Why is it ok? (actions of particular moderators)

[prsfx]

Looks to me like you got a warning for insulting another member, not for "voicing information". Here is your post for which you received your one and only infraction:


Insulting? Kinda like Karda did in the fragment of what took place in the post of mine you are refering too? Maybe you should read the rest of that post before you jump into this one. But, I am glad you too are helping to prove the point of this post, thank you.

 

[Karda]

Insulting? Kinda like Karda did in the fragment of what took place in the post of mine you are refering too? Maybe you should read the rest of that post before you jump into this one. But, I am glad you too are helping to prove the point of this post, thank you.

Yes, telling you to ask KH questions yourself about your "Goatskin" covered scabbard was clearly insulting. Also, you were warned, not infracted.

Since i'm being accused of stalking/harrassment/abuse perhaps we should take a look at the accusors infraction records also?

Knarfeng, im going to fix the quote in your post, so that it is brought into proper context.

 

[prsfx]

Yes, telling you to ask KH questions yourself about your "Goatskin" covered scabbard was clearly insulting. Also, you were warned, not infracted.

Since i'm being accused of stalking/harrassment/abuse perhaps we should take a look at the accusors infraction records also?

Knarfeng, im going to fix the quote in your post, so that it is brought in proper context.

Knock yourself out. While your at it, see how many of those infractions were issued by you. What is insulting is when a conversation is interupted for an uneducated opinion, such as: "You should probably ask a few questions yourself. AFAIK, they sell no khukuri with goatskin on the sheath". I don't know you, why did you publicly demean me on something you were unaware of, and continue to barade me afterward even after seeing the proof? Oh, let me guess, you didn't read it because it was not from HI, which means it cant be true. Instead of filling up this thread with another unproductive arguement with you, what exactly do want from me, and where do you see this thread going? The last childish bout with you wore me out, I really dont want to go into another one.

 

[Karda]

Knock yourself out. While your at it, see how many of those infractions were issued by you. What is insulting is when a conversation is interupted for an uneducated opinion, such as: "You should probably ask a few questions yourself. AFAIK, they sell no khukuri with goatskin on the sheath". I don't know you, why did you publicly demean me on something you were unaware of, and continue to barade me afterward even after seeing the proof? Oh, let me guess, you didn't read it because it was not from HI, which means it cant be true. Instead of filling up this thread with another unproductive arguement with you, what exactly do want from me, and where do you see this thread going? The last childish bout with you wore me out, I really dont want to go into another one.

Of the 5 people accusing me in this thread i've issued exactly 3 warnings and 2 infractions to the lot of them, one for repeated behaviors and you are one of the warnings. One accusor is 5 points away from banning without anything from me.

As to the thread you are referring to, you were told the same thing as i told you and were tersely corrected by at least two other members. The link you provided clearly stated the scabbards were water buffalo leather covered. There was only one person showing childishness in that thread.

 

[prsfx]

Of the 5 people accusing me in this thread i've issued exactly 3 warnings and 2 infractions to the lot of them, one for repeated behaviors and you are one of the warnings. One accusor is 5 points away from banning without anything from me.

As to the thread you are referring to, you were told the same thing as i told you and were tersely corrected by at least two other members. There was only one person showing childishness in that thread.

You've almost got it...after reading that information I didn't hear back from them....again, I ask you: "what exactly do want from me, and where do you see this thread going?"

 

[1234]

prsfx !

After reading that thread with the goatskin , and after that warning you were pretty close to this

"
Sassin' the Mods

The moderators at BFC are unpaid volunteers. They donate their time and energy out of a love for the community.

When you sass, backtalk or otherwise give them hell, you make an already difficult job even less enjoyable. So, instead of that, we're going to remove you from the site. If you can't be polite, leave.

There will be no warnings issued for this infraction. It is worth 40 points towards your total. It does not expire
"
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/faq.php?faq=faq_infractions_lists#faq_faq_infractions_sassin

So I think Karda was being more than fair to you.


1234,,,,,

 

[prsfx]

Are you saying mods should not be held accountable for those same principles? Like...


Insulted other members

This should be self explanatory.

This infraction can be issued as a warning. It lasts for 30 days. It counts as 5 points towards your total
Auction / Deal / Bargain Spotting

This is a variation of the "no spam" rules that we have. We know you found a great deal on a Ninja Death Tool 3000 - we don't care.

If that dealer wants to advertise on BladeForums.com, encourage them to purchase a Dealer membership here instead of giving them free advertising.

This infraction can be issued as a warning and is worth 10 points towards your total. It expires in 12 months.
Trolling

Don't troll up threads looking to start controversy, take potshots at people, or otherwise hit and run.

For a more complete definition, please see the Wikipedia entry for Internet Trolls

This infraction may be issued as a warning, and is worth 10 points towards your total. It expires in 30 days. It can be extended if this behavior persists.

Where are you going with this?

 

[Karda]

Are you saying mods should not be held accountable for those same principles? Like...


Insulted other members

This should be self explanatory.

This infraction can be issued as a warning. It lasts for 30 days. It counts as 5 points towards your total
Auction / Deal / Bargain Spotting

This is a variation of the "no spam" rules that we have. We know you found a great deal on a Ninja Death Tool 3000 - we don't care.

If that dealer wants to advertise on BladeForums.com, encourage them to purchase a Dealer membership here instead of giving them free advertising.

This infraction can be issued as a warning and is worth 10 points towards your total. It expires in 12 months.
Trolling

Don't troll up threads looking to start controversy, take potshots at people, or otherwise hit and run.

For a more complete definition, please see the Wikipedia entry for Internet Trolls

This infraction may be issued as a warning, and is worth 10 points towards your total. It expires in 30 days. It can be extended if this behavior persists.

Where are you going with this?

None of you really wants me to get going on the issues brought up here.
You don't want me to get started on issues of "standards" and "fairness"
You don't want to get me started about being able to take what you dish out.
You don't want me to bring up issues of "principles"

 

[prsfx]

None of you really wants me to get going on the issues brought up here.
You don't want me to get started on issues of "standards" and "fairness"
You don't want to get me started about being able to take what you dish out.
You don't want me to bring up issues of "principles"

This is exactly the point. Thank you again Karda. What do you want to hear? What exactly is it that you want the entire forum to know? Go ahead, why dont you tell us. We have a quite a following on this little thread that again has gone way off course. You are alpha male? No one here knows as much about blades as you do? You could single handedly beat any one of us to a pulp with the touch of a key? What is it? One thing I can guarantee, face to face you would not be so brash. So go ahead, with your mod status and HI statistics, push your tiny weight around like you are better than everyone here. I for one, am done with you. Bash me all you want in this thread, and anything else in this forum for all I care. "I do not care what you think." Leave me alone, leave the people who started this thread alone. The humiliation you have caused me and obviously many others is enough. What do you want from us? Again, since I have asked already many times...yes, go back and check...what do you want from us? No, you are not better than us, or HI who makes the blades you so eagerly defend. Stop criticizing us for having knowledge that you do not posses. And for the love of god, please.....stop picking on what you cannot comprehend. The thread is yours, I know how you like to have the last word, being super mod an' all. Good luck in your ventures here, please, do not interfere again in my business here at this forum. As a Newbe here I can only hope the future of this forum does not have the same "welcome" as I have. I have met many other adult mods here that handle themselves as mature influences and hope your future holds the same.

All the best,

PRSFX

 

[Doug C]

I have met many other adult mods here that handle themselves as mature influences and hope your future holds the same.

There are adult mods here !

DC...

 

[prsfx]

There are adult mods here !

DC...

Shocking...I know, but it's true!!

 

[Les Robertson]

PRSFX,

Careful here....remember what Karda wrote:

You don't want to get me started about being able to take what you dish out.

You see Karda can say or imply whatever he wants. While members if they in some way shape or form disagree (and of course if you do not fully agree with Karda...then you disagree). At that point he warns you or gives you an infraction. Which is fair because you can do the same to him. No wait that not right. All you can do is report him and then wait for a response.

I wonder what the rules and regulations are (since Karda purports himself to be an expert....and trust me you do not want to get him going ) How many complaints have to be submitted before he is removed as a moderator? Or at least not one with the power to issue warnings and infractions when you disagree with him.

Perhaps we could get spark or another super mod to weigh in on that.

 

[Kohai999]

I already said that I would be patient and wait to see how this all shook out. I'm not going to be baited by the subject SuperMod into a continued discourse until I see how it shakes out.

I will say that he posted in a thread about a Jason Knight khukuri in customs created by Joe Paranee, and that was a bit of a poke with a stick, but whatever...it is what it is.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Blues]

I already said that I would be patient and wait to see how this all shook out. I'm not going to be baited by the subject SuperMod into a continued discourse until I see how it shakes out.

I will say that he posted in a thread about a Jason Knight khukuri in customs created by Joe Paranee, and that was a bit of a poke with a stick, but whatever...it is what it is.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

Gents, let me briefly make a couple of points just to keep you up to date and allay anyone's concerns that anything is being swept under the rug.

First...the issues regarding any real or perceived conflicts of interest in regard to an association with a company or manufacturer and representing this site are being discussed at length.
I am certain that the issue will be resolved to everyone's benefit.

On the matter of moderator behavior and decorum...you may use the "report" button to send a message regarding any post which either violates the forums terms of service, ethics, protocol or propriety. Doesn't matter if the post was made by me or another super mod or the newest registered member on the site. It will be looked at and addressed. If action is required, it will be taken.
Spark, while generally pretty supportive of the moderating staff has not shown himself to be a shrinking violet when it comes to admonishing staff and issuing executive decrees. If removal of a mod is necessary he will do so.

Beyond the report button this sub-forum serves as the area to post up threads on topics needing to be addressed that effect the forums.

Patience is appreciated while the issues are hashed out so as to not further muddy the waters. This is not to say that any additional salient issues should not be addressed.

Thanks.

 

[Les Robertson]

This is primarily for the makers reading this....but all should benefit given Karda's treatment of STeven's critique in Allen Newberry's thread. And by All I include Karda...as I suspect he has never been asked for a critique on a custom knife from a maker.

About 20 years ago I had a knife maker approach me and ask me for an honest critique of his work. I told him what most knife makers get told...looks good, great knife, etc.

It was at that point I found out that makers are aware of the mistakes on their knives. Even though most give every knife their best. Most know there is room for improvement.

I handed the knife back to the maker and which point he said "How many would you like." He knew what he was doing...he caught me lying and he let me know he knew I was lying. He then followed up with " Because I respect your opinion I came to you for an honest critique at which point you treated me like a child. You patted me on the head and said "very nice" and left it at that.

At that point I apologized and asked if I could try again. At that point I picked out every mistake.

He thanked me and said "Honest critical critiques can be invaluable to a maker. It points out our mistakes and allows us to address and correct these mistakes in a more timely manner. Not making the same mistake over and over again."

I took his words to heart and from then on every time a maker asked me my opinion I picked his knife apart. As word spread of how brutal my critiques were fewer makers asked me to review their knives.

Long term benefits were exceptional. As the only ones who approached me for critiques were very serious about their work and truly wanted to improve and not looking for platitudes. Over half of those who approached me I ended up doing business with. Strong serious critical critiques like STeven provides will help both makers and customers.

As how they respond to this critique will help the collectors separate those to watch and those to dismiss. The custom knife market is a very competitive. Any critique that a maker can receive that is honest and will help the maker improve is of great value to that maker. Even if it is given without a "kumaya" attitude.

 

[Professor]

Why is it alright for a person to critique a knifemakers work in that forum so rudely and harshly so as to cause dissent and potentially harm that makers business in the process?

For the record..... i was not acting as a moderator in that thread, i was making commentary as a regular member. My commentary also was not advertising, but a comment on rude commentary and on how popular this style of blade is in reaction to your question of "why".

90% at least, of the knifemakers on this forum will not post their wares in that forum due to the actions and opinions of a few people. That forum is for their work to be considerately discussed, not ripped apart by a clique of bystanders.

As to my supposed advertising, as a manufacturers rep and moderator i think i've interpreted the rules correctly:
*The only members who may promote or display their personally built knives, their products, or services in the discussion threads, signature, home page listing or their user profile are "Manufacturers", "Dealers", and "Knifemaker/Craftsman/Service Provider".*

You've got some excellent points, Karda. I would add that as a collector of custom knives for over 20 years, from $100 pieces to Loveless', I won't touch the Custom Knives subforum with a ten foot cattleprod.

It's as if there's an air about it, a Bladeforums "upper-tier" as it were, and you've got to be very careful about what you say and how you say it. Almost a membership requirement to a forum within a forum.

Some of these "legends in their own minds" need to chill, and I'm not directing that at you, Kohai99, I promise. It's directed at the "purveyors" who think they wrote the book and the collectors who would benefit from an enima.

Just my observations as a long-time member here, and I shudder to think about the prospective new members who take us for a test drive and go to that subforum first.

Prof.

 

[Blues]

Les, I agree with you in most every way as that has been my personal experience as well. The makers for whom I have the most respect and admiration are the ones that are not content to sit on their laurels and say this is "good enough". I am proud to say that several makers I can also call friends have asked me for my honest opinions on their work and not to spare the rod as necessary.

It's only when we come to the last line of your post that the crux of the earlier situation comes to the fore.

Regardless of whether or not Karda has ever been asked by a custom maker for an evaluation of his work is not the point as I see it..Karda (rightly or wrongly, opinions obviously vary here) was, in my view, merely saying that there were more diplomatic ways of making the same points that STeven brought up in his terse comments about the knife in question.

I think STeven is very knowledgeable about knives, custom knives in particular, and I have discussed the topic with him both in person and on the phone and via PM.

Needless to say, we don't always agree about the method of delivery of his views but that's just the way it is. It's led to a donnybrook here and there but it's pretty much water under the bridge.

My point is that attacking Karda for his trying to protect the feelings of the maker is not the same thing as whether or not he has anything to contribute to a maker in need of an honest critique.

Personally, I try to give the most honest feedback to a maker I can while trying not to leave him feeling like he just got an enema.
(Fully realizing that we each have our own style and some nurses are rougher than others.)

 

[Blues]

Hmmm, just going back after posting my comments and it seems both me and the Professor have nether parts on our minds. Just sayin'...

 

[Les Robertson]

To Prof,

Some of these "legends in their own minds" need to chill, and I'm not directing that at you, Kohai99, I promise. It's directed at the "purveyors" who think they wrote the book and the collectors who would benefit from an enima.

First, I did write the book on collecting custom knives....the only one...let me repeat that...the only one that has ever been written. But not sure what an enima is?

Second, Im with you I have limited my time in the Custom Forum. Because as you say there are too many people there who have owned knives from $100 to Loveless knives and think because they have invested some time and money. That makes them some kind of expert. Perhaps that individual could use two things...first a dictionary and second an enema.

While I'm not in the Custom forum very much anymore. I know I appreciate you staying out of there.

You and others fail to realize that no matter the forum or the walk of life there are always "Upper Tier" individuals. What puts them in that Upper-Tier is their education of the subject matter and their decades of experience. They are in the Upper Tier not because they are smarter than you but because they posses superior knowledge of the subject matter at hand.

If you have an issue with those people than more than likely the issue is actually yours.

Remember....everyone pities the weak....jealousy has to be earned.

 

[Professor]

Hmmm, just going back after posting my comments and it seems both me and the Professor have nether parts on our minds. Just sayin'...

My mind occasionally drifts to the anatomical undercarriage. It's my x-man power.