Why no love for the HEST ?

[Mistwalker]

The more I read this thread, the more I look forward to getting mine!

 

[somberbear]

i have used the the bottle opener a few times main rounding over metal sheet and using it on wire. also found it fit my friends square top out door water faucet... when we couldnt find the key.... i could defentaly see it being handy in urban settings to gather water....

i dont carry it a lot but i keep the hest in my truck kit... and its been handy on more then one occation... it might have a lot of novelty to it. but it seams to work out. still not my fav knife... but its up there on my fav. tool list.

 

[Mistwalker]

i have used the the bottle opener a few times mail rounding over metal sheet and using it on wire. also found it fit my friends square top out door water faucet... when we couldnt find the key.... i could defentaly see it being handy in urban settings to gather water....

i dont carry it a lot but i keep the hest in my truck kit... and its been handy on more then one occation... it might have a lot of novelty to it. but it seams to work out. still not my fav knife... but its up there on my fav. tool list.

Cool, thanks for that info. It's definitely an urbanized environment I have in mind for it.

 

[beef]

The question "why no love for the HEST" was posted in the wilderness survival forum. As most of us take this to mean "playing round in the bush" it's little wonder that this blade is not popular on this forum.

I'm sure it's a great urban survival knife for a warzone. But I'm not in that situation. I'm even less in that situation when I go out to play in the bush. I have never had the need to pry something or open a beer when in the bush.

For ME, the prybar would impede the use of the chest lever grip when using the knife. As this is one of the main grips I use, it's not for me.

There seems to be zealotry on both sides in this debate. And I've read more than once "any knife can be a survival knife". Sure it can. But in 15 yrs of playing in the bush, I've never found myself playing in the bush without the ideal knife. So why take a knife suited for one purpose, a jack of all trades and force it into service as something else?
Can it do it? Yes. Is it optimal? No.

Before anyone jumps on my back as being a RAT basher, I really like my RC-4 and am sure that the HEST serves its designer just fine.

 

[Don Rearic]

The question "why no love for the HEST" was posted in the wilderness survival forum. As most of us take this to mean "playing round in the bush" it's little wonder that this blade is not popular on this forum.

It's not the "Wilderness Survival Forum." The descriptor for the forum says it all, "Wilderness & Survival Skills Forum." Back when it was created, it was probably a bad choice of wording. It should have just been "The Survival Forum" and then had a descriptor of the environments the forum would focus on, etc.

 

[beef]

Oh! Fancy that. I missed out an S from the forum acronym. Thanks Don!
Whew!

 

[Nemo]

Can it do it? Yes. Is it optimal? No.
.

The HEST is not urban. It should be a great knife for the bush.
Did you try it in the bush ?

 

[Don Rearic]

Oh! Fancy that. I missed out an S from the forum acronym. Thanks Don!
Whew!

I'm not trying to be nasty, I think the distinction is important. This forum is not only about wilderness survival. Many others, like yourself, basically condense the title for the sake of brevity. I have done so myself in the past.

But to judge everything by "bush this" and "bush that" is getting extremely old.

 

[Nemo]

I would really appreciate opinion of people who use that knife not people who make assumption about what the knife would be...
There is no value in assumptions.
I will always respect a point of view of someone who got the knife and doesn't like it than someone who never handle a knife and doesn't like it.
I've been many time very surprised by a tool after giving it a try.
To many so called specialist can judge a design just by a picture. They got super power I don't have.
I would never talk about a knife before to be able to use it. I even know huge famous specialists and makers who were able to change their mind, even very stubborn one...
I would love to see some bushcraft fans or bushmen give a chance to that little blade.
For the moment, the HEST performs perfectly in european forest in winter. Why not in the bush ?

 

[Esav Benyamin]

I'm not trying to be nasty, I think the distinction is important. [ ... ]

But to judge everything by "bush this" and "bush that" is getting extremely old.

I agree. Survival skills spill over from outdoors to urban, and even "the wilderness" is very different in different parts of the world, climate zones, and seasons.

Making camp and fixing dinner is only one specific W&SS area of interest. Many people, from military to engineers to travelers, will find themselves going about their ordinary business in environments you might look to for recreation.

The HEST is highly practical for them.

 

[Don Rearic]

Yeah, judging by your opinion and perhaps a bit of attitude about it as well, you seem to be in the camp of this is the "bushcraft" place...by your entry below from another thread about "bushcraft knives."

Of course you need a 4mm blade. What if you find a car door in the bush that needs prying open? Your SAK would simply snap.

Maybe your best course of action is to continue to use your SAK for carving and carry a piece of 4mm steel for unexpected car door situations in the bush.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=709801

This forum is about all aspects of survival, I really don't think this sort of stinky attitude about being prepared only for emergencies in the "bush" should be tolerated any longer in here.

I think all aspects of survivalism should be studied. I think relying on a fire bow and drill for real life saving emergencies would be ludicrous, for example...but that doesn't mean I'm not interested in that method and other, more primitive methods of firestarting, etc.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

Just a little bit about the "bush this and bush that":

There's a difference between bushcraft and wilderness survival that folks often overlook as well.

Bushcraft I see as me playing in the woods. Yep, I like to play making traps, primitive fire methods, etc. If it turns into a survival situation, though, "bushcraft" will be my last resort. I'll be "cheating" by butt off with every last piece of modern technology I can get my hands on. I'm not going to bother with a bow drill or flint and steel if I have a bottle of lighter fluid and a road flare with me.

Also "bushcraft" isn't technology limited. What I mean is, a guy doesn't have to use primitive gear to be "bushcrafting". I noticed that if someone wants to post about a knife that is shaped like something someone used in the 1800s, there's much cheering. But guys that use more modern military gear to do the exact same thing (like Mistwalker) get kicked in the nuts and if you so much as suggest that a Busse blade can be used on wood, there is much weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I hope some people open their minds a bit. Since he started the thread, I want to give Pitdog credit again for changing the way I think. I used to be the "It has to be traditional or it won't work" type. Then Pit posted about using his Tom Brown Tracker -- something I was sure was utterly useless -- and making it work. Since that, I've tried all kinds of stuff with the "let's see how I can make this work" mindset. I've now gotten to the point that I can do most "bushcraft" with anything that is sharp, or can be made sharp on site. My first choice? No, but being able to do that might just come in handy.

Which brings me back around to the subject of the HEST. I'll most likely never use it like RYP does. But there's just something sexy about it. Like some girls, you know you'll never be able to do everything that they can do, but it sure is fun to think about.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Good analysis, Cpl. Thank you.

 

[EMT_Lee]

I'm not trying to be nasty, I think the distinction is important. This forum is not only about wilderness survival. Many others, like yourself, basically condense the title for the sake of brevity. I have done so myself in the past.

But to judge everything by "bush this" and "bush that" is getting extremely old.

Well, that's valid. However, most of us who frequent this forum are outdoorsmen. That includes our moderators. They are wilderness skills instructors and practioners. To say something "should not be tolerated" is taking it a bit far. In practice, we're a pretty self-contained forum. We largely moderate ourselves, and we decide what topics are discussed. Having said that, you'll see quite a bit of "B.O.B." threads, "EOTWAWKI" threads, even some "Zombie Survival" (thanks Koyote ) threads, etc. So, it's not that we completely exclude urban/hostile enviroment survival, just that it's not a reality, or an interest, for the majority of posters. Strictly speaking, most of us have never needed to survive in an hostile urban enviroment, and those type topics do not hold a lot (note I did not say "any") interest for us. They just seem to run out of gas pretty quick. Just my thoughts.

 

[kgd]

But guys that use more modern military gear to do the exact same thing (like Mistwalker) get kicked in the nuts and if you so much as suggest that a Busse blade can be used on wood, there is much weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Every time I kick Mistwalker in the nuts, its only in the most gentle and loving way, and I generally refrain from setting him on fire afterwards......

 

[beef]

Hi Don,
the majority of posts I read in this forum are "bushcraft" based. But as mentioned by EMT Lee, there are the occasional BOB threads. They are however the minority.

The OP asked why he doesn't read more about the HEST on this forum. The answer is because the majority of topics are about woodcrafting topics or firelighting methods. If this were primarily an urban survival forum, or maybe even the EDC forum, then the HEST might get more of a look in.

Hi Nemo, are you suggesting that only people who have used the HEST should respond to a thread entitled "why no love for the HEST?". I'm willing to try new designs if I think that they could fit in with how I use a knife. But if I see a design that blatantly does not fit in with my needs, why on earth would I try it? I'm sure I could make do with a "Dark Ops" knife with skull crushing pommel. But why would I? No, I am not putting the Dark Ops on par with a RAT knife.
I literally couldn't hold the hest the way I like to use a knife. That's not closed mindedness.

 

[Don Rearic]

Well, that's valid. However, most of us who frequent this forum are outdoorsmen.

So? My Dad was an outdoorsman all of his life and wouldn't have known "bushcraft" from "smooshcraft." It's just a hobbyist term at this point. It's what you love to and there is nothing wrong with that, but it's hardly superior to other endeavors in this realm.

That includes our moderators. They are wilderness skills instructors and practioners.

Then you all should get together and call it the Bushcrafting Forum and then you can be superior in whatever you want to discuss.

To say something "should not be tolerated" is taking it a bit far.

What I said, specifically, is this:

"This forum is about all aspects of survival, I really don't think this sort of stinky attitude about being prepared only for emergencies in the "bush" should be tolerated any longer in here."

Then change the forum name or stop the attitude about other people's preps and skillsets, that's all I am saying and I think it is more than reasonable. It would not be the first time that I argued a point rationally and reasonably and was then attacked as if being irrational and unreasonable, however.

"Beef's" post reeked, admit it and acknowledge that is what I was talking about and let's move on...unless you agree with him and then, well, change the forum name. This is just stupid.

Strictly speaking, most of us have never needed to survive in an hostile urban enviroment, and those type topics do not hold a lot (note I did not say "any") interest for us.

Yeah, and while you're at it, why don't you admit that unless someone suffers a severe injury or they are STUPID, they are basically never going to need these skills in this country except in the most remote areas of it.

I just think the whole "Bushcraft" angle is being worn down to the bone. I know it is popular and it makes money and it's this, that and the other, but to evaluate every piece of gear or skillset compared to what people are calling "Bushcraft" is getting to the point of lunacy.

 

[Don Rearic]

I literally couldn't hold the hest the way I like to use a knife. That's not closed mindedness.

That's an absolutely valid point. I sort of addressed that in an earlier post. My HEST fits my hands well, if someone had wider hands, perhaps not. The Glock 21 .45 ACP is not comfortable in my hands, either. If you're not comfortable with a tool then it is a personal choice. But that also has little to do with the "Bushcrafting" angle.

I'll tell you another thing, I would like to see a lot more threads ON "Bushcrafting" instead of simply sitting around and bragging about the latest Bushcrafting Knife or bellyaching about what newest knife is not suitable for same. THAT is interesting and valuable. Bragging and bellyaching...isn't.

 

[Mistwalker]

Well, I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread regardless of what anyone else thinks about it or the knife. I am personally very glad it came to be. I am glad to have the size and specs of the knife clarified for me after days of trying to figure out which RAT knife I was going to buy first and completely misunderstanding the size of the knife having had no specs to go by. Given the nature of the project I am working on I think the HEST will be the perfect choice. Then again maybe that's because I have had to survive in my own hostile and urban environments more than once. Don't take that wrong...there is no sarcasm there, I'm glad most people here haven't that's a really good thing. However it may not always be that way. Having seen what I've seen I feel that if just one person out there gains something from my all of my posts that they feel may apply to their situation or learns something that helps preserve their life and well being in some future incident...just one...then it is worth any kicks in the balls I may receive from those with a more limited perspective. Now...that's about as much as I want to type....the picture below explains the beginning of my evening and now there is a scantily clad woman standing in my hall motioning to me...see you guys later. I hope you all have a great night! I know I am

Oh yeah...Ken how could you

But thank you so much for not starting me on fire though


.

 

[tholiver]

Well, I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread regardless of what anyone else thinks about it or the knife. I am personally very glad it came to be. I am glad to have the size and specs of the knife clarified for me after days of trying to figure out which RAT knife I was going to buy first and completely misunderstanding the size of the knife having had no specs to go by. Given the nature of the project I am working on I think the HEST will be the perfect choice. Then again maybe that's because I have had to survive in my own hostile and urban environments more than once. Don't take that wrong...there is no sarcasm there, I'm glad most people here haven't that's a really good thing. However it may not always be that way. Having seen what I've seen I feel that if just one person out there gains something from my all of my posts that they feel may apply to their situation or learns something that helps preserve their life and well being in some future incident...just one...then it is worth any kicks in the balls I may receive from those with a more limited perspective. Now...that's about as much as I want to type....the picture below explains the beginning of my evening and now there is a scantily clad woman standing in my hall motioning to me...see you guys later. I hope you all have a great night! I know I am

Oh yeah...Ken how could you

But thank you so much for not starting me on fire though


.

Hmmm a great meal plus a Guinness, a great knife AND a scantily clad woman waiting in the wings!
Sounds like you are having an awesome day!
:thumbup: