Why the Low Prices in the Knifemakers For Sale Forum?

redsquid2

redsquid2

Rockabilly Interim Pardon Viscount
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Messages
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I mostly just browse the fixed blades, rather than the folders.

When browsing, I like to estimate what a knife will bring, before "peeking" at the asking price.

For example, I was recently browsing, and saw an amazing damascus hunter. It was more like a work of art. Before I looked at the asking price, my brain assessed the work that went into it, the overall look of it, the fit and finish, and the maker's reputation. My brain said $600-700. Then I saw the asking price: $350. :-O

I think I know what I am looking at, then I get surprised by a price like this.

I see knives that are made on more of an assembly line setup, don't have any fancy features like multiple spacers, proprietary damascus, or filework, and yet they bring $250-350 on a retail Web site.

So questions:

What are the reasons for a maker going so low? Maybe there is something I don't know? Maybe my estimates are way off?
 
Maybe it's the economy. People are not as likely to buy art, and some of these knives are definitely artistic.
 
I also think the same.

It kind of bandwagon, some people just don't care for a thing they never heard of and will only pay for the stuff from the well known production/maker.
 
Are you looking at the name of the maker before you make your estimate?

Because, whether one likes to admit it or not, at those prices who made the knife is a factor, and not just the craftmanship and materials of that individual knife.
 
redsquid2 said:
. . .
What are the reasons for a maker going so low? Maybe there is something I don't know? Maybe my estimates are way off?
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One reason may be the makers who are only trying to cover material costs and not earn a living wage.
 
As well, there are makers whose lives are supported entirely by the income generated from their knife sales - like ME!! And a long list of others on this forum and around the world.
And then there are makers who make and sell knives who have retirement income, second income from a wife or other family member, makers who have other full time jobs, etc., and they price their knives not based on "need" or true value, but simply to get some return on their efforts.
I've seen guys right here on this forum sell knives for $200.00 that included a sheath - a very NICE sheath - that would be worth $100.00+ without the knife!
So they're selling the knife for 100 bucks. Which includes time, materials, etc., and in the big scheme of things, they're actually losing money on the knife sale.
When you're paying ALL of your expenses and overhead, shop, housing, food, clothing, all livelihood, etc., from the PROFITS of your knife sales, I can assure you the sale price will be far more realistic regarding true value of the knife.

leozinho said:
Are you looking at the name of the maker before you make your estimate?
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Or they don't really have a choice if they want to sell anything.There are too many knife makers today. Prices for the typical fixed blade for sale on here is a fraction of what it would have been at say the Guild show in 1991 in Orlando if you account for inflation and it is easier to find a better quality knife today.
fod said:
One reason may be the makers who are only trying to cover material costs and not earn a living wage.
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I may disagree a bit on the "too many knife makers today" and re-phrase that as being too few knife buyers. Promote and educate more people/buyers and the landscape will change.
Bailey Bradshaw told me one time to walk down a busy city street and ask random people if they knew where I might buy a custom knife.
No one would even know what I was talking about.
The major population, as a whole, doesn't even know we exist.

jdm61 said:
Or they don't really have a choice if they want to sell anything.There are too many knife makers today. Prices for the typical fixed blade for sale on here is a fraction of what it would have been at say the Guild show in 1991 in Orlando if you account for inflation and it is easier to find a better quality knife today.
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I think there are too many folks(hobbyists, part-time and full-time makers) who are willing to sell knives for nothing more than cost of materials(if even for that). They don't realize how much it hurts the industry. It is a tough economy and I completely understand the need to put food on the table... but sadly, they are digging the hole deeper by cheapening the value of the craft.
 
Around here we call that the Dutch mentality, buy at the lowest price possible, sell for the highest price possible, so if the knife maker isn't asking a ridiculous price then he aint Dutch ;0)
 
It's called "the race to the bottom". It happens when the cost of entry is low and supply exceeds demand. It's one of the main reasons makers don't generally make a living commensurate with their skill.
 
I don't have any statistics, but to me it seems a stretch to say that we can fundamentally shift the market place by making people aware that they can spend a LOT more to get custom knives, when they are currently satisfied by the factory models they buy at Bed, Bath and Beyond or Sur La Table. Sure, there are undoubtedly some who, if made aware of superior quality, would switch to custom knives. But there's another factor to consider... how do they select from the vast (and growing) number of custom makers? What is the comparison point? how many $700 knives must they buy to know the one they bought is the one they want (and not just some overpriced kit knife)?

Yes, I believe it is possible to shift the market... but the shift would likely be very difficult and might require something of the makers as well.
 
For many it is competition and for most it is the fact they need it to sell and usually with in a week. There are only so many of us on the forum and we all only have so much money and when there are tons of knife makers making knives and selling them the competition grows and we can only afford so many. Many of the knives on the knife maker forums have a lot of work put into them and are worth more than what they are charged. This can be nice for the consumer and as long as the maker is making some money. It also depends on whether the maker is a full time maker or hobbyist. When it comes to fixed blades I love some of the production knives out there, but I am a big fan of custom/handmade. With prices that many of the handmade knives come out at, I really find a hard excuse to buy a production knife when I could get a custom knife with a lot of character and I know the money is going to one guy.
 
If you have 100$ in material, and 100$ in labor, your shop is your garage, and you're the only labor, 350$ is a reasonable retail price. If simple custom stock removal knives all sold immediately and had a 200-300% markup, everyone would do it. A lot of custom makers at guild shows forge their own damascus - most of the damascus on the for sale forum is sourced. There are a lot of factors that play into it.

I'm sure many of the Makers selling in the for sale area could sell their knives for more, but not in this venue, and not nearly as many - and this venue also cuts out the dealer's markup. Dealers aren't going to pay $600 for a knife you think is worth $600, and if a knifemaker that doesn't have a huge reputation wants to sell a lot of knives, they either need a dealer or need to compete with semi- customs and the wider market.

You'll notice a lot of knives sit when they charge more, but at the right price the makers on the for sale forum can sell a knife every day. If the margins aren't good enough for them, they certainly don't have to make knives. A lot of makers do not control their overhead to compete with the wider market, and then there are a lot of makers that put in several times more labor hours as the makers that sale on the fixed blade forum (inlays, engraving, scrimshaw, etc.). The makers on the fixed blade forum usually buy their materials and make a basic knife through stock removal.

When makers set up at shows they can raise their prices to fall in line with the dealers and other makers that are present. For a small home business with a single employee and no outlet or contract, a maker can do better making a blade every day and selling it on the fixed blade forum than they could shipping one to a dealer every day. Buyers get a better deal, and it has been working great lately with 5-10 makers putting up multiple pieces for week, each one better than the last.
 
I think you have to look at the effect of better factory knives, when a lot of junk was coming from China I think it helped us, you needed a custom to get a good knife. Right now there are a number of very good factory knives and the prices are low. My neighbors used to buy mine after a disappointment with their Chineses import but now they have taken some factory knives hunting and were pleased. Now they buy mine and put them in the gun safe!!
 
Do I consider the maker when making the estimate? Good question. I think sometimes I don't. But sometimes I do, and I still get surprised by a very low price.

Marchand, as far as hobbyists hurting the industry, I hope that's not what I am doing. I am a hobbyist, but I don't want to hurt the industry. I honestly represent my work in words and pictures, including who does my heat treat.

A Justice: good point about the dealer markups, and the situation at the knife shows.
 
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Most of the knives I see for sale are bargains; some of them are steals. I do notice that as their ability and popularity progress the price seems to follow. I think a lot get tired of working hard for very little return and drop out of the business. YMMV
 
redsquid2 said:
Do I consider the maker when making the estimate? Good question. I think sometimes I don't. But sometimes I do, and I still get surprised by a very low price.

Marchand, as far as hobbyists hurting the industry, I hope that's not what I am doing. I am a hobbyist, but I don't want to hurt the industry. I honestly represent my work in words and pictures, including who does my heat treat.
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That's not what I'm talking about, bud... the more makers, the merrier. It is the confusion it creates when someone who is happy just covering costs to fuel his hobby VASTLY undercuts full-time makers trying to make a living. I don't think it is done with malicious intent but the result is the same. Many buyers don't make the distinction between the hobbyist and a career maker. They just see the work, the price and make a decision... why wouldn't they? You will find this happens in most industries to some extent but particularly in the arts and trades.

Keep on making brother, just don't sell yourself short!:thumbup:
 
Rick Marchand said:
I think there are too many folks(hobbyists, part-time and full-time makers) who are willing to sell knives for nothing more than cost of materials(if even for that). They don't realize how much it hurts the industry. It is a tough economy and I completely understand the need to put food on the table... but sadly, they are digging the hole deeper by cheapening the value of the craft.
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Wow,just wow...hobbyist's & part time makers are hurting the industry?
Shame on them for having a hobby & selling cutting tools for a reasonable price.
 
mykel m said:
Wow,just wow...hobbyist's & part time makers are hurting the industry?
Shame on them for having a hobby & selling cutting tools for a reasonable price.
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Many would argue that selling at a loss or zero gain and thereby undercutting prices is not "reasonable".
 
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