Why is there no other options for the clip position on the military?

hardheart said:
The why is because it is an old design. Length is certainly not a reason with all the 4"+ folders out there with tip up mountings. The Endura, Resilience and Police show how much of a fabrication that theory is.
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What year was the Military first introduced?
 
CrimsonTideShooter said:
Most people don't think about the most obvious reason.......

It doesn't have full liners. If you look closely at liners you'll see that the ONLY position that the clip can be tapped for is right hand, tip down.
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They change liners set up often, sometimes without introducing new models or versions of models. The reason- I believe Sal actually explained on the spyderco forums- was knife manipulation. Deployment from the yip up position requires a lot of manipulation because of the handle and blade length. The liner issue is easily altered, though I doubt they would attempt to add more weight to it.
 
CrimsonTideShooter said:
Most people don't think about the most obvious reason.......

It doesn't have full liners. If you look closely at liners you'll see that the ONLY position that the clip can be tapped for is right hand, tip down.
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While true on existing Militaries, I'd say that it probably was a decision made during the designing process. Besides, adding a small steel plate for the clip screws to thread into would be fairly trivial.
 
C.M.L said:
I understand....but I'm not asking for much, for one I might have bought one if they had tip up carry. Can't be the only one that thinks like this.
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Actually, for the reasons mentioned here, what you're asking for is a complete redesign of the knife. I think it's highly likely that the Military 2 will have more clip flexibility, but Sal Glesser has said that while that project is alive there is no timetable for completing the project.

Edit - RD said it already in more detail...
 
Cynic2701 said:
While true on existing Militaries, I'd say that it probably was a decision made during the designing process. Besides, adding a small steel plate for the clip screws to thread into would be fairly trivial.
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Well I'm not talking about a modified knife, I was answering the question that was asked in the OP, which was why can't we have more clip options on the Millie. I answered assuming he meant a bone stock unmodified Military. :)
 
Murdamook said:
They change liners set up often, sometimes without introducing new models or versions of models. The reason- I believe Sal actually explained on the spyderco forums- was knife manipulation. Deployment from the yip up position requires a lot of manipulation because of the handle and blade length. The liner issue is easily altered, though I doubt they would attempt to add more weight to it.
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Well sure a new redesign could allow it, but I am referring to the Military as it is now, bone stock. It's not possible.
 
Cynic2701 said:
While true on existing Militaries, I'd say that it probably was a decision made during the designing process. Besides, adding a small steel plate for the clip screws to thread into would be fairly trivial.
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I'm having trouble getting "trivial" to work with this. ;) First, you need to add steps to inlet one or two new plates at the aft end of the knife. Then you need to redesign the clip so it will work at the other end of the knife and/or the other side of the knife. The Military is already a pretty expensive production folder. I don't know how much this would add to the cost by the time it's for sale at dealers, but I'm not sure it'd be trivial. :)
 
The original clips on the left handed Military were straight. The newer clips are curved. Therefore you can buy right or left handed curved clips from Spyderco. To avoid milling a recess for a clip anchor plate, you could install round threaded inserts on the inside of the G-10 handle. You could alternately install #2X56TPI Helicoils directly into the G-10 from either side of the plate. The clip will look a little odd with the large hole in the middle. The hole allows pivot access, but the pivot is now on the other end of the knife.
 
tiguy7 said:
The original clips on the left handed Military were straight. The newer clips are curved. Therefore you can buy right or left handed curved clips from Spyderco. To avoid milling a recess for a clip anchor plate, you could install round threaded inserts on the inside of the G-10 handle. You could alternately install #2X56TPI Helicoils directly into the G-10 from either side of the plate. The clip will look a little odd with the large hole in the middle. The hole allows pivot access, but the pivot is now on the other end of the knife.
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The clip would look odd not so much for the hole but because it is curved the wrong way when flipped around. Of course you could get a different clip. The space inside the knife between the scales is pretty much unused, there is a lot of space in there beyond the edge and tip of the blade. If a person found a clip that they liked they could drill all the way through the scale on one side and put a backing plate in there for the screws to anchor to and just use longer screws. I think you could do this without disassembling the knive. There is a guy in these forums that makes custom clips, he might be able to do the entire conversion.

Since other Spyderco knives have more options for clip positions I think later versions of the Military will come that way also. I'm a firm believer in tip-down carry in my right front pocket, but some people like to use other pockets, some people are left-handed, some people clip the knives to their gear instead of their pants pockets, etc., so there is plenty of justification for providing the option and the Military is an expensive enough knife that it could come with the flexibility.
 
tiguy7 said:
The original clips on the left handed Military were straight. The newer clips are curved. Therefore you can buy right or left handed curved clips from Spyderco. To avoid milling a recess for a clip anchor plate, you could install round threaded inserts on the inside of the G-10 handle. You could alternately install #2X56TPI Helicoils directly into the G-10 from either side of the plate. The clip will look a little odd with the large hole in the middle. The hole allows pivot access, but the pivot is now on the other end of the knife.
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And these would reduce manufacturing cost??? ;) Anything is possible, but not everything is cost-effective.
 
JNewell said:
I'm having trouble getting "trivial" to work with this. ;) First, you need to add steps to inlet one or two new plates at the aft end of the knife. Then you need to redesign the clip so it will work at the other end of the knife and/or the other side of the knife. The Military is already a pretty expensive production folder. I don't know how much this would add to the cost by the time it's for sale at dealers, but I'm not sure it'd be trivial. :)
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During the design process adding a metal liner for screws for a clip would be trivial--because the Military is in current production, it would require an entire new design. It would no longer be a "Military." Again, during the decision making process adding or removing features is easy enough. Designing an entire new knife would not be.
 
Cynic2701 said:
During the design process adding a metal liner for screws for a clip would be trivial--because the Military is in current production, it would require an entire new design. It would no longer be a "Military." Again, during the decision making process adding or removing features is easy enough. Designing an entire new knife would not be.
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Which is part of why Sal refuses to let us pin him down on a timetable for the Military 2, probably! :eek: :D Actually, though, I like the Military so much the way it is that I would probably only buy the Military 2 out of curiosity about the new lock...thought I said the same about the Para1 until I'd had a Para2 for a little while... :)
 
The point of being able to get R/H and L/H clips is that you can buy a clip that won't point the wrong way. I am discussing a user modification of the Military not a factory fix. The Ti and hybrid Militaries can be tapped for tip up carry in the lock side plate. I don't know if these models are available for left handers. For conversions on plastic handles, Helicoils can be placed in the plastic. The thicknesses are adequate for this mod. Helicoil kits run around $30 in the #2X56TPI size. After the initial investment, the SS inserts run about $0.50 each.
 
austinguy23 said:
The Military 2 will allow for a 4-way clip according to Sal.
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That is my understanding as well, and can't wait to get my hands on one!

I always said I would never carry a tip down folder, but when I first got a Military about 6 years ago that changed. The knife is so great IMO that I carry one more than any other knife. Its the only tip down knife I will carry.
 
can't wait for the new milie too. any new 4" spyderco is a good news for me.

but again i'm afraid i'd still prefer the current one, i'd like to know how much heavier the new one will be with longer liners and more steel parts for the lock (from the patents drawing i've seen). if the weight goes up too much it'll lose a lot of it's appeal to me.
 
pwet said:
can't wait for the new milie too. any new 4" spyderco is a good news for me.

but again i'm afraid i'd still prefer the current one, i'd like to know how much heavier the new one will be with longer liners and more steel parts for the lock (from the patents drawing i've seen). if the weight goes up too much it'll lose a lot of it's appeal to me.
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The good news in that regard is Sal said both versions would be in production together, not that the old one would be immediately phased out like with the Para-Military. How long they both stay in production will probably, as usual, depend on demand.

I presume from that information that the new version will differ drastically in some essential way that will make some people prefer the old version--additional weight being a possibility.
 
pwet said:
. if the weight goes up too much it'll lose a lot of it's appeal to me.
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I feel the same. The size to weight ratio is the main reason I love the Military.

I love tip up, but if it does add weight I'll just stick with my tip down Millies. Hopefully there will be none added, or very little.
 
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