Why the backlock?

R

razcob

Joined
Feb 4, 2002
Messages
417
Why does Spyderco continue to put backlock's on a majority of their knives with the CPM-S30V steel? I would like to buy a Manix with this steel, but the lock concerns me. Tell me how this lock is as safe and convenient as a liner or AXIS lock. If the backlock/lockback was so good, why aren't they as popular with high end manufacturers?

Safety:
What about the possibility of releasing the backlock with a rigid reverse grip on the handle? The backlock may be stronger, but only if it isn't accidentally released with the pressure of your grip.

When you release the lock blade, does the closing pressure increase the closer the blade becomes to full closure. Doesn't this increase your risk of cuts? That ought to add enjoyment to your wilderness trip.

Convenience:
Doesn't it take two hands to close the blade? If the blade and the hand I hold it in becomes contaminated, don't I have to contaminate my other hand to close it.

Tip down may be great for parachuting out of airplanes, but it isn't very convenient to pull a tip down knife from your front pocket while sitting in a car with a safety belt, or squatting down by a river bank to cut a fishing line. You have to dig your fingers in your pocket or lean to one side and straighten out your leg. The lanyard hole is on the wrong side. With a tip up, just a quick tug of an attached "Sebenza" style lanyard and it is out of your pocket.

Fun:
Balisongs, liner locks, and Axis are all fun to manipulate with one hand. The two hand backlock sucks all the fun away.
 
millions of spyderco fans dont seem to have a problem with it.
The david boye detent keeps your from releasing the lock when in a reverse grip
 
sixstrings101 said:
millions of spyderco fans dont seem to have a problem with it.
The david boye detent keeps your from releasing the lock when in a reverse grip
Click to expand...


You say "keeps" but the Spyderco website says otherwise.

Custom knifemaker David Boye removed a small arc or dent of metal from the lock bar lever of his knives. This removed piece lessened the possibility of gripping the handle hard enough to depress the lock and accidentally unlock the blade while using the knife.

Murphy's Law, you can count on it.
 
razcob said:
Why does Spyderco continue to put backlock's on a majority of their knives with the CPM-S30V steel? I would like to buy a Manix with this steel, but the lock concerns me. Tell me how this lock is as safe and convenient as a liner or AXIS lock. If the backlock/lockback was so good, why aren't they as popular with high end manufacturers?

Safety:
What about the possibility of releasing the backlock with a rigid reverse grip on the handle? The backlock may be stronger, but only if it isn't accidentally released with the pressure of your grip.

When you release the lock blade, does the closing pressure increase the closer the blade becomes to full closure. Doesn't this increase your risk of cuts? That ought to add enjoyment to your wilderness trip.

Convenience:
Doesn't it take two hands to close the blade? If the blade and the hand I hold it in becomes contaminated, don't I have to contaminate my other hand to close it.

Tip down may be great for parachuting out of airplanes, but it isn't very convenient to pull a tip down knife from your front pocket while sitting in a car with a safety belt, or squatting down by a river bank to cut a fishing line. You have to dig your fingers in your pocket or lean to one side and straighten out your leg. The lanyard hole is on the wrong side. With a tip up, just a quick tug of an attached "Sebenza" style lanyard and it is out of your pocket.

Fun:
Balisongs, liner locks, and Axis are all fun to manipulate with one hand. The two hand backlock sucks all the fun away.
Click to expand...

Special video, made by me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbmLhzeIwiI

EDIT: Have you handled a Spyderco lockback? The only was it could possibly close when you don't want them to, is to hold in an absurd WTF is a knife grip.
 
Well, pardon my bluntness, but why not???

Backlocks (or lockbacks) work fine and have for many years.
 
razcob said:
You say "keeps" but the Spyderco website says otherwise.

Custom knifemaker David Boye removed a small arc or dent of metal from the lock bar lever of his knives. This removed piece lessened the possibility of gripping the handle hard enough to depress the lock and accidentally unlock the blade while using the knife.

Murphy's Law, you can count on it.
Click to expand...

If your quotin' Murphy than maybe you should be more concerned with usin' a folder when a fixed blade is needed and remember although Spyderco knives seem like they're made for everyone, they're not engineered for the individual.
 
Razcob, I can tell you at least 3 ways to close a Manix one handed.

I have never under any knife use circumstances had a lockback fail on me or release unintentionally. Even grabbing in a Pikal style grip with one finger intentionally placed over the lock release, something I never do in actual use, I can't get it to release no matter how hard I squeeze. I have had liner locks fail on me and I find that they can be released easily when twisting the knife during cuts. Most are very solid during use, even my Military with its oversized release cut-out works well for me.

The Manix can be converted to tip up carry provided you have the right screwdriver.

If the knife does somehow fail you, the grip is designed so that when the blade swings down the choil will hit your finger, not the cutting edge. You'd have to be holding onto the knife on the butt end with only three fingers to fear the cutting edge contacting your hand during lock failure.

Spyderco makes a really fine backlock IMO.
 
Vivi said:
The Manix can be converted to tip up carry provided you have the right screwdriver.

If the knife does somehow fail you, the grip is designed so that when the blade swings down the choil will hit your finger, not the cutting edge. You'd have to be holding onto the knife on the butt end with only three fingers to fear the cutting edge contacting your hand during lock failure.

Spyderco makes a really fine backlock IMO.
Click to expand...

Good point about the choil hitting your finger, I'll look into that, but I think you would need more than a screwdriver to carry the blade tip up. It looks like you need to drill additional holes.
 
I had a Manix about a year ago and from what I remember it was drilled for tip up, tip down, left hand and right hand carry.

Here's a video I made to show you the 3 closing methods I've used. I personally use the one where I close the blade with my index finger in the opening hole, it's very fluid on the knife I used (G10 Cara Cara).

Sorry the video quality is so poor, it's the first time I've tried making one with this camera.

http://video.tinypic.com/player.php?v=6bx9yfa

By the way, if you're still on the fence about backlock Spydercos, buy the knife in this video. It's the Byrd G10 Cara Cara and if you don't like it I'll buy it off of you for what you paid for it.
 
razcob said:
Good point about the choil hitting your finger, I'll look into that, but I think you would need more than a screwdriver to carry the blade tip up. It looks like you need to drill additional holes.
Click to expand...


I carry my manix tip up, and trust me you don't need to drill any additional hole.
 
Their photos are often of production prototypes. Here's a photo of the Manix I had:

63h4i8z.jpg


Other side:

61tehz6.jpg


Looking at those photos makes me miss the knife. :p
 
Vivi said:
By the way, if you're still on the fence about backlock Spydercos, buy the knife in this video. It's the Byrd G10 Cara Cara and if you don't like it I'll buy it off of you for what you paid for it.
Click to expand...

No thanks, I wouldn't want to be responsible for its untimely death when I put it in my safe with the my other knives. My Busse's, Al-Mar's and BM's would slaughter it, but they might welcome a Manix.
 
razcob said:
Why does Spyderco continue to put backlock's on a majority of their knives with the CPM-S30V steel? I would like to buy a Manix with this steel, but the lock concerns me. Tell me how this lock is as safe and convenient as a liner or AXIS lock. If the backlock/lockback was so good, why aren't they as popular with high end manufacturers?
Click to expand...

Back locks have stood the test of time. The fact that there are still manufacturers, both high end and low end, making them tells me that they it's a good, strong and safe design. People like new and novel designs, that doesn't mean that the older designs are any less useful, just that they often become less popular.

razcob said:
Safety:
What about the possibility of releasing the backlock with a rigid reverse grip on the handle? The backlock may be stronger, but only if it isn't accidentally released with the pressure of your grip.
Click to expand...

It seems to me that the only time you're going to have a problem with the lock failing on any knife is if you're using it improperly. I only own a Delica and a Dragonfly so far, but on both of those the David Boye Dent makes it very difficult if not impossible to disengage the lock when squeezing very tightly in any of the 4 main grips. I do get it to partially disengage if I purposely lay a finger directly on the lock and squeeze very hard, but even in a high stress situation I seriously doubt that I would wind up holding the knife in any way that would compromise the lock. Sure it's a possibility, but it's a small enough possibility that it doesn't stop me from buying lock backs.

razcob said:
When you release the lock blade, does the closing pressure increase the closer the blade becomes to full closure. Doesn't this increase your risk of cuts? That ought to add enjoyment to your wilderness trip.

Convenience:
Doesn't it take two hands to close the blade? If the blade and the hand I hold it in becomes contaminated, don't I have to contaminate my other hand to close it.

Tip down may be great for parachuting out of airplanes, but it isn't very convenient to pull a tip down knife from your front pocket while sitting in a car with a safety belt, or squatting down by a river bank to cut a fishing line. You have to dig your fingers in your pocket or lean to one side and straighten out your leg. The lanyard hole is on the wrong side. With a tip up, just a quick tug of an attached "Sebenza" style lanyard and it is out of your pocket.
Click to expand...

I think these have all been pretty well covered. I have nothing to add except that most of the Spydies that don't sport a choil still have a larger "kick" that offers a almost as much protection from having the blade bite your fingers.


razcob said:
Fun:
Balisongs, liner locks, and Axis are all fun to manipulate with one hand. The two hand backlock sucks all the fun away.
Click to expand...

I have tons of fun playing with my Delica. Heck, even the dragonfly is fun to flip around a little bit, especially with a fob attached to the lanyard hole to add a bit of weight so you can easily do the "Spydie drop" with it. (hold onto the hole in the blade with thumb and forefinger and flip the handle open)
 
razcob said:
Why does Spyderco continue to put backlock's on a majority of their knives with the CPM-S30V steel?
Click to expand...
Because they are very reliable, and very secure, and easy to use too.

I would like to buy a Manix with this steel, but the lock concerns me. Tell me how this lock is as safe and convenient as a liner or AXIS lock?
Click to expand...
The Axis-lock is very hard to beat as a locking system...BUT...Benchmade has the patent on that one and, apparently, they aint sharing.

But when it comes to "liner-lock vs lock-back" the lock-back is easily the better locking system.
It's more reliable.
It's truely ambidexterous.
It retains the blade closed much more reliably.
And it's less likely to fail the "spine whack test"....I've never had a lockback fail but I have had quite a few liner-locks fail.

If the backlock/lockback was so good, why aren't they as popular with high end manufacturers?
Click to expand...
I don't know.

Safety:
What about the possibility of releasing the backlock with a rigid reverse grip on the handle? The backlock may be stronger, but only if it isn't accidentally released with the pressure of your grip.
Click to expand...
The Boye dent goes a long way in preventing an accidental release.
Besides, the same can be said of the other locking systems...anything with an easily activated "lock release" can also be accidentally unlocked.

When you release the lock blade, does the closing pressure increase the closer the blade becomes to full closure. Doesn't this increase your risk of cuts? That ought to add enjoyment to your wilderness trip.
Click to expand...
As the various videos have shown you, the lock-back is extremely safe to use.
Folks have been using the lock-back for over forty years.

Convenience:
Doesn't it take two hands to close the blade? If the blade and the hand I hold it in becomes contaminated, don't I have to contaminate my other hand to close it.
Click to expand...
As the videos have shown, NO, it does not take two hands to close a lockback.
BTW, why would anyone want to close a "contaminated" blade before de-contaminating it?
You wouldn't put a "contaminated" knife in your pocket would you???

Tip down may be great for parachuting out of airplanes, but it isn't very convenient to pull a tip down knife from your front pocket while sitting in a car with a safety belt, or squatting down by a river bank to cut a fishing line. You have to dig your fingers in your pocket or lean to one side and straighten out your leg. The lanyard hole is on the wrong side. With a tip up, just a quick tug of an attached "Sebenza" style lanyard and it is out of your pocket.
Click to expand...
I've never had any problems with getting a tip-down knife out of my pocket.
Maybe your pants are too tight?:D

Fun:
Balisongs, liner locks, and Axis are all fun to manipulate with one hand. The two hand backlock sucks all the fun away
Click to expand...
Lock-backs are certainly as "fun" as Axis-locks and liner-locks.
Here's a video I googled showing a guy having fun with various locking systems...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...=73&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1
 
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