Why not more Ball Bearing Locked Knives?

batosai117

batosai117

Gold Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2007
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It has been a little while since I've tread the waters here in the spyderco forum, but a thought came to mind as I was looking at a P'Kal on the bay.

Why isn't there a knife with a "manly" size blade with the ball bearing lock produced yet? I used to own a D'allara, great knife, loved the ball bearing lock, but just not eneough blade length for me for the width that it was taking up in my pocket.

If something has come out more recently, then please let me know. The new spyderco Pheonix looks great, but I am hoping for a knife with a bit more blade length to it, something around 3.5" to 4" would be great :thumbup:

Thanks for listening, J.
 
Anybody else feel the same way?

Ball Bearing lock + longer blade = Great Manly Knife :D
 
Yeah, I feel the same way. I wish Spyderco would put the best of everything into one knife. I made a thread a while ago, and my "dream knife" had these specs:

1. 3.5-inch-ish blade
2. Low-ride wire clip
3. Ball lock
4. VG-10 or "better" steel
5. Liners
6. Flat grind
7. "Affordable" ($50-$130)

I guess the picture in my mind is a bigger Caly with a new lock.
 
All I know is they just publically released the new G10 Pollywog.

Cool shape, ball lock, G10, wire clip....

Now I wonder if Tom Krein could flat grind this thing.......
 
batosai117 said:
It has been a little while since I've tread the waters here in the spyderco forum, but a thought came to mind as I was looking at a P'Kal on the bay.

Why isn't there a knife with a "manly" size blade with the ball bearing lock produced yet? I used to own a D'allara, great knife, loved the ball bearing lock, but just not eneough blade length for me for the width that it was taking up in my pocket.

If something has come out more recently, then please let me know. The new spyderco Pheonix looks great, but I am hoping for a knife with a bit more blade length to it, something around 3.5" to 4" would be great :thumbup:

Thanks for listening, J.
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I had no idea you were so fond of ball-locks :D

The Dodo is probabaly my favorite of the knives with the BB lock but a larger knife would be nice to see.
Something like the Chinnok, big Persian or Manix would be a winner :thumbup:
 
I badly need a (Mini) Manix with caged BB-lock, S30V (or better) blade, G10 handle... ;)
 
Haze said:
I had no idea you were so fond of ball-locks :D

The Dodo is probabaly my favorite of the knives with the BB lock but a larger knife would be nice to see.
Something like the Chinnok, big Persian or Manix would be a winner :thumbup:
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That's what I'm talking about. Or even somehting like an Endura blade with a G-10 handle and a ball bearing lock would be nice. All of the BB lock knives out have 3" or less blades, I'm sure that's legal to carry just about anywhere, but I'm from Texas, and I want a bigger knife :D
 
I'll add my .02 cents. I would like to see more knives with the ball lock. I used to have a D'allara and loved the ball lock, but, like mentioned above, it took up too much pocket space and I sold it. If my Sage with it's wire clip and CF scales had a ball lock on it right now I'd be in heaven.
 
I love the ball lock. A lot better then the Axis lock imho. I do currently own the D'Allara, and I love the knife. It opens really smooth and the lockup is very impressive.

I think a couple reasons are the need for liners, to retain the ball, and the space it takes up. I would love to see a larger Tenacious style knife in the G-10, although now that the Pollywog is pimped out in G-10 I'm going to have to pick that up. I missed out on the Dodo and the Yojimba. <-- I'm pretty sure I misspelled that.

4 position metal clip, G-10 or CF scales, open pillar construction... It'd be a dream.

How big of a "manly" knife are you talking about? My millie is only a bit bigger then my D'Allara. I think that once you start getting into 4-5" folders, you start looking like Cold Steel. :(
 
Josh K said:
I love the ball lock. A lot better then the Axis lock imho. I do currently own the D'Allara, and I love the knife. It opens really smooth and the lockup is very impressive.

I think a couple reasons are the need for liners, to retain the ball, and the space it takes up. I would love to see a larger Tenacious style knife in the G-10, although now that the Pollywog is pimped out in G-10 I'm going to have to pick that up. I missed out on the Dodo and the Yojimba. <-- I'm pretty sure I misspelled that.

4 position metal clip, G-10 or CF scales, open pillar construction... It'd be a dream.

How big of a "manly" knife are you talking about? My millie is only a bit bigger then my D'Allara. I think that once you start getting into 4-5" folders, you start looking like Cold Steel. :(
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I guess I mean more blade edge. It seems that with a wide blade it gives off the illusion of having a short stubby knife. I like the Military a lot, but it would be nice to stick that idea with a ball bearing lock and keep the blade thick up to the tip for more utility/outdoor uses.
 
The problem with making larger ball-lock knives is keeping the closed width reasonable. It took a long while to engineer the P'kal, and they had to redesign the lock several times to get the width of the knife where they wanted it, creating the caged ball lock in the process. The basic lock demands a relatively wide knife with the pivot offset toward the edge, causing the closed width to be even greater. Add in the leverage of a longer blade and the pivot area gets wider yet to take the strain. The other big problem is the demand for four-way clips. Putting a tip-down clip on either a ball lock or Axis lock knife means either blocking access to the lock release or putting the clip below the release and letting a third of the knife stick out of the pocket when it is clipped, neither of which is desirable. A shame, too, since I personally don't feel that either the ball lock or Axis lock has enough closing bias to be safely carried tip up.
 
Problem for me with the ball lock is closing it. Works find under ideal conditions, but with wet, numb, or greasy hands it's damn near impossible to release. I'll stick with the 100% reliable mid lock. Unless your thumb falls off, it's a cinch to close.
 
Golbat said:
I badly need a (Mini) Manix with caged BB-lock, S30V (or better) blade, G10 handle... ;)
Click to expand...

Yeah, what about that one? I heard a rumor about it a while ago, but never heard of it since.

I would like a regular Manix with ball lock too. And titanium liners. And contoured G-10. Is that so much to ask? :D
 
Hi Batosai,

thanx for the comments.

Ball locks are hard to make. We have one maker in Seki that can do it and we can do it in Golden, but our other makers are not confident to make them in production. And our one Seki maker than can do it, doesn't like to.

As "Yab" suggested, a great deal of development time was needed. The P'kal was a test design. So far, real world testing has shown the ball-cage to be effective and reliable.

Eric is working on a new version of the Manix design with a ball-cage lock. We'll make it in Golden. It's thinner and lighter.

sal
 
Wow! A new manix with a ball lock makes my day!!! I cant wait for this o come out it just may be my first spyderco unless i get a zdp caly for xmas, or a millie in BG-42.....and the list goes on.
-Barry-
 
Excuse my ignorance if this isn't a good concept, but why doesn't a knife-maker make semi custom knives like nike has for shoes (you know where you pick the style and shoe color and everything). You could have a choice of "frame" to start out with, which would have the handle and blade style. Then you could pick blade steel, clip style, screws, etc. You could pick a locking mechanism, even assisted opener or regular, as well as thumbstud or thumb hole or nail nick or what have you. You could even choose colored handles and material used for handles. It would be an expensive knife, but if they properly designed it and priced the knives based on the choices you made (like, this feature adds an additional $20) they could feasibly keep them relatively affordable (once again depending on the features you choose) while still offering uniquely custom knives.

I mean, it sounds like it would be a hassle, but most of the major companies definitely have the staff and ability to make this happen, plus it would bring them so much business I couldnt see how it wouldn't work. It would need to be a well designed interactive web program, but I think it would be a great idea.

Oh, and if a knife maker reads this and follows up on it, I'd enjoy it if I could get one of these at some type of discount.
 
KingGeorgeIII said:
most of the major companies definitely have the staff and ability to make this happen, plus it would bring them so much business I couldnt see how it wouldn't work.
Click to expand...

What makes you think those staff people aren't already working as hard as they can keeping the normal production lines going?

How much do you think it would cost to run off one set of scales in a new colour? You'd probably have an easier time getting a custom maker to do it from scratch. Which is what people do (there's an entire forum set up here for that very purpose.) And Sal (as far as i know) isn't sweating it--he sold the original knife, and he's happy that people like his designs enough to customize them.

Next, what makes you think the marketplace would actually bear the added cost? Spyderco is already one of the most economically-priced lines in the marketplace, and they're still having a hard time competing the chinese knock-offs.
Sure, the knife-nuts here at the forum buy up some of the sprint runs. But I'd bet that those sprint runs don't sell nearly as well as the "stock" items.

In a perfect world, yeah, all the knife companies would be able to deliver the economies of scale and the hand-crafted-custom attention to detail at the same time. I can think of a company that used to work something like that, but they eventually had to capitalize on the "hand-built" moniker for value-added, while the quality of the work on their actual production line went more or less downhill. (Those who know the company will know what I'm talking about...)

Spyderco isn't everthing to everyone. But the blades are sharp, the locks don't fail, and every once in a while Sal gives the forum fanatics a special treat that keeps us coming back for more.
 
Haze said:
Because Nike shoes are made in a sweat shop in China/India by a work force that is payed peanuts. :rolleyes:

Spyderco knives are not.
Click to expand...

Thank you for mocking my post that I put effort into writing. Judging by your obnoxiously sarcastic reply, I am assuming you didn't even read what I wrote after the first line. I am surprisingly offended, which doesn't happen that often to me.
 
KingGeorgeIII said:
Thank you for mocking my post that I put effort into writing. Judging by your obnoxiously sarcastic reply, I am assuming you didn't even read what I wrote after the first line. I am surprisingly offended, which doesn't happen that often to me.
Click to expand...

Ummm.... The rest of your post was just the detailes of "your" idea.
Along with the hope of being rewarded with a discount if some one uses it :rolleyes:

I was not mocking your post, I was pointing out that Nike have vastly different production methods than Spyderco so are able to offer such options at minimal extra cost.
That should be obvious to even the most simple minded person.

KingGeorgeIII said:
I am surprisingly offended
Click to expand...

Good, I always try my best :thumbup:
 
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