Why sebenza?

[Fisher of Men]

Who here votes affirmative to making stickies of the following subjects:
Strider threads vs "X" threads; Sebenza versus "X" threads and Sebenza versus Strider threads. Each thread will contain mandatory participation by certain members who've weighed in on all the above threads in the past. We could optionally create a FAQ, but it's more closely associated with FA (Frequent Arguments).

There is an easier solution.

It's called read the rules of the forum.....and then do a search.

Instead of us all responding we need to simply tell the newbie to do a search.

That's common courtesy at all forums.

 

[Boink]

You see, no matter how nice Mr. Reeves makes the Sebenza, it's still a frame-lock, and frame-locks have some of the same shortcomings that liner-locks have.

Now if he made a lock-back Sebenza I might consider one.

Allen.

You mean you have the Spyderco Police model whose pivot will fail before its lock does?

 

[Cliff Stamp]

When a buyer spends so much on a knife as a Sebenza, if he wore out the blade he would likely have it replaced, a service CRK provides for a price.

Yes, and for that price you could just buy another of the same Spyderco and still have less money spent considering the additional cost of the Sebenza, so it isn't like you gain anything by being able to replace the blade. You could even take the Spyderco and get a custom maker to replace the blade and still be in money.

-Cliff

 

[Boats]

I especially liked "if the Sebenza's pivot wears out, I'll order a new one, five minutes later, with a special tool, good as new."

Dang if that isn't the same procedure for getting nominal cost replacement pivot washers from Benchmade thrown into my 806D2, not that it has needed them even after what by now must be over a thousand flicks, most for no particular purpose at all other than pocket draw practice.

 

[cockroachfarm]

Don't you men do any work during the day? (heh heh, here I am during work)

Who here votes affirmative to making stickies of the following subjects:
Strider threads vs "X" threads; Sebenza versus "X" threads and Sebenza versus Strider threads. Each thread will contain mandatory participation by certain members who've weighed in on all the above threads in the past. We could optionally create a FAQ, but it's more closely associated with FA (Frequent Arguments).

Oh, yes - PLEASE!!!!

 

[allenC]

Boink,
I'm not sure just what you're talking about.

I have the G-10 Police with the adjustable screw pivot.
I don't think the pivot or the lock would fail before the "locking bar pivot pin" did.

I've broken a Case Sharktooth and a Spyderco Delica and the locking bar pivot pin (not the blade pivot pin) seems to be the weak link in a lock-back design.

Allen.

 

[Kohai999]

I have the G-10 Police with the adjustable screw pivot.
I don't think the pivot or the lock would fail before the "locking bar pivot pin" did.

I've broken a Case Sharktooth and a Spyderco Delica and the locking bar pivot pin (not the blade pivot pin) seems to be the weak link in a lock-back design.

Allen.

Yes, on lockbacks, the lockbar pivot pin is ONE of the weaker areas. It is constantly under tension, and that is one of the biggest reasons that a rear/mid/forward lock can fail, especially when there are not liners of titanium or steel.

The other biggie is lint or other foreign matter in the locking area that can cause a very poor mating between the locking bar and the pivot lug, resulting in not lock failure, but failure of lock to engage.

This has happened to me somewhat frequently.

Every locking mechanism has its' faults.

I carry an Axis lock as an EDC and have for two years. It has not failed me yet, but I like pretty much all locking mechanisms. They all have pros and cons.

I own two Sebenzas, a blackwood inlaid Classic, and a Small Serial numbered one. They are excellent knives.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[KeithAM]

I don't usually get involved with these threads anyway, but I'm swearing off these them starting now. No point to them.

That said, it burns me a little when you closely read the "critics" posts and see that some of these folks have never held a Sebenza, let alone used one (see post speculating that Sebenza ergos don't stack up to BM 520 or 710). Or they confuse "pivot bushing" with "pivot" or "pivot washers."

Anyway, I'm not Sebenza-only. I still buy and regularly use Benchmades, Spydercos and other production knives. There are lots of great knives out there.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I've broken a Case Sharktooth and a Spyderco Delica and the locking bar pivot pin (not the blade pivot pin) seems to be the weak link in a lock-back design.

How did the knives break, did the bar fail to engage completely? What was being done with them? Was it a case of wear out, or just sudden overload?

Ref :

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=348857

Which I assume was spawned by this thread.

You are into testing and the cutting ability of knives and nothing beyond that.

I do a fair amount of "testing", meaning work done which doesn't need to be outside of the purpose of evaluating the knife, such as the carpet cutting I have been doing recently.

However I use knives constantly, I spent yesterday afternoon hauling up wood for lumber, during that time I used various knives heavily cutting brush clearing a trail for a 4x4.

If you read the reviews you will note that they contain both types of commentary, stock tests on common materials, hemp, basswood, etc., as well as user feedback based on EDC and similar.

In terms of my viewpoint, it is mainly on performance, I can appreciate cosmetics, but would not sacrifice performance for looks. You can get both at the same time though, for example Clement's sheaths, or one of Cashen's large Damascus fixed blades :

http://www.warriorschest.com/images/benchmade1.jpg

http://store1.yimg.com/I/knifeart_1842_21049862

Do you have a contract with Spyderco?

No.

Do they send you a lot of free knives and you feel obliged to promote their knives?

Yes, I have recieved knives from them to review, this is public information on the forums. No I don't feel obliged to promote them because of it.

The only difference in a review of a knife I buy and one which is donated is that on a knife which is donated I will some times put restrictions on use, usually more of an issue with individual users rather than manufacturers however and in either case this gets noted in the review.

If you read the reviews you will note that they contain lots of information which isn't promotional as it discusses the weakpoints and drawbacks of the designs, all knives including ones donated or that I buy.


Read as an example the recent review of the Catcherman, while it does discuss several positive aspects of the knife it also mentions several factors which could be drawbacks such as the serrations, flexiblity of the blade, length issues as well as general cleaning and maintenance of a folder vs fixed blade (the latter was an update due to user feedback).

Do you have a drink with Sal every now and again?

No.

You take every opportunity to diss Sebenza, Striders and pretty much everything but Spyderco.

Hyperbolic nonsense, I participate in a small amount of the total Sebenza / Strider threads, both in terms of my post percentage and the total post percentage, far less than the extreme fans of both. My posts simply deal with performance related issues of both knives, as do the majority of my posts in general. I also make positive statements about both knives both in the reviews I have written and my posts.

In the future if you, or anyone else make a similar thread and want to make sure I catch it, it would be in your interest to drop me an email, I made it publically available for this reason. I would have caught it eventually, however it got locked before I saw it. I don't mind that type of post, it doesn't have to be constrained to private email, and I think the questions (some of them anyway) are reasonable if you have not been around very long and just jump in and see a small selection of what I have written.

-Cliff

 

[allenC]

Cliff,
I broke them on purpose.
It was an unscientific test of my own to see what it would take for the locks to fail.
I really was trying to see for myself how large the difference was between a lock-back in an FRN handle and one in a brass and wood handle.

I posted my "test" here on the forums, I think.

As I recall, on the Delica, after quite a bit force, the handle deformed at the locking bar pivot, thus allowing the locking lug to slip from the notch in the tang.

The Sharktooth withstood a tremendous amount of pressure before failing.
When it did fail, the locking bar pivot pin sheared totally and cleanly on both sides, without any deformation of the handle (brass liners).

I also broke a Gerber Harsey Air Ranger during that same bout of insanity.

Allen.

 

[arawn]

It saddens me that this thread has turned into a series of denigrating attack, both towards individuals and companies.

I somehow doubt this was the intent of the original poster.

To be honest, much of the content in this thread wouldn't be out of place on the paintball forums I've been forced to swear off. Is it going to get to the point where mods have to restrict "X vs. Y" threads, or relegate them to Whine & Cheese?

Now that would be fun.

Trite but true: there are many different knives for many different users.
One person's investment, personal or otherwise in one particular brand is just that, an investment.

And we all get to choose our own.

Yours in knife knuttery,
B.

 

[HoB]

Good for you Allen. I think everybody should have a bout of insanity like that on occasion !

 

[Cliff Stamp]

...the handle deformed at the locking bar pivot

Yes, that is the real downside to FRN, it will compress a lot easier than G10 or metals. You can reduce this by using larger screws and such which decrease the pressure of a given load.

this thread has turned into a series of denigrating attack, both towards individuals and companies.

All products have fans which are attached to the point of irrationality, you just ignore them and focus on the posts which actually discuss the issues.

If it really bothers you to actually see it, every time you see someone make a personal attack just put them in the kill file.

-Cliff

 

[Lil Timmy]

Cliff, you seem to really like the Chinook and Manix, but in your review of the Chinook the tip of the blade snapped off under light prying. Do you not see it as a major problem?

 

[Cliff Stamp]

...in your review of the Chinook the tip of the blade snapped off under light prying. Do you not see it as a major problem?

It isn't the design I would want for digging in woods no. However it isn't as if a lot of folders would be either. S30V is a fairly brittle steel with low ductility, not a great prying tool in general. The Chinook II also has a low upswept tip with a deep hollow grind. It gives very high penetration if you lead with the tip and in generate has high poking ability.

That is the part of the reviews I dislike the most, I should get vid clips, I often imagine people think of something like a poke in balsa and the tip shatters into fragments. Check around for the heavy duty folder makers and see how many of them will guarantee their products for that type of work, if you find any let me know.

-Cliff

 

[Boink]

Hyperbolic nonsense, I participate in a small amount of the total Sebenza / Strider threads, both in terms of my post percentage and the total post percentage, far less than the extreme fans of both. My posts simply deal with performance related issues of both knives, as do the majority of my posts in general. I also make positive statements about both knives both in the reviews I have written and my posts.

-Cliff

Cliff - Percentages don't count, at least the way you infer. You gotta admit. Where there's mention of Strider, Sebenza or Mad Dog in the general knives forum, you're there weighing in on how they stink and what is better. Taken another way, you participate in these threads close to 100%.

 

[LaBella]

why?????



because!

that is ALL~

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Cliff - Percentages don't count

Not to people who like to exaggerate no. Mainly what happens is all they "see" are those posts and ignore everything else. Those posts are a trival percentage of what I discuss on line, and I ignore many threads in the general forum which discuss those brands or don't discuss performance in them, such as when someone recently asked for links to McClung's knives and I gave him Lew's webpage.

Where there's mention of Strider, Sebenza or Mad Dog in the general knives forum, you're there weighing in on how they stink and what is better.

Count such threads and how often I enter into them and say *only* negative things, it isn't even close to 100%, even when I do participate it is rare for me to only be 100% negative unless the thread has been going on for a significant amount of time and the posts are mainly over the top positive and thus the perspective heavily unbalanced.

Even in this very thread the first post I made notes how the Sebenza offers superior NIB cutting performance to an AFCK. When I tend to be most negative is in responding to wildly exaggerated nonsense such as there are no Sebenza's with problems. Yes Reeve has a high standard of QC, however it isn't perfect nor is there slop coming out of other shops, and lots of shops do more extensive blade testing.

Plus I would never say something as vague and meaninless as "it stinks", what I would say is something like you can find equal or superior performance in less expensive knives, or directly superior performance in knives of similar cost or more expensive, with specific detail about what performance and why.

Only if you are a hard core cultist would you see these as similar statements. Of course you could always argue the facts as well. Those knives by the way are not even the ones with the least set of positive attributes, I have been far more critical of other brands, TOP's and SOG for example.

I would carry a Sebenza and a TUSK many times over before I would pick a Steel Eagle and an X-Ray Vision for example. I would simply pick other blades completely if I had a choice for reasons I have stated previously. Such as this set :

http://www.rakerknives.com/Damascus%20Bowie%207%2004%20004.jpg

http://store1.yimg.com/I/knifeart_1846_17023189

If we are talking about ideals, probably a stockmen with a set of M2 blades by Alvin, a small fixed blade in 15V from Wilson, a rugged utlity from Busse like the new HOG model, and a large chopper/lopper from Cashen, all with leather from Clements. Those knives change from time to time, and there are lots of possible substitues like Kirk for Cashen, but that would make a hell of a working set.

In terms of the Sebenza, I would have no problems carrying it actually, I would prefer it over a great many folders I have used, my main problems with it are the lock is unstable under torques and jams under high pressure. However I can simply find better performance elsewhere, this doesn't mean "it stinks" however.

The Swamp Rat's offer superior performance to the Beckers, the Beckers don't stink though because of this and I would pick them over a lot of fixed blades, just not the Swamp Rat's. There are also a lot of other fixed blades I would pick over the Swamp Rat's in various situations as well, this doesn't mean they stink either. Knife performance isn't that totalitarian.

-Cliff

 

[tom mayo]

It saddens me that this thread has turned into a series of denigrating attack, both towards individuals and companies.

I somehow doubt this was the intent of the original poster.

To be honest, much of the content in this thread wouldn't be out of place on the paintball forums I've been forced to swear off. Is it going to get to the point where mods have to restrict "X vs. Y" threads, or relegate them to Whine & Cheese?

Now that would be fun.

Trite but true: there are many different knives for many different users.
One person's investment, personal or otherwise in one particular brand is just that, an investment.

And we all get to choose our own.

Yours in knife knuttery,
B.

thank you for your clear post on the facts!!!!

 

[Geode]

The original question "Why Sebenza?"

I own several CRK products and which indicates they are worth the money to me. In the aggregate, they must be worth the money to a lot of people because sebenzas appear to be difficult for many dealers to keep in stock.