, dealer or the like.

We may have to get a ruling from Spark to clarify that particular circumstance.

 

[Kohai999]

Why is it alright for a person to critique a knifemakers work in that forum so rudely and harshly so as to cause dissent and potentially harm that makers business in the process?

Consensus amongst the regulars was that if you hadn't chimed in, it would have blown over without much of a rumpus. You don't "get" the Customs Forum, as I have said, you are not a custom knifemaker or collector, and your participation in the majority of threads causes discontent. You think you are speaking for the downtrodden masses, but in fact you speak for yourself...and not well at that. While you can "say" that you are acting as a regular member, your style of writing and the little blue letters next to your name leave a different impression.

For the record..... i was not acting as a moderator in that thread, i was making commentary as a regular member. My commentary also was not advertising, but a comment on rude commentary and on how popular this style of blade is in reaction to your question of "why".

That should be clearly stated. You are not only a Moderator, but a SuperModerator....there should be no question as to what voice you are speaking with. Also, if you are going to speak as a regular member, you should refrain from infracting members who disagree with you, otherwise, it is an abuse of the powers that you have been granted.

90% at least, of the knifemakers on this forum will not post their wares in that forum due to the actions and opinions of a few people. That forum is for their work to be considerately discussed, not ripped apart by a clique of bystanders.

Those bystanders pay a lot of knifemaker expenses, Karda. Knifemakers have many avenues to post wares....The KNIFEMAKERS section and GALLERY for starters. A knifemaker posting a photo in Customs is fair game for critique....It is where the rubber hits the road, big boy land. Like to see a maker go to a show and not sell a damned thing because they are unprepared for the "real world"?....I've seen it many times, and it is ugly in a way that the Forums will never be. A little of what goes on in Customs goes a long way to helping makers see a very serious reality...and YOU ARE NOT HELPING.

As to my supposed advertising, as a manufacturers rep and moderator i think i've interpreted the rules correctly:
*The only members who may promote or display their personally built knives, their products, or services in the discussion threads, signature, home page listing or their user profile are "Manufacturers", "Dealers", and "Knifemaker/Craftsman/Service Provider".*

I leave it to you and Spark to determine what time it is. I've made my statements publicly because PM's have been useless in trying to get you to do what you are good at and leave the rest to others more suited than you.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Karda]

Consensus amongst the regulars was that if you hadn't chimed in, it would have blown over without much of a rumpus. You don't "get" the Customs Forum, as I have said, you are not a custom knifemaker or collector, and your participation in the majority of threads causes discontent. You think you are speaking for the downtrodden masses, but in fact you speak for yourself...and not well at that. While you can "say" that you are acting as a regular member, your style of writing and the little blue letters next to your name leave a different impression.

Imagine how this sounds to others coming from you.
It shouldnt have to have blown over, it shouldnt be happening in the first place.
The idea that i think i'm speaking to downtrodden masses is laughable considering the source and it's habitual abusive behaviors

That should be clearly stated. You are not only a Moderator, but a SuperModerator....there should be no question as to what voice you are speaking with. Also, if you are going to speak as a regular member, you should refrain from infracting members who disagree with you, otherwise, it is an abuse of the powers that you have been granted.

Not my fault if a few people cannot distinguish between the actions of moderation and of an individual voicing his own opinion.

Those bystanders pay a lot of knifemaker expenses, Karda. Knifemakers have many avenues to post wares....The KNIFEMAKERS section and GALLERY for starters. A knifemaker posting a photo in Customs is fair game for critique....It is where the rubber hits the road, big boy land. Like to see a maker go to a show and not sell a damned thing because they are unprepared for the "real world"?....I've seen it many times, and it is ugly in a way that the Forums will never be. A little of what goes on in Customs goes a long way to helping makers see a very serious reality...and YOU ARE NOT HELPING.

I would surmise that your lording over that forum is not helping either.

 

[prsfx]

To enforce rules is one thing to offend and harass is another

Well said. It is unfortunate this mod has turned a forum into a My Way or the Highway atmosphere. It was made absolutely clear to me the forums are not for discussion. Really makes me wonder how many others there are...

 

[Karda]

Karda, in the interest of open and fair discussion, when the quoted section above was written and appended by yours truly it was in response to issues we were having with abuses (both intentional and unintentional) by members on the site...but I didn't consider the inclusion of moderators into the mix when I drafted it.

My point is that it was created to help our members understand who could do what at a given level of membership. What it doesn't address is how those privileges would apply to someone who was both a moderator and a manufacturer, dealer or the like.

We may have to get a ruling from Spark to clarify that particular circumstance.

All manufacturers, Knifemakers/Craftsmen/ Service providers with their own forum are also moderators, are they not?

 

[Les Robertson]

Hey STeven

Excellent points:

That should be clearly stated. You are not only a Moderator, but a SuperModerator....there should be no question as to what voice you are speaking with. Also, if you are going to speak as a regular member, you should refrain from infracting members who disagree with you, otherwise, it is an abuse of the powers that you have been granted.

Absolutely frigging right:

Those bystanders pay a lot of knifemaker expenses, Karda. Knifemakers have many avenues to post wares....The KNIFEMAKERS section and GALLERY for starters. A knifemaker posting a photo in Customs is fair game for critique....It is where the rubber hits the road, big boy land. Like to see a maker go to a show and not sell a damned thing because they are unprepared for the "real world"?....I've seen it many times, and it is ugly in a way that the Forums will never be. A little of what goes on in Customs goes a long way to helping makers see a very serious reality...and YOU ARE NOT HELPING.

As a knife maker if you don't want your knives subject to critique...don't post them.

What Karda (because of his limited knowledge of custom knives...which is the reason he cannot appreciate the invaluable information being provided by members such as STeven and JP) likes to ride in and try to defend those he feels are being picked on. Then when people disagree with his assessment...he likes to slap their wrists. Sounds like a guy who is in the position of authority for the first time...or just immature.

Karda has been had violations filed against him tonight. Specifically for taking a post in Allen Newberry's thread off topic. I have talked with Elliot about his as well as Karda. Personally a moderator should understand that if you are going to file infractions against other members then you (especially as a Moderator) should know the rules and not violate them yourselves.

This was a perfect example of what Steven is talking about. STeven gave his critique....Karda apparently didn't like the "style" that STeven used (not that the critique was not valid) . At which point he chastised STeven for his tone, then went off topic to talk about a particular knife that HI was selling like crazy.

Shouldn't advertising for factory knives be done in the factory knife forums? Again, isn't this something a Super Moderator should know?

 

[prsfx]

Jeez, it's like watching a 10 year old who is about to have their sucker taken away...they'll dig deep and leave a body count if it means keeping that control.

 

[Kohai999]

Imagine how this sounds to others coming from you.
It shouldnt have to have blown over, it shouldnt be happening in the first place.
The idea that i think i'm speaking to downtrodden masses is laughable considering the source and it's habitual abusive behaviors

You write that like you believe it. The Custom Forum is for those interested in custom knives, not those that disdain custom knives and those that collect them. We have our own way of doing things, just like the Traditional Forums have their way, and believe me(from experience) they are different ways. Gus, Elliott, Carl, the makers....in Traditionals...that is a group of people actively engaged in traditional knives....no one call that a clique, but you seem to think there is this evil cabal united in controlling Customs. Money controls customs....that is the reality. I don't have enough money to control customs. You call me abusive, others call me abrasive, but no one has ever, ever said that I am not good for the custom knife community....unless it was you. Talk about bystander.

Not my fault if a few people cannot distinguish between the actions of moderation and of an individual voicing his own opinion.

That is disingenuous and you really can't be serious.

I would surmise that your lording over that forum is not helping either.

I participate, and have an active interest in custom knives, both financial and personal...it isn't a hobby, it is a lifestyle...that isn't lording.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Les Robertson]

PRSFX,

Who told you this:

It was made absolutely clear to me the forums are not for discussion. Really makes me wonder how many others there are...

?

 

[Les Robertson]

Karda,

View Post
Not my fault if a few people cannot distinguish between the actions of moderation and of an individual voicing his own opinion.

You keep tap dancing. Surely if you are right...everyone else is wrong!