Why is there a reluctance to ship outside of CONUS?

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miguet said:
Some BF members are "conus only" and "lower 48 only" shippers. Hawaii and Alaska are fraught with danger of the unknown. I live in Guam, an unincorporated territory of the U.S. with USPS offices all over the island. Same USPS shipping cost as those between states in the U.S. Regardless, I get "I said no foreign countries" - replies when I explain it to a seller. That's their prerogative.
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This is definitely a problem for some. In a great many cases I think it is ignorance on the part of the seller(though they do have a right to sell to whomever they choose). Ignorance was certainly why I used to put CONUS in my ads. I was just copying others form. Latter I realized that I could ship priority flat rate to all the US including territories and military bases. I then changed to US in my ads. It should be noted that this only works for flat rate, otherwise your charges are based on zones. All you can do is try and explain it to the seller, and hopefully all works out.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
All US states, territories, and military post offices are equal in the eyes of the USPS.
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But in country is a different thing. The only time I've lost a package with the USPS is when it was shipped out of the US 50. There is a difference when it comes to a state and a territory.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
One instance is no proof of anything.
Especislly with none of the significant details available.
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I understand the statistical insignificance of such an instance. But it did happen. The details of the transaction aren't even available to the USPS office that conducted said transaction. They have no idea what happened :rolleyes:. The package was never found. I refunded the persons money. I'll never ship to Puerto Rico again, USPS or otherwise. All my other USPS transactions have ended perfectly fine and I readily use USPS over all other shipping methods without hesitation. The place you ship to matters, I doubt it was a USPS error that my package was "lost". Talking with the folks that ran this particular USPS office in PR made it very clear they had no intention of finding my package. Not a huge loss for me. The item wasn't even worth insuring. I did learn a lesson though...
 
NinjaRyder0920 said:
And just to note, I have shipped to ^miguet^ without issue in the past, so don't hesitate about Guam folks...:thumbup:
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Guam is a US territory. Its just like shipping to FL. People say CONUS - that means lower 48 states. "I don't think that means what you think it means." The should be saying only to US and territories, because flat rate its all the same, it just might take a little longer. International is a totally different animal, and CONUS only is not the same thing as no international sales.
 
knifeswapper said:
This issue has many heads. The ones I have seen personally are:

1) Lack of tracking outside the US leaves proof of delivery complicated. But even then, the recipient can say they got and empty box and the buyer eats it.

2) The recipient can send an email with a "hold harmless" statement and pp/cc could care less. When recipient figures out that someone is going to have to eat a significant amount of money - they file the dispute. Seller eats it.

3) Customs agents like knives. Boxes arrive with customs tape and zero knives. Seller eats it.

4) Fish and Wildlife catches seller sending anything horn, stag, shell, and many woods without declaration and $90 inspection fee. Seller files bankruptcy.

So, although most recipients are stand up folks - it is a tremendous risk and all on the seller.

As to the re-shippers; this was a great idea until the thieves figured out how to manipulate it. Now a crook in the Ukraine gets and account at a re-shipper such that anything shipped to a certain "Suite" at an American re-shipper will be forwarded to them. Then they steal credit cards from all over the EU and Middle East and have purchased knives shipped to re-shipper. By the time the first credit card owner files the dispute (a few weeks), the sellers have thousands of dollars worth of knives (sent to a US address) on their way to the Ukraine. Seller figures out it is a re-shipper and calls them. The re-shipper confirms that the "Billing" address is not even the same country they are sending the knives to; but kindly cancels the recipients account. This does the seller no good as they can't recall the shipments. All they can do is cancel an account of a non-existent person; and all the crook has to do is open another account. Seller eats it.

It does stink for those recipients who are stand up and have a smooth process to get products for the US. But there is no way for the seller to know who these recipients are; as nobody is as believable as a crook.
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This, 100%. I have a personal policy that I try to follow to the best of my ability, which is that I do not tend to place myself in positions where I can be taken advantage of. A US seller who sells knives overseas is generally in a vulnerable place 100% of the time. You have to hope your knife gets there, you have to hope that the country's Customs/Mail people aren't scumbags. You have to hope that the person you sent the knife to isn't a scumbag. Any of those checks fail, you have zero recourse, and you're out the money and the knife. No thanks.

I've been burned once, and that's enough for me. I don't sell outside of the United States, and that's that. Sorry, not sorry.
 
vilePossum said:
Wel... All the objective reasoning is all nice and peachy. Simple fact is however that there is just a resentment from a lot of people to sell to anybody outside the us. Hell, even Canada is often an issue. So what's your problem?
Didn't see any rule upon signup that this forum is just for upright Americans. I was under the impression this forum was mainly for people United buy a common passion, the love for knives. Seems I was wrong.
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This is now multiple times you've made a comment like this. I assume that you're feeling roasty over a US seller who refused to sell to you. Well, thems the breaks, pal. Sorry you didn't like it. Also, there's no issue with folks from other countries being members of this forum. Come one, come all. But there are no requirements for Americans to sell to ANYone they don't want to. If you don't like that, or think that repeated snide comments are going to make people say "Ya know, maybe I AM ok with possibly being scammed! I didn't really need this $500 knife, or the $500 in my hand anyway!", you should rethink that plan. Many people don't like gambling, and when you sell overseas, it's always a gamble. Every time.

Me personally? I'm not a gambler, and I don't sell to folks in foreign countries. Is what it is.
 
neffarious said:
Guam is a US territory. Its just like shipping to FL.
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Um, Florida and a US territory are not the same. One of them is in the United States of America. I've never lost a package shipping to Florida. I have lost packages shipping outside the United States of America. My policy is what it is based on my experience. If others choose to ignore my experience, fine. But it did happen and it has influenced my selling choices.

Quiet said:
This, 100%. I have a personal policy that I try to follow to the best of my ability, which is that I do not tend to place myself in positions where I can be taken advantage of. A US seller who sells knives overseas is generally in a vulnerable place 100% of the time. You have to hope your knife gets there, you have to hope that the country's Customs/Mail people aren't scumbags. You have to hope that the person you sent the knife to isn't a scumbag. Any of those checks fail, you have zero recourse, and you're out the money and the knife. No thanks.

I've been burned once, and that's enough for me. I don't sell outside of the United States, and that's that. Sorry, not sorry.
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Exactly. No amount of "it's the same" or "it's still USPS" will change the fact that I got burned.
 
What do you guys say to the folks who had packages inside the USA stolen in transit; delivered to the wrong address and lost; or when the buyer claims they got an empty package? You don't need to dive too deep into this sub forum to see those incidents again and again.

It's obviously the seller's call on how inconvenienced they want to be but if you educate yourself using this site on where or what not to ship and use the feedback here you'll be ahead of the game. Every day there's huge amounts of traffic including knives crossing the border without any sort of issue.

This does lead into a bit of a Catch-22 in the feedback loop. It's hard to find international sales so it's hard to gain positive feedback. I just got an axe from the exchange. The seller had bumped it repeatedly with no takers so I made him an offer and agreed on paying the extra freight charges vs. his CONUS sale that was freight in the price. I paid via regular Paypal and tracked the package with it's USPS tracking # through the Canada Post website. It arrived after a couple weeks and I gave the seller the good feedback that he deserved. But at that point he lost interest and didn't hit me back. So now I have to wait again till I scope something that I want that and that is from a seller that can export.
 
Canada is by far the easiest non US. They have the tracking system up and going. Many other countries there is no tracking and no insurance available.
I believe they are slowly expanding their tracking system worldwide, so some of the problems with non US shipping may eventually be solved.
 
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craytab said:
Um, Florida and a US territory are not the same. One of them is in the United States of America. I've never lost a package shipping to Florida. I have lost packages shipping outside the United States of America. My policy is what it is based on my experience. If others choose to ignore my experience, fine. But it did happen and it has influenced my selling choices.



Exactly. No amount of "it's the same" or "it's still USPS" will change the fact that I got burned.
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And I've lost one inside the US. You keep making your argument over and over. Its still not fact no matter how many times you repeat it. According to the USPS it's the same thing to Guam, Hawaii or Florida. Only one of those is CONUS. Do you not ship to Alaska either? Its not CONUS.
 
Danke42 said:
What do you guys say to the folks who had packages inside the USA stolen in transit; delivered to the wrong address and lost; or when the buyer claims they got an empty package? You don't need to dive too deep into this sub forum to see those incidents again and again.

It's obviously the seller's call on how inconvenienced they want to be but if you educate yourself using this site on where or what not to ship and use the feedback here you'll be ahead of the game. Every day there's huge amounts of traffic including knives crossing the border without any sort of issue.

This does lead into a bit of a Catch-22 in the feedback loop. It's hard to find international sales so it's hard to gain positive feedback. I just got an axe from the exchange. The seller had bumped it repeatedly with no takers so I made him an offer and agreed on paying the extra freight charges vs. his CONUS sale that was freight in the price. I paid via regular Paypal and tracked the package with it's USPS tracking # through the Canada Post website. It arrived after a couple weeks and I gave the seller the good feedback that he deserved. But at that point he lost interest and didn't hit me back. So now I have to wait again till I scope something that I want that and that is from a seller that can export.
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No doubt it happens. But comparing the amount of loss in country vs out of country is not even an argument. Canada is one of the few countries I would consider shipping to if they buyer agrees to the increased shipping. I have done it a couple times and everything worked out fine. Problems arise when the country is corrupt, has strange laws, or is impoverished. Some places even withing the USPS umbrella have these qualities and I won't ship there for those reasons. Canada does not have these qualities, it is just more expensive.
 
neffarious said:
And I've lost one inside the US. You keep making your argument over and over. Its still not fact no matter how many times you repeat it. According to the USPS it's the same thing to Guam, Hawaii or Florida. Only one of those is CONUS. Do you not ship to Alaska either? Its not CONUS.
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It is a fact that territories are not the United States. I would, and have shipped to Hawaii and Alaska. They are in the United States.
 
craytab said:
No doubt it happens. But comparing the amount of loss in country vs out of country is not even an argument. Canada is one of the few countries I would consider shipping to if they buyer agrees to the increased shipping. I have done it a couple times and everything worked out fine. Problems arise when the country is corrupt, has strange laws, or is impoverished. Some places even withing the USPS umbrella have these qualities and I won't ship there for those reasons. Canada does not have these qualities, it is just more expensive.
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Oh for sure; there are huge red flags for some places. You might as well finance that stranded astronaut for a better chance of not getting ripped off.

As another note; if a seller posts that the knife they're selling has an abalone scale and can't be exported without that fee being added to the price instead of say CONUS only they suddenly go up a notch in the eyes of people browsing the thread. They make a connection and a realizeation of why. On a Kershaw level knife a fee like that will be a deal breaker but on a high dollar custom it just could be the cost of doing business to the right buyer.

I already know stuff costs more here; it's a fact of life.
 
craytab said:
It is a fact that territories are not the United States. I would, and have shipped to Hawaii and Alaska. They are in the United States.
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Once again one example and one had experience. I go back to my statement about a package being lost inside the US and no one at my local PO doing anything about it. From a USPS point of view it's all the same.
 
neffarious said:
Once again one example and one had experience. I go back to my statement about a package being lost inside the US and no one at my local PO doing anything about it. From a USPS point of view it's all the same.
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Yes it is. And one I learned from. Hundreds of packages not lost in the US. One lost shipping to A US Territory. Sorry, but it is just a fact that there will be more missing valuables in a 3rd world country where almost half the citizens are below the poverty line and the unemployment rate is more than double ours. If you or others want to send your stuff to places that don't have the same standards as we do despite using the same service, be my guest, I learned not to. US Territories are not the United States.

This will be my last post discussing the matter with you as it is pointless. Disagree with my opinion but don't tell me that my experience is not valid.

^Changed my mind. I think a place with 14 times our murder rate is slightly different enough to warrant a response.
 
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You just called the US territories third world countries. LoL. Thanks I needed that. US territories are the United States. The can travel here without a Visa. I'm glad you're done because you information is so far off base, except for your personal loss, which I can sympathized with.
 
neffarious said:
You just called the US territories third world countries. LoL. Thanks I needed that. US territories are the United States. The can travel here without a Visa. I'm glad you're done because you information is so far off base, except for your personal loss, which I can sympathized with.
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Glad I could give you a laugh.

By any measure, the US territories in the Caribbean are far worse crime wise than any state in our union and our country as a whole. Let's just look at the murder rates. The murder rate in Puerto Rico is almost 7 times higher than in the US. Virgin Islands? Almost 14 times higher. That is 26.5 and 52.6 per 100,000 people respectively. The US as a whole is 3.8. The only state that is over 10 is Louisiana. Want to understand the differences even more between our Territories and our Country? Go look up other trouble indicators such as education level, poverty level, and crime rate. Tell me shipping to Puerto Rico is the same as shipping within the US after looking at the actual facts of the situation. Other country's territories, depending on the area, have high rates of nasty stuff as well. Not as bad as our territories mind you. Seems we aren't doing a great job ruling. Then again, Guam has a very low murder rate, lower than the US. Where you ship, territory or otherwise, maters. Territories are just that, not our country.
 
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