Why no love for the HEST ?

tonym said:
Mr Pelton, welcome to the forum. I am sure many of us can learn alot from you and we appreciate you stopping by. I don't know why anyone would feel the need to be insulting about your design; as that is how I see a post or two, but most in this forum are very friendly. Anyway, hope to see you around here more often.
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Ditto, You will find we have a higher than average number of knife users
in this sub-forum. So many of us are a little set in our ways on what works for us.

You have an ummm..interesting design.:) It is just not something that suits my needs.
 
Mr. Pelton,

That was pretty awesome you stopped by to enlighten us on the HEST. I know the guy who posted, questioning your credentials must feel rather...never mind that, just thanks for setting the record straight.

CB
 
baldtaco-II said:
It's a novelty toy.

I wont dwell on my opinions on 1095 under a layer of drain paint. It is sufficient to note that is $160 for that and it looks like Tops have been at it.

Design wise – I had to look up the designer and I found nothing to give him any credentials as a designer that couldn't be drawn from the traditional bucket of ignoramuses, juvenile military personnel [in relation to breaking stuff], cobbled together with the opinion of Kate Adie [whatever that may be].

Specifically, what's with the importance of opening beer bottles? As mentioned above; there are loads of ways to improvise a beer bottle opener, why sacrifice a bit of your knife if it is the serious and important tool you portend. I guess the answer to that has something to do with showing off to your junior buddies that your knife has a “well cool man” bottle opener. I can live without that. I do. I love it. I'd suggest to those people that they might actually get an even bigger “well cool man” if they didn't need to recourse to some dedicated device. Better idea; put the boys down and go hook up with a girl. If you want a beer with her borrow something from her to open them, maybe her lipstick case. Unless of course there are extra “well cool man” points to be had from waiving a knife around in a manly way in front of other men while you open beer.

What's with that handle:

a] It's got a lovely liability to the user built right in. Thanks for that.

b] “a” surely has has to preclude some carry options, including my favorite

c] It looks soddin' uncomfortable. Whilst one might test the luck at how eagerly a knife of that thickness slices imagine if you will how great it would feel in the web of the hand putting a point on a good solid stake [or any other power cutting that way]. Now consider how it felt to to do that with a CS Master Hunter handle. Make a special note of what exactly would be contacting the web of your hand in both instances. Observations like that sell themselves.

di] What's with the flat brass screws? Here I think there's a world of difference between explaining and explaining away. Sure one can open them with a coin rather than needing a star / hex bolt driver but I find that tenuous. I've never found that an issue with other knives 'cos I've had forewarning I needed one when I select that knife. As for the James Bond stowing a Krugerand up the handle or whatever that cavity is meant to be for I'm really going to laugh. When your knife is taxed off you you'll lose that. Unless of course you don't get taxed in which case better solutions present themselves. I suppose there is the possibility that the Umpa Lumpas might rush out, bag your head and cuff you, strip all your kit save your knife allowing you to Tarzan your way home. Nah, I'm not having that, too unlikely.

dii] Brass flat screws – what's to love? Well they are very elastic so they are less likely to vibrate free than steel on steel. Doesn't Loctite solve that for everyone else. But then again who wants Loctite on something they'll keep undoing. But then there's how much crap a soft brass flat screw head is willing to tolerate under a makeshift screwdriver, the raison d'être, before it just rips up. I've put up with brass flat head screws on my Big Swede because it was a very cheap knife that works brilliantly given what it is made from and it was designed long ago. For a modern fixed blade at $160 I think it is outrageous.

Notes:

Perhaps in anticipation of comments on the handle the website mentions one can wrap string or leather round the handle. I'd say while you are at it you could saw off that liability protruding from that handle and glue it in the gap on the back of the blade where some blade should be. Or of course in common with other knives one has to wrap something round the handle and saw bits off to make into a half serviceable knife, one could just buy something else to begin with.

I'm going to quit now before it starts to get to the pillory stage. It is sufficient to note that sometimes going to a bunch of places can be mutually exclusive with using and designing knives in an effective manner. There's another piece of evidence for that inherent in that knife.
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baldtaco-II said:
Perhaps I misunderstood the title of the thread “Why no love for the HEST ?”

I figured that was just going to be some observation statements that may be right or wrong. And some subjective assessments of it and why some of us could not love it. Those can neither be right nor wrong. On that note; I shall declare it is a POS design and that is why I do not love it. Only a fool would try to argue that was right or wrong, they may simply agree or disagree.

Time to bail on this thread too 'cos it seems to be yet another that is developing a bitch element. Shame.
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Yea, I just can't imagine where the bitch element started.

It is a shame, and so typical of posts from you.;)
 
I have a couple of Mr. Pelton`s books, excellant reading from a guy who has "been there, done that." I would say that he is very qualified to decide what works for him in a knife. Like has been mentioned, it`s not a knife for everybody, but after reading Reuben`s article in TK, I kind of see it`s positive points.
 
RYP said:
For those who don't know me. Here is some stuff:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Young_Pelton
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Very interesting read, thanks for posting that and now I have a new book to get.

I guess I may re-think since half my problems with the HEST design stem form that I could only find pics of the knife...and just from one side. No in hand/in use pics on the sites I checked, not even any specs. After reading the pass around thread it does look close enough in size to the RC3 & RC4 (but thicker than the RC3) as to work well for what I am getting it for, an urban kit. I am creating a kit with the purpose of serving in a "hostile" environment and the knife is going in a specific location in the kit and size is a primary concern... soooo....I guess maybe the HEST will be my first RAT. Having had most of my survival lessons from an urban perspective and living in a very urban area... now I'm really curious to check this knife out.

.
 
I can see a use for the knife, but it's just not for me. My main dislike for it is the spike at the end of the handle - I'm a clutz and I'd wind up impaling my hand over and over. I'm surprised at how people are angered by the design though - I think they don't understand what it was designed to do.
 
Well I think the HEST would be a perfect knife if it had a different blade shape, a different handle shape, a different thickness, a different steel and — most importantly — a different size.

Hmmm ... I'm beginning to think that it might be good for some people, and not for others. So many knives we can choose from: isn't that cool?
 
RYP said:
Ah the RAT DPx H•E•S•T. I am glad it generates such interest and controversy.

I guess I would have to separate the comments from theorists versus from users. Its quite easy to make up critiques but the HEST is a real world knife, its not a tactical poser, or country boy antler stick. Its a tough razor sharp, well thought out EDC at a great price. Let's discuss what makes this knife worth looking at:

- Its a US made, massively thick, legal-carry, big-handled bruiser that comes with a lifetime no questions asked warranty. That alone makes it worth buying. There just aren't that many hard knives in that category and for under $100 bucks.

- the prybar, love it or hate it, it adds a massively useful tip saving element to the knife. If things get slippery you will also understand the ergonomic reason its there (along with the four finger hold of the skeletonized version) The extra purchase of the prybar also makes it sit in your hand like it lives there and provides a perfect thumb spot. I agree that some people look at the pry bar and scratch their head but then again I look at some of the knives that claim utility features and I scratch my head.

- The "beer opener" its yet another pry tool and that magic spot that your thumb rests on for carefull work. Its called a beer opener for a laugh. Real men drink hard liquor anyways :)) The mounting points and mirror choil and beer opener are functional lashing points as well.

- Hollow handle, wire cutter choil, open grip, bottle opener, lashing points are all there because they work and actually add to the ergonomics and function of the knife.

- the designer. What can I say? After two decades, numerous remote expeditions, 36 wars, 120+ countries I wanted a knife that would work in the real world. Famous knives from the Bowie to the Fairbairn Sykes have always been a the result of the requests of of real world users not not "knife makers". It is a three way marriage, the designer, the maker and the user. And it should be small select group that loves the knife. And the designer should actually listen to the users to constantly improve the product. That's why I like going to SHOT, reading comments and talking to users.

As for comments on the RAT folks and their products. You are right you won't see RAT's hanging in Wal-Marts and don't hold your breath for the new RAT Klingon War Axe but if you make it out to the boonies, Iraq or Afghanistan you will see their knives in use. And once again, you won't find a company that stands behind their products like they do.

For those who don't know me. Here is some stuff:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Young_Pelton

RAT DPx H•E•S•T:

http://www.dpxgear.com/
http://www.officer.com/web/online/On-the-Street/RAT-HEST-Knife/21$49932
http://www.newamericantruth.com/reviews/knives/rathest.htm
http://nemoknivesreview.wordpress.com/2009/12/26/robert-young-pelton-dpx-h-e-s-t-xmas-glimpse/
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hey man! good to see you here! :cool::thumbup:
 
For the record: I like just about everything about the HEST,except for the thickness of it.I don't like thick smallish knives.That's just my preference.YMMV.

I can see why it's as thick as it is,given it's a "hostile environment survival tool".You could probably pry open a a steel door with it.
 
I love my HEST. I carry it with me everyday. It is very useful in my everyday task. If I was in a life or death situation I would want this knife with me. A side note Mr. Pelton has probably for got more than any of us will ever know about wilderness and survival skills.
 
baldtaco-II said:
Perhaps I misunderstood the title of the thread “Why no love for the HEST ?”

I figured that was just going to be some observation statements that may be right or wrong. And some subjective assessments of it and why some of us could not love it. Those can neither be right nor wrong. On that note; I shall declare it is a POS design and that is why I do not love it. Only a fool would try to argue that was right or wrong, they may simply agree or disagree.

Time to bail on this thread too 'cos it seems to be yet another that is developing a bitch element. Shame.
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Hmmmm, Ok, well I own a HEST, and I like it. the design isn't a POS, not at all. It works well as an EDC blade. I use my HEST and I am as comfortable with it as I am my Izula, my RC-3, or any one of my blades by Scott Gossman. (or any of the other gimillion knives I own).

Of course, I own the blade, I am not sitting back in a chair looking at a photo and the specs and writing about it. I actually use the damn thing. I don't prefer it to any of my other blades, it isn't a "better knife" then my TAK-1, or Izula, or RC-3, but it does the job just as well. I have Batoned with it, made a bunch of fuzzysticks, etc etc etc, and I really have no complaints about it. No hotspots, rolling of the edge, etc etc.

Wire cutter: Never needed it, but did have a friend of mine say it came in darn handy to get rid of a piece of barbed wire that was on a snowmobile trail recently.
Bottle opener: never needed it, but who knows maybe some day....
Prybar: Works great as a wood chisel, and I used it to pry my garage open the other day (door was frozen shut, the HEST got it up enough to get my CoutyComms prybar under the door and pop it free).

Anyways, I really love my RC-3, so it isnt likely that the HEST will replace it, or any of my other knives, but if it had to, I am sure it is up to the task.

Toucan Oasis said:
2 words.
Mall
Ninja
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Sorry Bro... nearest mall is an hour drive, and my HEST is getting used in the Green Mountains, White Mountains areas. But really thanks for your input.
 
just a little note for those that felt it neccasary to fill my email inbox with compeletly uncalled for comments...........I posted over at the rat subforum in the hopes that the rat users would come over here to WS&S and explain how the knife is used and why the knife is designed like it is.

It was quite nice to see the knifes designer (Mr Pelton) chime in on why he designed the knife the way he did.

IT WAS NOT NICE to receive the emails i did.

good day.

outta here, the vibe is BS
 
Anybody have any HEST pics side-by-side with an Izula and/or RC3 or an RC4?
"A picture is worth a thousand words" as they say.
At the very least being a Rat knife it should be a good quality blade regardless of whether you like the design or not.
Really like the Izula but if i had seen this before i bought my Izula i might have bought the HEST instead. Still love the Izula though.
Not looking to buy anything new right now but i may buy a HEST later on down the road (and probably an RC5).

Interesting bio Mr. Pelton, very impressive career!
I don't get to travel much but i do enjoy reading about it, so I just added one of your books to my Amazon.ca shopping cart!
:)
 
I don't have much time around here on BF, but geez louise, it's so easy for people to get all roused up because of a piece of steel :rolleyes:. You don't like it? PLEASE say so and tell us why. You didn't like his reason for not liking it? If you can elaborate on the reason in a constructive form, please enlighten. No need to start bashing the knife, the maker, the designer or whomever actually likes the thing. State your facts and maybe some will agree with you but maybe some will not, and that's life. No need to offend or get offended.

Sheesh, some of these discussions remind me of my IRC days back in the 90's :rolleyes:.
 
Nice to see you here Mr Pelton. I am a Canadian prairie boy(saskatchewan) myself as well. I would have been impressed with just your work record alone, some tough jobs man!

Your bio speaks for itself......... I'll grab your book soon.

remember "The Lion pays no heed to the yapping of jackals"

with regards
 
shotgunner11 said:
Yea, I just can't imagine where the bitch element started.

It is a shame, and so typical of posts from you.;)
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As someone that is a moderator I expect better than to make the discussion personal. I shall not lodge a complaint at this time but you'd do well to consider and reflect upon your conduct and the example to the members you are setting. You have moderator under your name and that is supposed to be some indicator of standards. If you persist in making debate personal do not be surprised if members then descend to your level.


noblesse oblige
 
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