why is the 0566 2nd rate?

Joined
Dec 26, 2010
Messages
1,091
I guess I can understand why the 0550 doesn't just have a smaller size than the 0560, removing the 3D machined scales probably helps bring the price down from $325 to $250. But why did they have to change out the titanium locking scale to a steel scale for the 0566? Can't I want a more compact, shorter blade, version with the same high-end materials? I would have preferred the same build materials as its big brothers, and I would have been okay with a higher msrp. I don't really have much interest in steel frame-locks, especially at the $120+ price range. The Sage 2 and AG Russel Gentleman's Frame Lock have really set my expectation on what price I should be able to get titanium frame locks for.
 
Last edited:
I had no idea the 0566 was in the works, but I'm very excited to be honest. I sold my 0560 because I wasn't a fan of the Titanium to blade contact. I'm aware that I'm very much in the minority on this issue, but I certainly prefer a steel to steel contact for the feel, sound and longevity. With the 0566 being both smaller and with a steel frame lock, I'm stoked and this just hit my short list.
 
Last edited:
I guess I can understand why the 0550 doesn't just have a smaller size than the 0560, removing the 3D machined scales probably helps bring the price down from $325 to $250. But why did they have to change out the titanium locking scale to a steel scale for the 0566? Can't I want a more compact, shorter blade, version with the same high-end materials? I would have preferred the same build materials as its big brothers, and I would have been okay with a higher msrp. I don't really have much interest in steel frame-locks, especially at the $120+ price range. The Sage 2 and AG Russel Gentleman's Frame Lock have really set my expectation on what price I should be able to get titanium frame locks for.
.
I hear Hinderer makes something like what you're looking for:)
 
One major downside that I just realized is the assisted opening instead of the KVT. Damn, it could have been perfect. :-(
 
I think the 0566 is a bit refreshing, and nothing 2nd class about it. And AOs are fine too. Steel frame lock vs Ti and AO vs kvt does not necessarily draw the line between 2nd class and above. Price points play a great factor. Also, we all want something different now and then.
 
Here I was hoping for the 0566 to be unclassable, with a platinum frame lock and walrus tusk scales.

All joking aside, I feel that the 0566 is a great shot at a smaller 0560 in a much more reasonable price range. Had KAI made it in Ti, there would be folks in your shoes upset that the price point was too high.

And who is to say that they won't release a Ti exclusive run with a fancy shmancy blade steel someday?
 
The goal of the 0566 was to get it into as many hands as possible. If you had the KVT and the titanium lock side, you would raise the MSRP, which means higher street prices and you're less likely to get people to buy it at that "high" of a price. You need to realize that the people on BladeForums are somewhat of a minority. There are people outside of BladeForums that are Kershaw/ZT fans and KAI can't just make knives that would attract to us. They need to find a happy medium with fans all over. I think they did a great job with the 0566.

Like what's already been said up above, who knows, they MIGHT release a version with KVT and a titanium lockside.
 
This was originally posted by Jimmer when the same questions came up a few months ago. All of this has been discussed at length already.Hope it's ok to copy/paste his response.

jimmer_5
Moderator
Join Date
Jan 2007
Posts
1,206
I meant to post in this thread two days ago, but due to an Internet connection glitch, I lost my long, detailed response into cyberspace. I want to give you a little information that should clarify a few things:

1. Stainless Steel Lockside - I'll admit, this is a new concept for a ZT knife. We knew there might be some people who might not like the idea. But let me ask you this - would you really prefer a bulkier liner lock construction, or a steel framelock that brings this knife closer to an XM-18? Early on in the process, it was decided that this knife would be a value product. Our goal was to make this knife cool AND affordable. We were shooting for the same price point as an 0350, and that limits our options a bit. Titanium would cost too much. Thick liner lock/G-10 construction would work, but it would result in a bulkier knife, and a knife that was less similar to the original 0560. So we decided to try it as a steel framelock. Sure, steel is a little more heavy than titanium, but this is not a huge knife. The knife is heavier than it would have been with Ti, but when you handle it in person, you will realize that it's not as bad as you would think. I heard very few complaints about the knife from the people who handled it at SHOT show. So, my point is, you had two choices - bulky liner lock or sleek steel framelock. We thought the framelock was a better choice, and we stand by this decision. Rick wanted one in his pocket right away, so I get the impression he liked it too

2. Size - We played around with several sizes for this knife, and the 3.25" blade length turned out to be the magic size. It is just big enough for big hands, and also works well for smaller hands. It's also quite slim - just under 0.44" thick. The knife will make a fantastic EDC, and it's just the right size. I understand that the size will be a frustration for those who live in states with blade length restrictions, but we wanted it to be the right size, and 3.25" was right.

3. Price - We need knives in all price points, and in this case, a less expensive version made a lot of sense. We could have made a more expensive knife with 3D machining, and titanium handles, but I really believe you will find that this knife offers quite a lot at a great price.

4. Manufacturability - It's not secret that our factory is very busy. One of our goals for this knife was to make it easier to run through the factory. A well thought out design can be easier to produce, and as a result, we can get it out to the customers faster. Everybody wins.


I really believe in this design as it stands. I am a knife snob myself, and I love high end materials as much as anyone. However, when you handle this knife, I really think that most of us will find that the lack of titanium is really not such a big deal as it might seem now.
 
I guess I can understand why the 0550 doesn't just have a smaller size than the 0560, removing the 3D machined scales probably helps bring the price down from $325 to $250. But why did they have to change out the titanium locking scale to a steel scale for the 0566? Can't I want a more compact, shorter blade, version with the same high-end materials? I would have preferred the same build materials as its big brothers, and I would have been okay with a higher msrp. I don't really have much interest in steel frame-locks, especially at the $120+ price range. The Sage 2 and AG Russel Gentleman's Frame Lock have really set my expectation on what price I should be able to get titanium frame locks for.

You can want whatever you feel like, but ZT doesn't exist solely to make knives for you. Many people (myself included) wouldn't be able to afford it if it had machined Ti and KVT, as this would drive the cost up to essentially the same as the 0560. IIRC the 0350 is ZT's best selling model, and it's a steel linerlock.
 
I guess I can understand why the 0550 doesn't just have a smaller size than the 0560, removing the 3D machined scales probably helps bring the price down from $325 to $250. But why did they have to change out the titanium locking scale to a steel scale for the 0566? Can't I want a more compact, shorter blade, version with the same high-end materials? I would have preferred the same build materials as its big brothers, and I would have been okay with a higher msrp. I don't really have much interest in steel frame-locks, especially at the $120+ price range. The Sage 2 and AG Russel Gentleman's Frame Lock have really set my expectation on what price I should be able to get titanium frame locks for.

I think might be beating a dead horse yet again, but a lot of misinformation and speculation in your post ... According to whom is the 0566 second class? Did you read or bear witness to such a discussion, or is it just your opinion? I can assure you that aside from a few impatient individuals early on in the release, or those unfortunate folks that live overseas and have to get their items online; no one paid $325 for a 0560. You do realize there is a vast difference between the actual retail price on something and the MSRP right?
Titanium isn't cheap, have you every looked at the prices for bar or sheet for knifemaker grade Ti? Steel on the lock side is exactly what should have been used to drop the cost. The knife is pretty much the same blade steel, the same overall shape and dimensions just smaller. As with anything, if you don't like it do not buy it. There are plenty of knives that fit your criteria as it is. You've already mentioned a couple. You can always go custom and have something made to your hearts desire.
 
As much as I would of liked to at least of seen 3d machining on the frame lock side no matter what material they used, I still preordered it. I would love to see a limited edition or maybe a 567 with kvt bearing system, carbonfiber, and at lease some 3d machining on the frame lock. And titanium would be nice too. ;). I look forward to it and I'm impatiently waiting!!
 
Let's take it easy on the OP - I understand his feelings, they have been expressed by a number of people. However, this has already been discussed at length, and the 0566 is what it is. I'm sure the same kind of complaints were made when the 0350 was released, but the 0350 is a wildly popular knife, and I believe the 0566 will be as well.
 
The 0566 took a page out of the 0350. Take a solid titanium frame lock folder (030x and 056x) and scale it down with less expensive material, easier manufacturablility plus easier handling (size and SpeedSafe) and affordability for the average person. The 0350 sells a lot of units with 17 different models to date! ZT hopes to replicate that success and I think they have quite a winner on their hands. Not all knives are all things to all people under all circumstances.
 
While the 0566 is not on my short list, its at a great price point for a lot of folks. Hell, I might pick one up for just that very reason. Maybe there will be several variations down the road, it would be nice and would peak a lot of interest.
 
First of all, I apologize for not doing an in-depth enough search for previous discussions of this topic. I only did a cursory search of recent posts. I should have done more research, because these responses have informed me of other differences between the 0560, 0550, and 0566 that I hadn't noticed, which somewhat change my opinion.

Even though I am leaning towards higher-end knives these days, buying an XM-18 3" is out of the realm of sanity (at least in my current mindset). The Hinderer design, material choice, and aesthetic is (obviously) very appealing, so ZT's 0550 & 0560 options are pretty awesome, and I applaud them for making those options available at a more modest price range. While I like large blades, they are unfortunately impractical for me to EDC due to laws and sheeple, so these days I'm trying to keep my purchases, especially the higher price purchases to knives that I'll be comfortable carrying everyday.

I admit that I used the possibly inflammatory term "2nd class" to get more viewers and hopefully more responses to this thread, but I'm not sure that it's entirely unwarranted. I should say that I don't say that in a derogatory way about ZT or the 0566, simply as a way of describing/classifying it. I guess I was thinking that the goal of these 3 knives was to be different sizes in a knife-family of similar design, materials, and quality (akin to the budget Persistence family by Spyderco). With this view, it seemed to me that the 0566 was deviating from the 0550 more than the 0550 did from the 0560, and I was disappointed that it wasn't exactly what I was thinking/hoping it was going to be.

After reading some of your responses and then going to reread the technical specs/features more carefully, I now realize that size was never the only real difference between the knives, and that ZT's goal was to offer a range of features, finishes, and budgets as well as size. Thanks for the informative responses guys. I will keep my fingers crossed and my eyes open for a limited edition 0556 with the features/specs that I want.
 
I mainly pre-ordered the 0566 because of it's steel lockbar, I'm sure it will be a little tank of a knife and I can't wait to use it.
 
I had no idea the 0566 was in the works, but I'm very excited to be honest. I sold my 0560 because I wasn't a fan of the Titanium to blade contact. I'm aware that I'm very much in the minority on this issue, but I certainly prefer a steel to steel contact for the feel, sound and longevity. With the 0566 being both smaller and with a steel frame lock, I'm stoked and this just hit my short list.

Me either. I'm an obsessive/compulsive about flipping. The steel lock or a steel insert are much better for me unless it's supposed to be an "eyelash knife" like the Ken Onion Eros. But I'm careful not to flip that very much.
 
While I like large blades, they are unfortunately impractical for me to EDC due to laws and sheeple, so these days I'm trying to keep my purchases, especially the higher price purchases to knives that I'll be comfortable carrying everyday.

What!? So I shouldn't have this 0801 in my pocket!? Aw poo...

I admit that I used the possibly inflammatory term "2nd class" to get more viewers and hopefully more responses to this thread, but I'm not sure that it's entirely unwarranted. I should say that I don't say that in a derogatory way about ZT or the 0566, simply as a way of describing/classifying it.

That's kind of a silly move. It kind of says that you were partially trolling. That's not very nice.

Of course I don't say that in a derogatory way. :p

With this view, it seemed to me that the 0566 was deviating from the 0550 more than the 0550 did from the 0560, and I was disappointed that it wasn't exactly what I was thinking/hoping it was going to be.

Well, keep in mind that the 0550 is a different design than the 0560. The 0560 was modeled after the XM-18 with Rick's spearpoint grind. The 0550 is a version of his "Camp Knife" design. If you do a quick search, you'll find it, and see that the 0550 is pretty close to it. So, it's worth noting that the 0550 was not a smaller or cheaper version of the 0560, especially since the 0551 was the very first Hinderer design that ZT produced. The spirit of each design is very different, and in being so, translate to very different pieces.
 
Gotta say, in almost every way, I think KAI NAILED it with the 0566.

Smaller than the 560: +
Assisted: +
Elmax: +
Steel lock: slight +
Less expensive: makes the steel lock more +
absent KVT: neutral (not really needed with the assist)

Yep, I'm liking the 0566, looking forward to it coming out. I just hope I can afford to put the money out for it when it is released.
 
Back
Top