Why the backlock?

I suspect backlocks are less popular with "high end manufacturers" because they require more effort to get right than liner locks, frame locks or even the Axis lock. Properly done, they are as strong and reliable as anything out there. In the destructive testing Sal has talked about, the usual failure mode on his backlocks is due to the lock bar pivot pin ripping out of the handle. I rather doubt that can be accomplished without a cheater bar on the handle. It certainly isn't likely in anything approaching normal use, even in what I call normal use.

As far as getting a tip down knife out of your pocket goes, a simple loop of string a little longer than the handle of the knife makes a nice wrist lanyard, and if the end is left protruding from the pocket you can hook it with one finger and pop the knife right out of your pocket no matter how tight your pants are.
 
razcob said:
Perhaps Spyderco isn't making a tip up design anymore. This picture shows both sides of the knife.

http://spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=165
Click to expand...

I wonder if that pic is of the prototype? I did a google image search and there are a bunch of pics out there that do show the knife drilled for tip up or down carry. I did notice something else though. . . There's no Boye dent on the Manix. Seems kinda strange to me.
 
I also prefer a good lockback over a liner-type lock. And my favorite lockbacks are those put out by Spyderco.

Sure you see high-end manufacturers using liner locks; you also see ultra low-end manufacturers making them, too.

I like frame locks, Axis locks, and even some liner locks, too. I've examined some frame locks that slipped right off the blade tang with light pressure, so any type of lock can fail if executed poorly or if there happens to be a lemon.

I don't have any trouble at all opening/closing the Spyderco lockbacks one-handed. I can do it as fast as I can with any liner lock, particularly my faves, the Delica/Endura/Police models. I don't currently own a Manix.
Jim
 
razcob said:
When you release the lock blade, does the closing pressure increase the closer the blade becomes to full closure. Doesn't this increase your risk of cuts? That ought to add enjoyment to your wilderness trip.
Click to expand...

Some yes, some no. My D4/E4 have a pretty high closing pressure and a good closing snap but my Pacific/Atlantic/Tasman Salts have less of snap and almost no pressure increase when closing.

I don't find this the be an issue unless you are being fairly careless. Keep in mind that by your contention the lockback is a two-handed closer, Q: how does one cut oneself with a two-handed closer? A: One doesn't; it's a non-issue. SAKs and AXIS lock knives have the same pressure and snap when closing but there are not a lot of complaints about injuries from it.

Most everyone summed up the points so far but I would also like to echo support for the Mid-lock lock-back. It is secure, ambidextrous, and easy to manipulate under stress when fine motor skills get a little blurry. It's also fun to flip around and open/close one handed.
 
Lets be perfectly honest here and forgive me if I am repeating what another maker or factory person has already said because I have only read the first post and am off to bed. But here is my take on things regarding lockbacks in general. Backlock folders, mid lock folders or front lock folders are a different league of craftsmanship than a liner lock type. In fact they are a different league than all types for many reasons but mostly because we as makers and any company that wants to can make one without having to worry about IP (intellectual property) or something proprietary being used illegally. When made right to where they are both reliable and strong a good lockback can typically outperform other type locks, are very much more ambidextrous in nature and are very strong in all the right ways and not just in some ideal uses. The mid lockback with opening hole, or thumb studs, contrary to some beliefs, is quite easily closed and opened with one hand also.

If anything Spyderco should be praised for the level of craftsmanship they have achieved with their line of reliable strong mid locking folders as should any maker doing a quality lockback. I said this earlier tonight and I guess its worth repeating. I have 35 plus year old lockback folders that have seen heavy use all their life. Can we say Buck 110 and 112? These are no where near retirement but I have ten year old liner and other type locks that have been retired from being worn out, refreshed, worn out again, refreshed one more time and then rather than remake the lock after the company that made them recommened retiring them I did just as they suggested. They are great for a time don't get me wrong ok. I mean not to put down the integral locking folders because they are a high level of expertise and require some very precise engineering to get right but if liner lock and frame lock folders did not exist it is my guess that over half of all folder makers if not 3/4s of them would not even be in business let alone exist and many companies would not be either in all liklihood. At least the ones that rely on them heavily for sales.

This may cause a stink but I think anyone that thinks it over or has experience with both will agree here. As a maker, when you graduate to lockbacks and slipjoint folders (good ones I mean) and have them down well enough to sell them successfully it is my opinion that you have risen to the class of elite craftsmanship that is not for everyone. Ask anyone that has done both which is more difficult. I realize they may not sell as well but I've always felt a good lockback is superior to everything else. Of course this is from before the Axis and Ball lock but that is another story.

The truth of that is though that neither the ball or axis lock has been out long enough to determine if they rate up there with a lockback yet. But also I don't mention it above because it isn't like we as makers can get permission to start making axis locks ourselves or ball locks to my knowledge. When you get old and still have an axis or ball lock that has seen heavy use that you can give to your grandson as a family hand me down that actually still works I will figure then that they have reached or surpassed the same league as a lockback folder has. Until then I'll watch and see.

STR
 
Frankly I think your arguements against the back lock are a pack of crap. Notwithstanding the fact that, AFAIK, Spyerderco never built a "back lock" all it's designs have the lock release roughly midway on the handle.

With the possible exception of the ball, ANY lock can be accidentally released if you grip or manipulate your hand wrong while using it. Frame and liner locks are, if anything, more susceptible to accidental closure than Spyderco's front lock. Unlike liner and framelocks, the blades on front locks do not swing like a garden gate when the lock is released, so I would rate the danger of the blade hitting your fingers is considerably lower. I do gravitate toward the models that include both a front lock and a 50/50 choil, which further reduced the possibility of the sharpened edge hitting ones fingers. I've tried damn hard to make the ones I carry release by squeezing them, have never yet succeeded. That list includes the Native, Calypso Jr., Caly 3, Kiwi, Stretch, both sizes of Schempp Persian, Jester, Kopa, and Atlantic Salt.

I have limited dexterity, yet have no problems closing any of my Spyderco front locks one handed. Will agree that regular backlocks, like the Buck 110, can be difficult or impossible to close one handed, but, as I stated before, Spyderco does not make any of those.

There is also the issue of handedness, front locks work equally well for both right and left handed use. The same cannot be said for liner, frame, or compression locks which are all handed.
 
I've been EDC'n a BM mini grip in D2 for about 9 months, I took it on a 3 month camping trip in BV,CO, and now im buying a spyderco backlock for a number of reasons. But as much as i've like the AXIS lock before, i dont think ill own one again. In CO its very dusty and dirty, and my axis lock would fill up with so much dirt the action was gritty and the whole knife felt cheap and unreliable. and when you dont have running water to clean out the axis, it became an annoyance that a real knife lover just cant handle. So i'm awaitin my CALY3 for my new EDC and camp knife. ill give a report on it as soon as i get to test it in CO.
 
I have thought of this also with the axis locks and other knives with small springs under tension all the time. Those springs are very small and almost fragile looking which has also caused those in extreme cold work environs to wonder if they would suffer from that temp drop over time. I think the jury is still out on that personally.

In defense of the axis design though, even if both springs broke in that lock it would still be very possible to secure the blade open by jamming a stout stick of hardwood in behind the bar or even a small rock or debris as you pointed out to effectively keep the blade opened for most uses in a pinch I think.

STR
 
STR said:
Lets be perfectly honest here and forgive me if I am repeating what another maker or factory person has already said because I have only read the first post and am off to bed. But here is my take on things regarding lockbacks in general. Backlock folders, mid lock folders or front lock folders are a different league of craftsmanship than a liner lock type. In fact they are a different league than all types for many reasons but mostly because we as makers and any company that wants to can make one without having to worry about IP (intellectual property) or something proprietary being used illegally. When made right to where they are both reliable and strong a good lockback can typically outperform other type locks, are very much more ambidextrous in nature and are very strong in all the right ways and not just in some ideal uses. The mid lockback with opening hole, or thumb studs, contrary to some beliefs, is quite easily closed and opened with one hand also.

If anything Spyderco should be praised for the level of craftsmanship they have achieved with their line of reliable strong mid locking folders as should any maker doing a quality lockback. I said this earlier tonight and I guess its worth repeating. I have 35 plus year old lockback folders that have seen heavy use all their life. Can we say Buck 110 and 112? These are no where near retirement but I have ten year old liner and other type locks that have been retired from being worn out, refreshed, worn out again, refreshed one more time and then rather than remake the lock after the company that made them recommened retiring them I did just as they suggested. They are great for a time don't get me wrong ok. I mean not to put down the integral locking folders because they are a high level of expertise and require some very precise engineering to get right but if liner lock and frame lock folders did not exist it is my guess that over half of all folder makers if not 3/4s of them would not even be in business let alone exist and many companies would not be either in all liklihood. At least the ones that rely on them heavily for sales.

This may cause a stink but I think anyone that thinks it over or has experience with both will agree here. As a maker, when you graduate to lockbacks and slipjoint folders (good ones I mean) and have them down well enough to sell them successfully it is my opinion that you have risen to the class of elite craftsmanship that is not for everyone. Ask anyone that has done both which is more difficult. I realize they may not sell as well but I've always felt a good lockback is superior to everything else. Of course this is from before the Axis and Ball lock but that is another story.

The truth of that is though that neither the ball or axis lock has been out long enough to determine if they rate up there with a lockback yet. But also I don't mention it above because it isn't like we as makers can get permission to start making axis locks ourselves or ball locks to my knowledge. When you get old and still have an axis or ball lock that has seen heavy use that you can give to your grandson as a family hand me down that actually still works I will figure then that they have reached or surpassed the same league as a lockback folder has. Until then I'll watch and see.

STR
Click to expand...
:thumbup:There's a certain security and comfort a good lock back gives me that no other type of lock gives me. The only exception in security I've felt is the ball bearing lock.
 
I have a couple of Spydie lockbacks.
The BFC Native that Sal made for us and an old Harpy.

Both of these knives have been heavily used and the lockup is still quite solid with little or any wobble or blade play. I wish I could say the same for some liner-locks from various makers that have not seen as much use as these two knives. ;).

I consider a folder lock like a firearm safety. It is there, but I do not count on it, so I always try to cut blade edge first. :D.

Excellent post STR.
 
I have the BM Axis lock, SOG arc-lock, liner locks, compression locks, ball-bearing locks and most of all, Spyderco back locks. Nowadays I only buy buy Spydercos with back locks. Works just great for me and i have never had an accidental release.
 
I really do not know what all the fuss on BM axis locks. Yeah they open fast, BUT Spyderco's mid/back(Spyderco does not really use "back locks") can be opened just as fast, with the exception of my Caly 3(it has a very strong tension bar). Just press the lock down and swing your hand in the same action as you do with axis locks. This can be done with the Mini and regular Manix. It also does not require a loose pivot.

When you pull the axis lock pin back you release the pressure, therefore allowing the blade to swing forword. Compression locks, "most" Spyderco mid locks can do the same thing.

Press the lock(release the pressure) and swing your hand...................Done. The blade is locked and ready to go. Why all the fuss? They close just as easy, release the pressure of the lock, swing hand................and its closed.

Now whats all the fuss about? :confused:

On another note "Pjrocco" on the Spyderco forum made this little video, proving that Spyderco "backlocks" are no fun. :D

Don't click me to see the video :p
 
Rather than wondering, why not buy one and then decide. It won't be hard to sell on the secondary market if it's not to your liking. The only problem might be the "untimely" death of the other knives you mentioned once they're in the company of a real knife.....:D
 
So-Lo said:
:confused: Try a well made liner lock. :thumbup:

A well made liner lock will take a hell of a beating before it will wear out. Just ask anyone with a old Mili. ;)
Click to expand...


I know the milli is a great liner and also some top end products, but for me...I don't like a liner that much. Different strokes for different folks :)
 
Andre said:
I have the BM Axis lock, SOG arc-lock, liner locks, compression locks, ball-bearing locks and most of all, Spyderco back locks. Nowadays I only buy buy Spydercos with back locks. Works just great for me and i have never had an accidental release.
Click to expand...

@ Andre and Marthinus: howzit! :D :thumbup:
 
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