Why m4?

knarfeng said:
To answer the actual question, Because it has extreme edge retention and is tougher than M390.
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Seems like a lot of extra work for some edge retention! I like working on my blades, but this is crazy. I worry when the sweat starts running down my temple.
 
Monofletch said:
Yes, you are correct. But the constant upkeep is a real let down.
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I'm going to hate myself in the morning for saying this, but you could try giving it a patina. A lot of the fellas who like non-stainless claim that the resulting black oxide finish will retain oil and is more resistant to red rust formation than unoxidized metal.
 
eveled said:
It is after you rub it with an oily rag and it turns black.
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You are removing the rust (which is surface rust) with your oily rag or whatever. That's the point. It's not the rust that turns black. Patina is something else. (Maybe that's what you meant and I missed it. :) )

Mono's frustration is not so much with M4, but with the fact that a rust situation that occurred despite his use of commonly accepted practices, i.e., keeping the steel well-oiled.
 
Patina is a form of rust. "Rust" is oxidized iron. "patina" is due to formation of black oxide rust. Black oxide formation is less aggressive than red oxide formation. Black oxide does not cause pitting, it's just on the surface. Red oxide formation is more damaging. It commonly causes pitting.

And I find any form of rust unacceptable. So I carry stainless.
 
Or probably rather that patina is unavoidable.
 
What type of oil are you using ?
ive got some from A.G.Russell called Rust Free, it works good on my non stainless blades. The oil clings to the steel and doesn’t rub off easily.
 
knarfeng said:
I'm going to hate myself in the morning for saying this, but you could try giving it a patina. A lot of the fellas who like non-stainless claim that the resulting black oxide finish will retain oil and is more resistant to red rust formation than unoxidized metal.
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Is it just a claim? Or is there science behind it? I'm following your posts on this patina-rust-black oxide issue with interest. I genuinely would like to know more about it. For instance, are you suggesting that the presence of black oxide inhibits the formation of red oxide?

Thanks. :)
 
I have Lucas Heavy gun oil, CLP, Balistol, and a silicone cloth. I have used them all with very little difference in performance on this knife. I can use any on my other daily carry knives without as much worry!
 
I used EDCi on my cruwear blade that I carry alot and it seems to hold up well. I also wipe down a couple of my guns with it that I keep in the garage and it really does well at stopping and surface rust.
 
Mister Coffee said:
Is it just a claim? Or is there science behind it? I'm following your posts on this patina-rust-black oxide issue with interest. I genuinely would like to know more about it. For instance, are you suggesting that the presence of black oxide inhibits the formation of red oxide?

Thanks. :)
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Rust is the reaction of water and oxygen with Iron. Theoretically, if you tie up the free iron on the blade surface by changing it to black iron oxide, then there isn't free iron left to react and form red rust. However, the black oxide layer that is formed is thin and porous and does not form an actual barrier like anodizing does on aluminum, or like the chrome oxide does on stainless steel. So it may reduce the formation of red rust, but it won't actually prevent it.

From an industrial viewpoint, it's not standard practice, and is not considered protective. The closest you get is Parkerizing, which requires application of oil in order to be considered "protective".
 
A good Patina either forced or natural is similar to a blued finish on a gun. It doesn’t stop red rust, but it slows it way down. So it doesn’t flash rust giving you time to wipe it down. In fact a lot of old guns have a brown metal finish it is just a forced patina.

Patina does seem to hold oil

You’ll go crazy trying to keep a carbon steel knife bright and shiny. If you like bright and shiny and new looking stainless is your best friend.

My father was a chef, he only used carbon steel knives. The way he did it, whatever you cut with the knife, you rubbed the juices over the entire blade then wipe it off. It created the most beautiful dark even patina you could imagine. Even my great grandmother knew to stick a brand new knife into a potatoe to turn it black and protect it.

Don’t think of it as rust or corrosion, it’s more like seasoning a cast iron pan.

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This picture shows a nice old KA-BAR LoomFixer with patina on carbon steel blades. Next to a Stainless fixed blade.
The stainless has no soul.
 
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I use a pencil eraser to remove light rust. has about zero effect on the finish and removes it well.

try a wax next time. ive had good luck with waxes over oils that run off or evaporate. waxes wear off too from using, but using also removes rusts so there's that.😁
 
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3 more knives with nice patina.

OP, use you knife for food prep and rub the juices all over it, let it sit a couple hours then wash it off and oil it. Or stick it in an onion or potato or brush vinegar or mustard on it for a day or so. Wash it off and oil it.

Embrace the patina or buy stainless. Either way your life will be easier.
 
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