Why Sebenza vs other customs knives?

[John T Wylie Jr]

Strider SnG CC, or SMF.
Kirby Lambert Inferno or Sniper
Caswell ~ EDC
Pat Nihiser ( most of his are around $500 )
Burke Rockstar ( production or custom )
at $500 you have many options. cruise the various dealers ( Les has some good stuff up now ) as well as the for sale area.

If you are dead set on a Sebby you should be able to find a lightly used one for $50-$100+ off a new one.

 

[nozh2002]

I personally like a small compact knife that is extremely tough.

Anyone that says a sebbie is not that is not going to be humored with a conversation arguing that point by me.

Nobody never sad that Sbenza is bad or not tough or something, nobody question quality, but price and hype around it only. I also like small tough knives and I have Kershaw Cyclone for this reason. Which has thick Titanium scales, Frame lock and ZDP189 blade and switchable Speed Safe system. I have two of this little beauties (beautiful without any decoration) for little more then $100.

As a compliment to Kershaw I should mention that it was made based on our requests - quite a bit of us ask Thomas to make this knife in Ti and ZDP and Kershaw did - do you know any other company so responsive? May be Spyderco only...

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[nozh2002]

Great discussion. Very helpful to me; I really appreciate it. And I love the Sebenza porn. But there's this question - what specific customs would you put against a Sebenza in the $500 and lower range for a working knive. I saw a few Mayo mentions, Vassili likes his Yuna, and Hinderer came up a few times. Any others?
Porn Welcome!

JPHolmes makes classical folders with CPM S90V

http://www.jphknives.com/folders.html

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[T.K.C.]

Great discussion. Very helpful to me; I really appreciate it. And I love the Sebenza porn. But there's this question - what specific customs would you put against a Sebenza in the $500 and lower range for a working knive. I saw a few Mayo mentions, Vassili likes his Yuna, and Hinderer came up a few times. Any others?
Porn Welcome!

I would put up a Hinderer XM-18, Tom Mayo TNT's, Yuna Mini Hard 1, Kirby Lambert Inferno frame lock, Jim Burke Rock Star Terzuloa 3B. Yeah, I agree about Pat Nihiser, Joe Caswell and Peter Carey!!

 

[nathan310]

Nobody never sad that Sbenza is bad or not tough or something, nobody question quality, but price and hype around it only. I also like small tough knives and I have Kershaw Cyclone for this reason. Which has thick Titanium scales, Frame lock and ZDP189 blade and switchable Speed Safe system. I have two of this little beauties (beautiful without any decoration) for little more then $100.

As a compliment to Kershaw I should mention that it was made based on our requests - quite a bit of us ask Thomas to make this knife in Ti and ZDP and Kershaw did - do you know any other company so responsive? May be Spyderco only...

Thanks, Vassili.

Without a doubt that's a very nice knife and very good of them on their part to be so responsive to customer feedback.

 

[Jos]

Some of you guys try so hard to find some hidden reason why people own Sebenzas. Maybe we just like them?

Nooooooo.... You spoiled it! Now everybody knows!!

 

[Confederate]

It's apparent that we're not going to change the mind of somebody who is already biased. But once you've beaten the shit out of that zt try sending it to Kershaw to be made like new and see what they tell you.

"Biased" is a good word, and it's a fair word. It's not like "prejudiced," which implies irrational or preconceived thought. Bias instead implies a preference or a predilection towards something. Certain cassette tape decks were "biased" towards a type of tape.

When one speaks of a firearm, one can measure performance in conjunction with skill. It thus is demonstrable. To some a gun is a tool, or to others a sport, or a weapon of defense. One might not need an expensive gun to save one's shorts.

With knives, performance is far more difficult to ascertain. A person may have an expensive knife for two years and love it; however, another may have a $70 knife for the same amount of time and be just as attached. When one sinks hundreds of dollars more into a knife, it's difficult to argue that it performs better than other, more inexpensive, knives. Some might ask, who cares if Kershaw won't refurbish old knives? If one wants a knife that appears new, all it takes is buying a new one, and for probably less than it costs to refurbish a Sebenza. It's clear the Kershaw will not match the Sebenza in workmanship, but it may well match it in performance, weight and comfort. The question becomes, when does workmanship and tolerances become a diminishing return?

Sebenzas are more expensive because they're well made, and many people like knives that exude quality (the same could be said of cars, tools, guns, etc.), but I'm not sure those likes translate into better performance as they relate to knives. A sports car will usually give superior workmanship and speed, while a fine limo will offer superior workmanship and comfort but, again, fine knives are often more difficult to quantify.

So when spending hundreds of dollars on a knife, when you could get a very good one for a fraction of that amount, the bottom line is subjectivity. You pays your money and you takes your choice.

 

[SpyderJon]

The Sebenza has a stellar reputation. And I love framelocks. But if you were to have around $500 to spend on a really good folder, which will be a using folder, then what would make you get a Sebenza vs something like a Brian Tighe or a Pat Crawford (just examples, but found both for under $500 on the net today).

I know there's just the matter of taste; different knives appeal to different folks. But the Sebenza has such a very large reputation that I wanted to ask folk who maybe had both a Sebbie and a custom what they felt about it.

I have a whole lot of good factory knives, knives in the $100 to $200 range, but I've always wanted to have a least one really good knife, a custom knife. Like a Lexus rather than a Toyota. I plan on doing this within the year so I'm hoping to get some opinions. ($500 ain't chicken feed for me - I got kids)

Thanks, everybody.

My friend, two names bubble to the top of my sub-$500 list for folders:

1. Jones Brothers (especially the Responder)

and

2. R.J. Martin (especially the Zing, and the Devastator)

I've had 5 Sebenzas. Had 'em, used 'em, sold 'em. I'm sorry, and I may get flamed for it, but my Buck/Mayo 172 that I paid $120 for was in every way the equal to any of the Sebenzas that I had. Maybe Buck was just having a good production moment that day, but my 172 was (and is) still a STUNNING value in production knives.

My current EDC is a Jones Brothers folding dagger that I've carried for over a year. Its performed flawlessly. Occasionally I mix it up and carry one of my Devastators (lefty tanto and regular blades). These are superb tools.

Now, if I were to get a CRK, I'd get a Mnandi simply because I need a nice business appropriate knife. Still, for the price of a Mnandi- with some careful looking- I could get a custom Zing from RJ. If I mess it up, or after a few years will he make it perfect again? Yup. Will Kershaw do the same for the production versions (the Groove and the soon-to-be Zing)? Probably not, but why would they? So what? If I get my money out of it, why not just buy another?

For example, I've owned the same belt for the past 3 years. I paid just under $70 for this belt. I am telling you that aside from some *slight* elongation of the belt hole (which hasn't changed since the initial "break in" period) and some rubbing of the anodized finish on the buckle, you would not know this belt isn't new. My point? If you look at all the time I've used it I've paid about $0.06-per-day to own this belt. Now, if it fails tomorrow would I complain? NO. I'd just go buy another. The refurb service from CRK is nice, and the price for the Sebenza is certainly in line with the costs that a small specialty company would need to charge for the materials CRK uses in their knives, but after all, they are just knives. There are plenty of good alternatives out there. Thus, I carry customs because of the people that make them. Maybe others have different priorities, but those are mine.

Sorry this is so long. Just wanted to add my .02

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

Dunno how I forgot about the Jones Bro's. Awesome knives , and that Mini-Mongoose Folder that Az custom knives just sold was awesome.

 

[CL01]

This has been an interesting thread & it continues to amaze me how Sebenzas always seem to generate a thread like this.

I've had a few customs, & 2 different Sebs, & a couple Bradley Alias's. In comparing the Alias's to the Sebs, you have to look close, but there're differences in them. You can see where B/M didn't do certain things that CRK does to keep costs down. It's as simple as that. The real question is, whether those differences mean enough to you to get one. They were for me, but maybe not for someone else.

I honestly can't/don't think of them as "cult" knives. Even Sal (Of Spyderco) has posted what he thinks of Seb's & why they cost what they do, & that Mr. Reeves makes a product (Production knife) that no one else does. It's the little things, but as has been mentioned, whether those little things matters enough to you to buy one is entirely up to the person. It IS very subjective. They sell all they make, so they must be pricing them correctly & doing something right.

If you look around, you can find used Sebs for a fair amount below retail (Which all Sebs sell for through stores). However, you probably won't find them too below retail, because anyone can send a Seb in for a complete refurb & it's not that expensive. For the price, I don't think any production company provides that service & it'll probably be a longer wait & more expensive to do that with a custom.

Now, if wanting a simplified design, ti fame lock with great F&F, quality, excellent CS, & the ability to get it completely refurbished for a very reasonable price means I'm part of the "cult" of Sebenzas, then I'm guilty. But I really think it's just a matter of I like the knife & all the aforementioned attributes that comes with it. No, it's not for everyone (Thankfully!), but then neither is a Hinderer or Strider, but they are VERY nice.

 

[nathan310]

Kershaw are decent knives...

But the last time I bought a kershaw(s30v g10 leek) it was dull out of the box .

Now for a $80-90 knife I was suprised to find it wouldn't cut paper.

The funny part to me was it had a orange sticker on the inner wrapping that said "Warning Kershaw knives are extremely sharp!" .

I haven't bought another one since and I have heard of a few other people that got kershaws that were dull out of the box too.

That made me think that although they have reasonablelly priced knives...

Do I really want a knife with that poor of workmanship at any price?

And if the knife is dull is there other quality problems with it that I will find out about when I use it?

Like lock failure or something that will cost me big time?

I see knives they make that look very nice but I doubt I will ever buy one again.

Maybe I'm just being picky but I'm keeping it real.

 

[nozh2002]

Kershaw are decent knives...

But the last time I bought a kershaw(s30v g10 leek) it was dull out of the box .

Now for a $80-90 knife I was suprised to find it wouldn't cut paper.

The funny part to me was it had a orange sticker on the inner wrapping that said "Warning Kershaw knives are extremely sharp!" .

I haven't bought another one since and I have heard of a few other people that got kershaws that were dull out of the box too.

That made me think that although they have reasonablelly priced knives...

Do I really want a knife with that poor of workmanship at any price?

And if the knife is dull is there other quality problems with it that I will find out about when I use it?

Like lock failure or something that will cost me big time?

I see knives they make that look very nice but I doubt I will ever buy one again.

Maybe I'm just being picky but I'm keeping it real.

I do not think it is a good to badmouth other knife manufacturer in general to make Sebenza look good - I guess it make Sebenza looks bad too, because when you badmouth something it dirts everything involved into discussion. It just turns into negative discussion. Especially those speculations on overall quality based on dull edge - I can say that Busse comes out of the box very dull but it does not compromizing manufacturing quality and they have cult much more stronger then your Sebenza cult...

I am not sure about this experience it depends on knife (did you send it back to Kershaw to fix it for free? I remember they do resharpening this way few earliest ZDP Leek).

... but JYDII Ti/ZDP189 I got from the box hair whittling sharp, and not only for me but everybody.

Can Sebenza whittle hair like this out of the box? Because I know only two those models were able to do this out of the box.

Thanks, Vassili.

 

[nathan310]

Wow dude!

Are you for real?

Because I shared my actual experience you want to get all worked up and say I'm bad mouthing?

That's on you.

If a knife comes dull out of the box is that good workmanship or bad?

This had nothing to do with your opinion on what pricing in the knife world should be.

You can say a knife you never owned is hyped up and overpriced but if someone says a knife from a company you happen to like came dull out of the box and they don't trust their stuff it's badmouthing?

Are you in reality?

Did you forget your meds?

After talking to you for a while I'm starting to wonder.

 

[nozh2002]

Wow dude!

Are you for real?

Because I shared my actual experience you want to get all worked up and say I'm bad mouthing?

That's on you.

If a knife comes dull out of the box is that good workmanship or bad?

This had nothing to do with your opinion on what pricing in the knife world should be.

You can say a knife you never owned is hyped up and overpriced but if someone says a knife from a company you happen to like came dull out of the box and they don't trust their stuff it's badmouthing?

Are you in reality?

Did you forget your meds?

After talking to you for a while I'm starting to wonder.

Thanks, I will memorize you kind words.

Have a nice day!

Vassili.

 

[nathan310]

You do that.

 

[Rich357]

There are a lot of 1911s on the market. My favorate is the Les Baer Ultimate Master with the 1.5 inch option. It has an outstanding trigger and is very reliable. I love my S&W Performance Center 952. But, I have a bunch of Glocks and love them too.

To me the Sebenza is much like a Les Baer 1911. Or maybe an Ed Brown. Their Kobra Carry is really outstanding. Very nice limited production tools.

Rich

 

[SIFU1A]

sorry , but in my eyes , there isn't anything elegant about a plain seb.

None of us will ever agree on one knife , buy what suits you , what suits your uses and in a price range that makes sense to you.

Each of us has an opinion of what a knife should feel like in the hand , I used to think the seb felt good , but upon seeking other knives , I found many that felt far better in my hand than the Seb ( speaking of the large & small reg , don't / never have owned a classic ). My others are staying , the seb is going.

Only way to be sure is to handle them , then make your choice.

imho 100% correct.

its like chocolate vs vanilla, ford vs chevy, just depends on what "grabs" ya.

now me? i have had a couple of sebs and have handled a few more, and they just never grabbed me for whatever reason, in fact i just gave my son my last seb for his 18th b-day, of all my knives to him the sebs the nicest/neatest, go figure lol.

but, just because they arent my fav doesnt make them bad, the are excellent little knives with great F&F and great materials.

 

[enderwiggin]

I do not think it is a good to badmouth other knife manufacturer in general to make Sebenza look good - I guess it make Sebenza looks bad too, because when you badmouth something it dirts everything involved into discussion. It just turns into negative discussion.

Didn't you just spend, oh, the last three pages of this Sebenza thread posting photos of knives from other makers, highlighting and listing how you believe the Sebenza is inferior to those other maker's knives?

I know there's a hairline distinction there, but I don't think that's very far off from "badmouthing" a company.

In keeping with the thread's theme:

I happen to really like this graphic Sebenza. I think it's beautiful, even though big side graphics aren't what I'd normally look for in a knife. The Sebenza is so simple that it just lends to etching like this.

As commentary on Sebenzas being overly simplistic, I was lucky to pick up a few Snap-on tools from a family friend not too long ago. I have a couple torque wrenches, a few shorty screwdrivers, and a small ratchet setup. All of the tools are extremely simplistic in design. The torque wrenches are just knurled, 2-piece bars with graduated lines on them for torque settings.

Compared to the rubber gripped, bi-color digital readout, chrome torque wrench I keep in my car, they look a little outdated. But just by picking one up and fiddling with it, it becomes apparent how much quality Snap-on was able to put into a simple wrench!

 

[rolexkid]

getting back to the kershaw cyclone, doesn't that have aluminum handles? don't believe its ti....

 

[CL01]

getting back to the kershaw cyclone, doesn't that have aluminum handles? don't believe its ti....

This thread originated about Sebenzas, but that particular model mini-Cyclone is the Ti ZDP189. No longer made, it has a Ti frame lock & ZDP189 blade vs aluminum scales, liner lock, & Sandvik blade (Which they still make, along with a reg. size version).