Why nail breakers?

J

jackknife

Joined
Oct 2, 2004
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Okay, I know I'm no spring chicken any more, and it's been a very long time since somebody called me 'young man'. But there is one thing I just never did understand, even when I was young enough to have my nose pressed up against the glass of the big Case display at the hardware store in Wheaton when I was a kid. Why nail breakers?

I don't understand why a knife company will make a knife that you have to fight with, just to get it open to cut something. Okay, a firm pull is acceptable, but when it feels like the thumb nail is being pull out by some kind of torture devise, or it just breaks down to the quick, I have to ask why?

I remember when I was a kid, all kinds of old men let me handle their pocket knives when I admired them, and they all opened with a reasonable force. After all, if the old man could open it, how hard can it be? Of course now that I'm an old man, I know it could not have been much. Legions of working men were loyal to the old Schrade Old Timer line of knives. They were very good working tools, with nice thin flat ground carbon steel blades, that pulled out of the handle with no great thumb nail breaking effort.

When I was 12 years old, and Mr. Van got us for his scouts, I remember a sage piece of advise he gave us; Don;t carry a knife that you can't get open easy in the store. Some day you may have to open that knife with cold or wet hands, or one injured hand and only able to get a fair grasp on it. I guess that's why years later I bought that Buck stockman that traveled with me so long. It was so smooth and easy to open. They had some other brands of knives in the PX, but they didn't compare with the Buck. A few years later the same thing happened with sak's. I was looking at a nice Case scout knife, and even then in my late 20's, I couldn't open the bottle opener or can opener without chipping my thumb nail. The guy behind the counter handed me a sak and said to try that. He sold a sak that day, My first one, a huntsman. Very smooth, and easy to open. Since then, Victorinox and Buck has been my 'standard' to measure other knives against.

I'm sure GEC and those other companies make very good knives. One of my breakfast friends got one, and I could hardly get the main blade open. It was a nice knife, but I wouldn't have it. If I'm out someplace under less than perfect breakfast table conditions, I doubt I'd be able to get it in action. I don't understand why they make nail breakers. I can only wonder if someone at Victorinox made some sort of study on what was the upper limit of thumb nail comfort while opening a knife. How many pounds of torgue should be needed?

Things I wonder about.

Carl.
 
Now that is a very good question Carl! I feel exactly the same way. Since I have started collecting traditional knives some of the most enjoyable to use have been my Schrade USA Uncle Henrys. Part of the reason is they are so smooth to open, have a great snap, but still are very easy on the thumbnail. The GEC I have with me today is a great design but I still wish the pull was not quite as tough. In order to use some of these knives I have to ensure my thumbnail is kept in good working order!
 
While I like my pulls on the heavy side, I have a comfort limit. For those familiar with Ray Cover's customs, that about my limit:thumbup:

The Case 6308 whittler is one of my favorite factory patterns, but I bet I've handled well over a 100 from the '60's and 70's and maybe one in 10 is acceptably easy enough to open...they are notorious nail breakers:mad:
 
Good question Carl... very good question. I cannot answer that but I take breaking in knife like taming a wild horse... My #73 "Blood Fiend" is good example. I am still breaking her in, hopefully in a week I get her in good condition. However, I've made progress :D
 
I agree Carl and will go a step further. I consider it a serious design flaw just the same as a blade with no snap or a major fit and finish problem. I don't understand people who think it's a good thing when your knife bites you. I would be sending a nail breaker back to the factory for a refund NOT a replacement.

Best regards

Robin
 
That is why I like to make knives with a half stop. I like a nice smooth fairly easy pull from closed to half, then you can pinch the blade from half to open and it can be very heavy but easily managed.
 
Hi,

I think it is very much a personal preference. I guess I tend to err more on the heavy side rather than the light. The one GEC that I do own started out as a nail breaker. But has broken in to be a heavier, but very smooth opener. My Schrade 8OT is also smooth but heavy to open.

I wonder if the heaviness has to do with back springs and their temper and geometry? It seems that to my perception, that heavier openers seem to snap the open position with more authority and that gives me more confidence in using them.

Dale
 
Why nail breakers?" That's a heck of a good question, Carl - I don't have an answer. I agree with your statements as to why not nail breakers. All I can contribute is that I've sold off 3 or 4 GEC's because they were so darned hard to open and/or snapped into the half-stop or full open position with such force that I didn't feel safe handling them. These were not just fresh out of the tube, but knives I had cleaned, lubed, and spent time working the joint. I like GEC knives ..... I just won't keep one that wants to bite me.
 
I like a heavy spring, but I definitely don't like nailbreakers. On a scale of 1-10, I'd say a 7 is my ideal.

You use the SAKs as a standard. It's a pretty good standard seeing that SAKs are remarkably consistent from one knife to the next. Everyone knows what you're talking about when you discuss the walk and talk of a SAK. I however like my knives with stouter springs, and I find SAK springs a little soft for my liking. YMMV of course.

On this issue, as with most others, personal experiences and attributes will weigh heavily with regards to an individual's preferences. One of my favorite knives, a S&M Harness Jack has perfect tension with regards to the main blade. OTOH, my wife finds it too strong and always asks me to open it before using it. I can see her point since her hands aren't as strong as mine and she also has thinner nails. It's my knife though and I like it just the way it is. Which one of us is right? Both of us are. When all is said and done only the end user can determine what is the right amount of spring tension for a knife.

- Christian
 
dalee100 said:
I wonder if the heaviness has to do with back springs and their temper and geometry? It seems that to my perception, that heavier openers seem to snap the open position with more authority and that gives me more confidence in using them.

Dale
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I think it's more geometry and pin placement rather than hardness or temper.

For what its worth, I think your right about a knife opening to full with with authority.... it gives the user confidence! Opening to half, for me is a different story. I have made some knives in the past that were weak to open, but at this point in my craft they wouldn't make the cut! No pun intended:)

waynorth said:
Here's another version of Brent's LC, in Ebony.

The icing is the snap/pull: on opening, it is about a 5-rated pull, but from half-stop to full open, it's a 7.5 to 8!!
For me, this is perfect!! You won't shred your thumbnail, but the blade is very secure at full open. All knives should be this way!
You don't need gargantuan spring tension to hold a knife closed under most conditions, but it is nice to have it well sprung when it is in use; it just makes sense.
Thanks Brent! I've always wanted an LC, and this one's a great one!!
BrentLC1.jpg
Click to expand...
 
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I don't get it, either. I know GEC has gotten a lot better about it, but I've heard of nailbreakers from others, too.
 
I think its pretty simple. If the blade is harder to open its most likely harder to close accidentally by too much spine pressure during heavier use. Thats what I've always thought anyway.

STR
 
I think there can be a perfect balance to meet. I case in point (no pun intended) is my Case/Bose Tribal Spear. VERY smooth, strong snap, 6-7 from the pull side but is still so easy to open that it can be pinched from closed to the half stop. I think this designed the perfect balance of opening and confidence.
 
I used to be completely convinced that a stout spring is the only kind I want on any of my knives, but then my the side of my right thumb got smacked by the arm of my clay pigeon thrower. There were a couple of days there where the joint couldn't take the strain necessary to open my new Tommy Gann knife, but I've gotten it worn in now and my thumb is mostly healed. So now I have a lot more sympathy for your position, Carl, but I think still prefer a firmer spring. Like Christian, I'd say a 7 is about right.

James
 
blades&grace said:
That is why I like to make knives with a half stop. I like a nice smooth fairly easy pull from closed to half, then you can pinch the blade from half to open and it can be very heavy but easily managed.
Click to expand...

Okay, that seems a very good way to go!:thumbup: At least you're not fighting your knife from the get-go. Not to meniton safer.

I think some of my problem is that I got to handle some nice knives when I was growing up in the late 40's and early 50's. Dad had brought home a boatload of pocket knives for me and the family. He gave mom a really nice pearl handle pen from Sheffield with two blades and a little sissor's, that mom carried in her purse for the rest of her life. It was soooo smooth and easy to open. A real gentlemans knife. Mom did a lot of sewing, and she used the sissors on it a great deal, and the blades to open her mail and other small cutting jobs. Mom was all of five foot two, and she could open the old pocket knives with ease. Never a chipped nail. Some old Hen and Roosters, Bruckman's, and other knives all had a fine feel and easy smooth opening that a lot of the U.S. made knives did not have. Even today, the knives I handle from Boker, the makers of the new Hen and Roosters, (Oberlitz or someting like that?) and pocket knives from italy, France, all seem to have weaker ( softer?) springs than a lot of the new boutique knives in the U.S.

If Mr. Van warned us about the heavy spring nail breakers in 1952, it seems like this is not a new problem.

Carl.
 
I prefer a 5 or 6 on this subjective scale. I'd rather have a 7 than a 4 though. I believe I have a couple knives that are 4's and still I am using them without being concerned that they are going to be an issue. Again one must understand force vectors (at least the concept) when using slipjoints or even friction folders.

Ed
 
I think the worst GEC offenders have been the #73 Scout pattern, for a couple reasons. They combine very heavy pulls with a half-stop (the worst combination) and they are a smaller knife (compared to their #23 Pioneer) so less to hang on to. For me, it is the action of the half-stop snapping the blade open to the 90 degree position that causes one to lose control of the blade. Brent's example of a softer pull to half-stop would alleviate the problem, but I've never seen a factory knife with that configuration.

It's why my favorite pattern is the GEC Cuban Stockman. They DON'T have half-stops, therefore nothing is yanking the blade out of your grip when opening. I've also never had a nail breaker in this pattern even though some have been quite firm, and maybe it's BECAUSE there is no half-stop.
 
Squeeze a tennis ball for an hour a day and your hard to open knives will magically become easy to open.
Greg
 
mckgreg said:
Squeeze a tennis ball for an hour a day and your hard to open knives will magically become easy to open.
Greg
Click to expand...
I wish this were true. If I squeezed a tennis ball for an hour the next morning I would not be able to move my hands for a very long time. I am only 54 but it is surprising how fast arthitis limits everyday activities.
 
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