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Why the dislike for D2 bushcraft knives? (Also: Enzo Trapper project/review pg.2)
- Thread starter killa_concept
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Ebbtide
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I'll second that. Except for the Wilderness... don't have one of those
This calls for a photo!
You're gonna love it
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Glad to hear your guy's comments on D2 - hopefully Enzos HT is comparable to Doziers...
I decided to go ahead and polish up the Scandi last night and yowza! I wouldn't say D2 is more difficult to sharpen - but it certainly is more time consuming if that's what everyone meant. Luckily, I find sharpening quite therapeutic, so it isn't turning me off on D2.
The difference between D2 @ 60-61 HRC and 1095 @ 57-58 is a lot more than I thought it would be though. Admittedly, I think I could have sped up the time considerably if I started on something higher than a 1200grit waterstone to get rid of the grind lines, but that's in retrospect. I can see why you guys mentioned having to get into diamond sharpening
The cocobolo slabs arrived today, so the knife should be coming together soon
I decided to go ahead and polish up the Scandi last night and yowza! I wouldn't say D2 is more difficult to sharpen - but it certainly is more time consuming if that's what everyone meant. Luckily, I find sharpening quite therapeutic, so it isn't turning me off on D2.
The difference between D2 @ 60-61 HRC and 1095 @ 57-58 is a lot more than I thought it would be though. Admittedly, I think I could have sped up the time considerably if I started on something higher than a 1200grit waterstone to get rid of the grind lines, but that's in retrospect. I can see why you guys mentioned having to get into diamond sharpening
The cocobolo slabs arrived today, so the knife should be coming together soon
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The OP mentioned that stainless steel isn't a good option for an outdoor knife, why is this? For a smallish knife I would've thought stainless would be perfectly acceptable.
About the zero scandi grind Enzo trapper in D2.
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39390&page=2
I've been trying to find a review which Finnman did on his knife, I think I saw it on bushcraftusa?
It seems the general consensus is that putting a secondary bevel on it helps stop micro chips etc...
About the zero scandi grind Enzo trapper in D2.
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39390&page=2
I've been trying to find a review which Finnman did on his knife, I think I saw it on bushcraftusa?
It seems the general consensus is that putting a secondary bevel on it helps stop micro chips etc...
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Does anyone know the RC of Dozier D2?
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Doesn't matter what kind of HT it has, D2 is still D2. Not the "optimal" steel for a scandi ground blade, but the vast majority of knives aren't of the optimal steel for their type, either. It won't like that zero ground edge if the use gets rough, as it's a coarsely grained steel with low ductility, and fragile at the edge compared to something tougher, so it may need a steeper microbevel. On the other hand it may do just fine in normal use. I'd use it, enjoy it, and give the edge some attention if necessary, but I wouldn't sit around worrying over it. Only one way to find out if it's going to work for you...and if it doesn't, you learned something to help with future choices.
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Well all this talk about chipping has me slightly concerned... Obviously, the only way to find out if it will be an issue is to get some use out of the knife which I plan to do as soon as I put it together. I've read around and found that the edge angle on these Enzos is about 10 degrees per side, which to me, seems pretty low for a scandi regardless of whether it's O1 or D2. I'd prefer about a 12.5-15.
Anyways, I've decided to make my cocobolo scales removable just in case I do run into chipping issues and need to return the blade or something. We'll see how it goes :thumbup:
Anyways, I've decided to make my cocobolo scales removable just in case I do run into chipping issues and need to return the blade or something. We'll see how it goes :thumbup:
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Here's my take on the D2.
I like it in a scandi.
BUT-
This is just my opinion but if you draw out the edge really thin in a scandi it will chip more.
I had a Swamp Oak from Charley May I had a lot of trouble with chipping on till I realized I was sharpening it wrong.
I have a Skifa from him I've had no problems chipping on.
Don't try to polish the bevel.
First, try to keep it pretty sharp.
Second when you do sharpen it use a fine diamond hone that will give it some micro serrations or I like to use a flat surface and a strip of either 400 or 600 grit wet dry sandpaper, and don't strop it.
I find that as long as I don't wait forever a few passes on the 600 grit, keepinng the bevel very flat and NO stropping works great. I can sharpen a D2 as easy as an 01 or 3v that way.
I like the cutting of the D2 and especially the stain resistance.
Now I find the 01 and the 3v you CAN polish. 3V for me is MUCH harder to sharpen than D2 but IMO the ultimate steel for scandi grind non chipping. The 01 is more prone to damage but much easier to repair.
PS: The finer you strop something like an 01 out with the bevel flat you can get the edge so thin that if you don't break it off you will fold it over. You can hold it up to the light and see it and then put it on a strop and pretty much make it straight again. After I have sharpened it flat I like to take a strop with compound and raise the blade and make like a couple strokes on each side at a higher angle. I think this keeps the scandi grind but knocks off that sort of wire edge that can tear off. That's not limited to Scandis a fine convex can do the same thing.
I like it in a scandi.
BUT-
This is just my opinion but if you draw out the edge really thin in a scandi it will chip more.
I had a Swamp Oak from Charley May I had a lot of trouble with chipping on till I realized I was sharpening it wrong.
I have a Skifa from him I've had no problems chipping on.
Don't try to polish the bevel.
First, try to keep it pretty sharp.
Second when you do sharpen it use a fine diamond hone that will give it some micro serrations or I like to use a flat surface and a strip of either 400 or 600 grit wet dry sandpaper, and don't strop it.
I find that as long as I don't wait forever a few passes on the 600 grit, keepinng the bevel very flat and NO stropping works great. I can sharpen a D2 as easy as an 01 or 3v that way.
I like the cutting of the D2 and especially the stain resistance.
Now I find the 01 and the 3v you CAN polish. 3V for me is MUCH harder to sharpen than D2 but IMO the ultimate steel for scandi grind non chipping. The 01 is more prone to damage but much easier to repair.
PS: The finer you strop something like an 01 out with the bevel flat you can get the edge so thin that if you don't break it off you will fold it over. You can hold it up to the light and see it and then put it on a strop and pretty much make it straight again. After I have sharpened it flat I like to take a strop with compound and raise the blade and make like a couple strokes on each side at a higher angle. I think this keeps the scandi grind but knocks off that sort of wire edge that can tear off. That's not limited to Scandis a fine convex can do the same thing.
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Are you saying keep it at 600grit for ease of sharpening or because the steel's fairly large carbides lends itself better to a toothier edge? These reasons would make sense to me. But are you also suggesting polished edges on d2s can contribute to microchipping? I'm not too sure that would make as much sense...
As for not stropping, I can see how that would be a concern if you're afraid that it's simply realigning the bur/wire edge which will break off under use. It's not so much an issue with polished edges, but a wire edge is a lot more common when using a fairly coarse grit like 600. I had similar issues with my chef knife, which I keep at 600 as I find that the perfect edge for general purpose kitchen knives (fillet / sushi knives I polish up to 6000). Here's what I did to remedy the problem which you might want to give a shot: when you're finished sharpening the knife up, take a nice hardwood block (I use the back of a pretty beefy breadboard) and slice at it numerous times - head on, and 45 degrees to either side. This should knock off the wire edge. Then go back to your sharpening stone and do a couple light alternating passes - maybe 5 each side. Slice at the block again then do a few more alternating passes on the stone even lighter than before (barely grazing the surface). At this point, the bur should be pretty much gone but the edge might be slightly misaligned, so stropping will help whilst not giving you a wire edge :thumbup:
Also, I was up most of last night making the scales for my Enzo Trapper - more on that in a bit
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Well, I ordered a DMT coarse/fine 6x2 diamond benchstone last night . I've been meaning to get one for awhile, but the experience with my Enzo finally made me place the order. I could have sped the sharpening along by using my fine/coarse whetstone, but it had gotten fairly concaved and I didn't feel like flattening it.
Anyways, as I said in my previous post, here's an update on the knife. I was up the whole night making the scales. I have a bad habit of not being able to put down a project once I start it:
The slabs I picked up first of all:
The tools I used are in the background. 75% of the carving and work was done with the Mora. I simply did the basic shaping onto the blocks, used double sided tape to attach them onto the knife then continued the shaping:
Here it is with the final shaping done, sanded with a bit of 150grit, and with a small bit of mineral oil to get a basic idea of what the color/grain would look like. Still needs the red liners, some final sanding and of course the screw holes drilled. Like I said, I wanted to keep these scales removable just in case.
Turned out nothing like what the slabs I bought looked like. Problem with most of the cocobolo slabs shown on e-pray and other sites is that they're generally coated or sealed in some manner to make them look bright red. I actually like it this way more. A lot more contrasting browns/reds/purples and such... especially like the very vivid redish-violet lines that really pop against the light orange and brown that makes up the majority of the scales. I'll eventually finish it with a few coats of Tru-Oil once all the work is complete and I'm sure it'll make it pop a bit more... for now though, I think it's coming along nicely
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I agree...I think it's looking very nice. :thumbup:
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So here's the final product as far as the knife is concerned:
I added red spacers and the slabs are removable (though I doubt I'll be wanting to switch to O1 since I'm really loving this D2).
The wood was polished up to 400grit then treated with multiple coats of Tru-Oil. The knife itself has been sharpened up to 6000grit then stropped on a .3micron chrom oxide loaded leather belt to give it a polished and shaving sharp edge.
So now for a bit of a review/recap:
I don't quite think I've stated my original reason for getting this knife specifically, so I'll say it here: I found that while I owned several good quality knives, they were mostly flat/saber ground or convexed. Whenever I found myself wanting to do woodcarving or other bushcraft tasks, I found myself always ignoring my more expensive blades and reaching for my mora because I just like the scandi grind more.
So as I already said, I decided on D2 because I found myself using my knives a lot in the kitchen and knives with very low corrosion resistance (like 1095, O1, etc) really get eaten up when working with acidic foods - not to the point of destroying a working edge, but certainly enough to remove its shaving capabilities after 10-15min of exposure to food prep. The enzo in D2 does not suffer from any such problem, and doesn't even form a patina after extensive kitchen use.
I've also used it for carving on multiple occasions now and didn't experience any chipping (as people said I might due to it being zero scandi ground to 10 degrees a side). Regardless, I decided to add a very tiny microbevel (~17 degrees a side) with the 6000grit waterstone (you can sort see it in the first picture above) after finding out that very few true scandis are actually zero-ground (upon closer inspection, brand new moras even have tiny microbevels as well!). I tried making some feather sticks and doing some other carving after the addition of the microbevel and noticed absolutely zero difference in performance. The edge is probably much tougher and less prone to chipping/rolling now though.
Admittedly, I haven't tried batoning with my Trapper. Ever since I got into kukris and (more recently) axes, my requirement that a good knife needs to be able to baton has gone down immensely. Of course I still like my knives to be full-tang and of sturdy construction just in case, which this knife is. I'm sure I'll try batoning with it sooner or later just to know it can handle it, but I've yet to encounter a realistic need to do it as I seem to always have an axe along with me...
The only potentially negative thing I'll say about the knife is that the steel is freaking HARD! I didn't realize that 60-61HRC was so much harder than the 57-58HRC I'm typically used to. It's not necessarily more difficult to sharpen, but it's definitely more time consuming if you don't have diamond sharpeners (I finally ordered my first specifically because of this knife - a 6" coarse/fine diasharp benchstone). The bright side is of course that it holds an edge like you wouldn't believe! I've been using this knife for about a month now - doing everything from carving up seasoned oak to dicing up a whole pineapple - and without having touched it up since the original sharpening session, the thing can still shave!
I still have to make a sheath and matching firesteel for the knife, but all-in-all, I'm very pleased with this blade. No longer do I feel guilty for owning a number of good blades but opting for a cheapie $15 mora just because I prefer scandis
I added red spacers and the slabs are removable (though I doubt I'll be wanting to switch to O1 since I'm really loving this D2).
The wood was polished up to 400grit then treated with multiple coats of Tru-Oil. The knife itself has been sharpened up to 6000grit then stropped on a .3micron chrom oxide loaded leather belt to give it a polished and shaving sharp edge.
So now for a bit of a review/recap:
I don't quite think I've stated my original reason for getting this knife specifically, so I'll say it here: I found that while I owned several good quality knives, they were mostly flat/saber ground or convexed. Whenever I found myself wanting to do woodcarving or other bushcraft tasks, I found myself always ignoring my more expensive blades and reaching for my mora because I just like the scandi grind more.
So as I already said, I decided on D2 because I found myself using my knives a lot in the kitchen and knives with very low corrosion resistance (like 1095, O1, etc) really get eaten up when working with acidic foods - not to the point of destroying a working edge, but certainly enough to remove its shaving capabilities after 10-15min of exposure to food prep. The enzo in D2 does not suffer from any such problem, and doesn't even form a patina after extensive kitchen use.
I've also used it for carving on multiple occasions now and didn't experience any chipping (as people said I might due to it being zero scandi ground to 10 degrees a side). Regardless, I decided to add a very tiny microbevel (~17 degrees a side) with the 6000grit waterstone (you can sort see it in the first picture above) after finding out that very few true scandis are actually zero-ground (upon closer inspection, brand new moras even have tiny microbevels as well!). I tried making some feather sticks and doing some other carving after the addition of the microbevel and noticed absolutely zero difference in performance. The edge is probably much tougher and less prone to chipping/rolling now though.
Admittedly, I haven't tried batoning with my Trapper. Ever since I got into kukris and (more recently) axes, my requirement that a good knife needs to be able to baton has gone down immensely. Of course I still like my knives to be full-tang and of sturdy construction just in case, which this knife is. I'm sure I'll try batoning with it sooner or later just to know it can handle it, but I've yet to encounter a realistic need to do it as I seem to always have an axe along with me...
The only potentially negative thing I'll say about the knife is that the steel is freaking HARD! I didn't realize that 60-61HRC was so much harder than the 57-58HRC I'm typically used to. It's not necessarily more difficult to sharpen, but it's definitely more time consuming if you don't have diamond sharpeners (I finally ordered my first specifically because of this knife - a 6" coarse/fine diasharp benchstone). The bright side is of course that it holds an edge like you wouldn't believe! I've been using this knife for about a month now - doing everything from carving up seasoned oak to dicing up a whole pineapple - and without having touched it up since the original sharpening session, the thing can still shave!
I still have to make a sheath and matching firesteel for the knife, but all-in-all, I'm very pleased with this blade. No longer do I feel guilty for owning a number of good blades but opting for a cheapie $15 mora just because I prefer scandis
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