Why no love for the HEST ?

mistwalker said:
Then again maybe that's because I have had to survive in my own hostile and urban environments more than once. Don't take that wrong...there is no sarcasm there, I'm glad most people here haven't that's a really good thing. However it may not always be that way. Having seen what I've seen I feel that if just one person out there gains something from my all of my posts that they feel may apply to their situation or learns something that helps preserve their life and well being in some future incident...just one...then it is worth any kicks in the balls I may receive from those with a more limited perspective.
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I have always enjoyed your urban forays you have posted about and I have spent some time in nasty areas for work as well.
 
tholiver said:
Hmmm a great meal plus a Guinness, a great knife AND a scantily clad woman waiting in the wings!
Sounds like you are having an awesome day!
:thumbup:
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Yep, positively awesome! Best day all year :D ...probably even even the last two years.......



Don Rearic said:
I have always enjoyed your urban forays you have posted about and I have spent some time in nasty areas for work as well.
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I'm glad to hear that because that's where I'm headed again lol. An in depth look at the urban and street environment here as it is now in the dead of winter and how it changes as it warms up.

You can find a completely different perspective on the city you live in once you step out of the car and head out on foot. Things can get much more interesting.
 
Rotte said:
I've got a HEST. It's a neat knife. But the spike on the pommel can dig into my hand a bit. The bottle opener is....unnecessary...and would seem to weaken the blade somewhat. The wire breaker is only marginally useful. It's a novelty knife. It's fussy and doesn't really add anything to a basic knife design. I like it, but in a tough situation, gimme an RC-3 any day.

590500945_ghjia-M.jpg
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At the risk of post necromancy since the above post is from the first page of this behomoth of a thread...I can't let this slide.

The bottle opener cutout is at the thickest chunkyest point of a rather beefy blade. It's almost a full flat grind Except for that area, the stock doesn't even start thinning until below and beyond that point.

It's thicker than the Izula, which is in turn thicker then the RC3. It was months, maybe a more than a year before RAT got their first Izula breakage report. I think it'll be a lot longer then that before they hear about a HEST failing. I don't expect it to happen any time soon unless someone intentionally abuses one.

hest2.jpg


Left to right: Short KaBar tanto, Mora Clipper, HEST, Izula
 
^ yea and that first Izula break was from prying, not from normal use. I seriously doubt anyone could break a HEST under 99.999999999% of usage.
 
udtjim said:
Do you feel that it takes a different style or type of knife for urban survival?
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I guess it really depends on where but from my personal experiences in different cities in the eastern and southern U.S. yes. In a wilderness environment I prefer having a larger heavy fixed blade knife along for chopping chores and all around camp work and usually smaller thinner fixed blade knife for detail work and whittling. In a truly urban environment like a large city that's just not a practical approach. Most cities have laws that forbid the carrying of any large fixed blade knives in the open and to keep it concealed means you risk being charged with carrying a concealed weapon.

I think most people are so enveloped in their own thoughts and tasks that they are often oblivious to just how many eyes are on them at any given moment as they go about their lives in a large city. Especially in a tourist town. There are the cops that are watching out for the safety of the tourists and they don't all wear uniforms or look like you'd expect a police officer to look. Then there is the local street population...many of whom are predatory opportunists that do nothing but prowl their areas looking for a possible score. There are the people who know the dangers there but not so much how to tell who is who so fear and watch everyone who doesn't look like a tourist or the local "business class" who will call the police and exaggerate the situation the get the person searched and checked out. It's best to be able to blend in so small and minimal is a better approach. It's good to come across as non-threatening to the police and sheeple, and non-profitable to the predators while appearing confident and at home. To accomplish this you need to not always appear the same and not appear as if you are on an expedition. At times you may need to cache part of of your stuff and put part in your pockets. Small usually doesn't equal tough and tough equipment is a good thing in any type of "survival" situation. So for me it's a small but tough fixed blade I want on me in an urban environment. One that I have multiple carry options with.
 
In my very limited hostile environment experience even I can visualize the useful features that this knife has in such environments.

I happen to own one and I see it as a very practical tool.
 
Thank you kind sir. I was wondering if I needed another knife;)


Darn!! I think I have that covered.:D
 
udtjim said:
Thank you kind sir. I was wondering if I needed another knife;)


Darn!! I think I have that covered.:D
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No problem bro, I know that feeling too lol. I have some good small fixed blades but they are all in leather sheaths that don't fit the carry options I want and they are in 1/8 steel and I want something a little thicker. I once had this particular base covered pretty well with a couple of small Benchmade fixed blades in kydex sheaths that I used for urban carry. Unfortunately they were among the things to get sold off to help fund a custody battle. In trying to replace them I decided I liked the looks of the RATs better for this so now I am really looking forward to the HEST. I think it will cover this base better than any knife I've had. I'm really looking forward to the up coming project.

.
 
Don Rearic said:
"Beef's" post reeked, admit it and acknowledge that is what I was talking about and let's move on...unless you agree with him and then, well, change the forum name. This is just stupid.

Yeah, and while you're at it, why don't you admit that unless someone suffers a severe injury or they are STUPID, they are basically never going to need these skills in this country except in the most remote areas of it.

I just think the whole "Bushcraft" angle is being worn down to the bone. I know it is popular and it makes money and it's this, that and the other, but to evaluate every piece of gear or skillset compared to what people are calling "Bushcraft" is getting to the point of lunacy.
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My post reeks? Um, thanks.

Noone has said that this forum must only deal with wilderness topics. But the majority of topics are wilderness based. Thus the HEST, first and foremost an urban survival knife doesn't get seen here much. That was the gist of this entire thread.

If you don't like the term bushcraft, that's fine. But it's not really what's being discussed here.
 
Don Rearic said:
I'll tell you another thing, I would like to see a lot more threads ON "Bushcrafting" instead of simply sitting around and bragging about the latest Bushcrafting Knife or bellyaching about what newest knife is not suitable for same. THAT is interesting and valuable. Bragging and bellyaching...isn't.
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What's worse is the the fact that so many good, informative tutorials or threads here, that took time to put together by a contributor, for the large part, go unnoticed or drowned out in the pages.... It is the contributors that determine the quality of the forum experience, and it does more good to recognize them...

As for the knife gawking, well, this is bladeforums after all....
 
Rat cutlery got its fame from well made simple straight forward designs so it seems unsurprising that most people are skeptical when they come up with some weirdo design.
Would they have made some strong short leaf shaped knife many people would probably have been happy with it.
I can live with the wire breaker.
The idea of packing some prybar for rough work is ok but actual position seems cumbersome.
The bottle opener is really unnecessary.
 
That's the thing, RAT didn't design it, Pelton did. He wanted it to his specs, for his purposes. They made it the way he wanted it and he seems happy with it.

Same with the RC5, the RAT guys don't really like it, but it was spec'ed out by some SERE instructors, and RAT made it to their specs.

They are very responsive to their customers, even when they don't like their customer's designs personally.

Like I'm sure the custom makers make knives that they would use if you paid them to, yet that's what the customer wanted. . .
 
Cpl Punishment said:
That's the thing, RAT didn't design it, Pelton did. He wanted it to his specs, for his purposes. They made it the way he wanted it and he seems happy with it.

Same with the RC5, the RAT guys don't really like it, but it was spec'ed out by some SERE instructors, and RAT made it to their specs.

They are very responsive to their customers, even when they don't like their customer's designs personally.

Like I'm sure the custom makers make knives that they would use if you paid them to, yet that's what the customer wanted. . .
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It's hard for a lot people who have never really experienced hostile urban environments from a civilian perspective, especially those of a third world country, to fathom the different things one may do with a knife in some situations. Most serious beer drinker knows that not all bottling companies in the world use screw off lids. It could come to a time when that bottle opener comes in handy not for calmly sitting a round drinking a few beers but for opening bottles as quickly as possible, quickly whittling "corks", and cutting wicks for molotov cocktails to defend yourself, create a road block, or just create a distraction in order to E&E in another direction. For such a situation this particular knife would be pretty handy in my opinion.
 
beef said:
If you don't like the term bushcraft, that's fine. But it's not really what's being discussed here.
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I don't necessarily dislike the term, "Bushcraft." What I intensely dislike is judging everything by its value in a "Bushcraft" context.

I have been fair with you. Your point about grip and comfort with the HEST, for example...I understand that. I don't think everyone should run out and purchase a HEST, or anything else for that matter. I have never bashed a Mora and have never owned one, and I don't condemn the people who own them, either. People that bash Moras because they won't chop cinderblocks get on my nerves just as badly.
 
Reading back, I don't think we really have anything to argue about. To each their own. Mora and an RC-4 for me. It's just that the HEST is so close to being my ideal knife.
 
Well, I would just love to get me a fine little Mora and Kochanski's Bushcrafting and some nice time in the woods with both and a pile of wood.

I just sort of glaze over at the, I don't want to say "elitist" or "cultish" aspects of what "Bushcraft" is becoming online...because I think both of those words are too harsh in this instance...

I just think it sucks when people have to come in and take a dump on other people who happen to like Moras or when people who are into "Bushcraft" leave a pile on people that might consider themselves more into "survivalism."

Bushcraft is definitely a valid part of survivalism, in my opinion. Primarily, I don't want to see it used as some sort of yardstick for normalcy in outdoor endeavors or as a weapon to slam other people, or their gear or choices for learning specific and sometimes exotic skills.

Maybe Mistwalker and Me and a few other peoples need to start a new movement...Urbancraft. :D
 
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