Why secondary and micro bevels?

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Rick,

This thread started because I could not answer the question myself - a fairly frequent thing with me. I now know that there are many reasons why secondary and micro edges are used along with flat and hollow bevels. In my opinion... some of those reasons have "functional" merit and some do not. At this point, it would not be wise of me to proceed further.
 
BMK said:
Why would anyone test anything that was designed and fabricated by tested and proven methods? Test what?

01 tool steel
Peter's heat treat
if a scandi bevel works
I already know what works in terms of knife design

Test what???
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There's some arrogance!

Let's step away from the grind and look at handle ergonomics/ comfort.

Actual blade shape for the intended use.

Intended use. (You have mentioned selling knives to hunters, have you tested your knives for similar situations; or or even day-day urban use?)

As a maker are you happy with the corrosion resistance of O1?

I thought I new what a knife should be and I found quickly I did not know squat. I am making knives now that are 4 re-designs away from the original. One of my original knives had a blade with plunges that started in the finger groove (similar to a lot of yours), needless to say once I ground it thin enough to make a decent caping knife it also was thin enough to cut your finger; so back to the drawing board.

Your knife passes all of this and meets your standard; then what about the end user. You may think your knives are perfect but? I don't want to be blasphemous but you must be the next coming of Jesus Christ, or in my world Bob Loveless re-incarnate

David Sharp
 
BMK,

Four months is a very short time in knife making. Not enough time to form a sound factual opinion on most any facet of making a knife. There is just too much knowledge to amass. Give yourself a few years I think you will agree with me.

Continue to ask questions and start new threads, there are many on this forum who are more than willing to share their knowledge.
Don't miss out on this, it is priceless.

Regards, Fred
 
...A very short time indeed. That is why my title is "Neophyte", I have stated in this post that "you guys have forgotten more about knife making than I know or care to know" etc... This is a great source of information and I appreciate the help I have gotten here. Thank you.

Fred.Rowe said:
BMK,

Four months is a very short time in knife making. Not enough time to form a sound factual opinion on most any facet of making a knife. There is just too much knowledge to amass. Give yourself a few years I think you will agree with me.

Continue to ask questions and start new threads, there are many on this forum who are more than willing to share their knowledge.
Don't miss out on this, it is priceless.

Regards, Fred
Click to expand...
 
BMK said:
James,

I don't read blade magazines and I am not guided by hearsay.

Again, I have used knives and tools. I know what works and what does not work. I design and fabricate tools that work.

I am sorry if this offends people who spent the better part of their adult lives making knives.

Jeff
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I wonderd how long this would take.
 
Rick Marchand said:
I'm trying to wrap my head around why you lead these threads in the direction that you do. If only you would state your opinion...
Click to expand...

easy it boosts post count and also "credability" on the net

BMK so tell me again that your grind style is not just a secondary bevel at 20-25 degrees on a flat bar of steel after all you can cut with a 90degree edge you can also cut with a grind thats 4 degrees total with a 20 degree secondary bevel.

BTW its a flat grind no matter what angle you pick and no matter how thin you grind it to be it "0" thickness or .002 or .186 ( with a secondary bevel )
call it a scandy if you want but its still just a short flat grind a t a fixed angle
 
Why would anyone test anything that was designed and fabricated by tested and proven methods? Test what?

01 tool steel
Peter's heat treat
if a scandi bevel works
I already know what works in terms of knife design

Test what???


While I can appreciate a simple approach to knife making, prevalence of this attitude thousands of years ago would have us still using rocks tied to antlers for knives. The whole line of reasoning that a proven design and methods don't need to be tested is the opposite to every industry in the world. They are striving to improve their products constantly. And yes, even if a change only results in higher sales, in the eyes of the industry, that is an improvement.

O1 is a fine steel, but maybe there is one you would like better. Peters does a good job by all acounts, but maybe you could do better with each blade getting indiviual attention. Scandinavian grinds work, but different grinds exist for different purposes. If all you need/want is a sharp piece of steel that stays that way for a while, on a handle that doesn't hurt your hand, then you're probably right where you need to be.

To answer the original question, full flat and hollow grinds with secondary bevels cut with less effort than scandinavian grinds, while being stronger latterally at the same time, and potentially weighing less. I'll refrain from blanket statements about convex grinds, since I have not seen what yours look like, and everyone does them differently. They can be wonderful cutters or just barely able to get the job done.

The edge strength and "meat behind the edge" issue is determined by the knife's intended use. Figure out the hardest thing you intend to use the knife to do, and design it accordingly. It's already been said here, but with good steel and proper heat treatment, one can make blade geometry much thinner than commonly accepted with little risk of damage.
 
nevermind, why am I even here?
 
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monkey-knife_1710134i.jpg


Test what???
 
That picture is oddly disturbing -- looks like something out of a horror movie. "Chuckie versus the dual-wielding monkey"
 
A monkey with a knife in both hands is cause for concern. But paired with that look of, yeah I am wearing this outfit, I like it, and I don't give a f*ck what you think, makes it disturbing. :)
 
… just trying to answer a very simple question, in a way Jeff might understand.

“Test what???”

... Your knives!

Until then, it's all just theory.

aa-see-no-evil-monkeys-300x225.jpg
 
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or maybe it's all just bushmonkey business!
 
lazlo said:
That picture is oddly disturbing -- looks like something out of a horror movie. "Chuckie versus the dual-wielding monkey"
Click to expand...

Next frame,...../...... Monkey cuts leash and lashes out! LOL
(you have to use your imagination, in 3D)
 
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Must be the heat!

My behavior on this thread has been:

"Childish and immature, bordering on OCD, but stopping short of being a Troll" :)
 
Tai Goo said:
Must be the heat!

My behavior on this thread has been:

"Childish and immature, bordering on OCD, but stopping short of being a Troll" :)
Click to expand...

In house entertainment is given a certain amount of latitude. We understand.:thumbup:
 
Fred.Rowe said:
In house entertainment is given a certain amount of latitude. We understand.:thumbup:
Click to expand...

Cool! There must still be hope... :)

Do I get to sing us all a song yet?

Oh well,... here goes anyway!

UkuleleBladesmith002.jpg


words & music by Leon Pober

"Tiny Bubbles" :)

Tiny bubbles (tiny bubbles)
In the wine (in the wine)
Make me happy (make me happy)
Make me feel fine (make me feel fine)


Tiny bubbles (tiny bubbles)
Make me warm all over
With a feeling that I'm gonna
Love you till the end of time


So here's to the golden moon
And here's to the silver sea
And mostly here's a toast
To you and me


So here's to the ginger lei
I give to you today
And here's a kiss
That will not fade away
 
I just listened to IZ K's over the rainbow/wonderful world and thought of Tai. I bet he does a good version. Maybe he will do a karaoke backup disc for me to sing along with.

Strum..strum..strum
Somewhere over the rainbow..................
 
Hey Stacy, I bet you remember this one.

Those Monkees alway got the grooviest darn hippy chicks, didn't they?

the-monkees-peter-tork-micky-dolenz-mike-nesmith-davey-jones-4.jpg


Lyrics to Hey Hey We're The Monkees (Theme) :

Here we come, walking down the street
We get the funniest looks from everyone we meet.

Hey, hey, we're the monkees
And people say we monkey around,
But we're too busy singing
To put anybody down.

You know that we want to
Do what we like to do,
The only time we get restless
Is around something new

Hey, hey, we're the monkees
And people say we monkey around,
But we're too busy singing
To put anybody down.

We're just trying to be friendly
So come and Hey, hey, we're the monkees
And people say we monkey around,
But we're too busy singing
To put anybody down.


Anytime or anywhere, just look over your shoulder
Because we'll be standing there.

Hey, hey, we're the monkees
And people say we monkey around,
But we're too busy singing
To put anybody down.

Hey, hey, we're the monkees
And people say we monkey around,
But we're too busy singing
To put anybody down.

We're just trying to be friendly,
So come and Hey, hey, we're the monkees
And people say we monkey around,
But we're too busy singing
To put anybody down.

Hey, hey, we're the monkees!
 
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Tai Goo said:
Cool! There must still be hope... :)

Do I get to sing us all a song yet?

Oh well,... here goes anyway!

UkuleleBladesmith002.jpg


words & music by Leon Pober

"Tiny Bubbles" :)

Tiny bubbles (tiny bubbles)
In the wine (in the wine)
Make me happy (make me happy)
Make me feel fine (make me feel fine)


Tiny bubbles (tiny bubbles)
Make me warm all over
With a feeling that I'm gonna
Love you till the end of time


So here's to the golden moon
And here's to the silver sea
And mostly here's a toast
To you and me


So here's to the ginger lei
I give to you today
And here's a kiss
That will not fade away
Click to expand...

banana.gif banana.gifbanana.gifbanana.gifMuch better than karaoke.
i
 
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