Why the Low Prices in the Knifemakers For Sale Forum?

I got a nasty-no-no from another blacksmith once..Everyone knows that my thing is hawks ,always has been. Im a blacksmith at heart. Everyone also knows that Im free and loud with my techniques and information. I had to learn the majority of what I know through trial and error. Theres a lot of wasted steel and butt ugly tomahawk heads in the bottom of the creek in front of my shop,LOL. I always thought that if I can help someone avoid all the crap I went through learning it then that's great. Apparently slitting a eye in a bar of steel and flaring out one end was HIS thing and everyone else shouldn't be asking how to do it let alone telling them how to do it..
Just a side note to explain just how cut throat this business can be at times..I suppose that's why it was never "business" to me..
 
Interesting ideas there.
Another thing to add is that a lot of the guys you're talking about will buy a name brand over an unknown maker just because it's a "Benchmade" or a "Kershaw" and everyone knows that's a tough, well thought out knife.
Name recognition may not be everything, but it's huge to the guys you're talking about- I'm guessing that there's a whole class of customers who will buy a Sebenza, which is technically a very good knife, who won't look seriously at a similarly priced one of a kind, simply because of name recognition.
The simple fact is that very few of the millions of people who like knives have ever held a custom in their hands that wasn't some wild thing with a brass bolster and half an antler for a handle, and they don't carry those in the woods.
Yeah, if I could make something similar to a Benchmade for the same price with a nice sheath, I'd be able to sell a thousand right here in my town, it would snowball.

sdemars said:
First thing I should say, "I have never made a knife" I have bought a lot of knives in my 60+ years.
I have Randall combat style knives I bought from Randall for as little as $77.00. Randall Knives currently has a 4 YEAR waiting list. Over 20 people that happen to live in Orlando, FL work for Randall making knives 5 to 6 days a week.

My take on why custom hand made knives do not sell quickly today is simple, almost all the makers make or try to make beautiful knives.

The average guy is not going to pay $350.00+ for a knife that he will "actually use".

Most young guys today that know what a knife is and has a use for it are either a hunter, a cop or a soldier. The rest only see it as a digital image in a computer game.

A cop and a soldier see zero value in beautiful. His goal is to see how much abuse a knife can take.

So now we have hunters & collectors left for a market place for beautiful knives. Collectors want a known maker's name on a blade so that he can justify his spending as an investment to self and wife.

Now we have the hunter left. I live in Louisiana and I can assure you the average hunter will not carry and use a $350.00 knife unless he is a pretty well off soul that $350.00 is not a big deal.

This is my take & I may be really way off base . . . I watched my brother make beautiful custom knives for years in the late 60's & 70's. I was his main customer because no one would pay more than $75.00 for any knife locally.

If you have the skill and want to make beautiful knives that will make people ooh & aah that is great, but if you want to SELL knives today & you are a new maker, you need to be making utility & combat knives that are butt ugly and capable of penetrating a 55 gallon steel drum. For some reason the penetration of a steel drum seems to be the ultimate measure of how tough a knife is.

How I feel I know this, I STILL BUY KNIVES, the butt ugly ones ! ! !
Steve
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Here is an interesting scenario: A knife maker has a table at a show and has twenty five one of a kind knives for sale and two or three that are labeled "not for sale" People will ask why they are not for sale and the maker says he wants to keep them for his collection. The prospective customer says " that's too bad because I would buy that one." Then the knife maker says " Well I would probably sell it but I didn't many people would pay $XXX for it" and the buyer says "I would" and the seller says " Ok if you really want it I will sell it right now" . OR the knife maker says I can make a similar one for you and let you pick out the wood and pins and decide what the bolsters are to made of and so on. for $xxx.....it will be special. The knife maker I am talking about has sold dozens of knives that were "not for sale" All of us have similar "human natures" and the "not for sale" really works on our psychology. Also letting the buyer look at a nice knife and think of participating in the creation in some way works on the imagination and triggers some perceived need for something special. Just my opinion...but with examples of real results at top dollar.
 
Part of the reason I am hesitant to buy from a one-off custom knifemaker is because I really have no way to know whether the knifemaker is any good or that my knife will be what he said it will be. I could wind up stuck for several hundred $. I know if I buy a Svord it's probably going to be at least close to what I think it's going to be. If the knives weren't one-offs then I could go by reviews of previous customers.

The problem is I know Bose makes junk speakers. I know Creative makes crappy sound cards. Little Caesar's pizza sucks, but at least it's cheap and I know what I'm getting. Coca-Cola really is pretty good! Reed's Extra ginger ale is way better, but it's a little more expensive, and who is Reed again?

I don't want to have to study the knife market for way too much time to figure out who makes a quality product. I personally do not believe I will ultimately get my bang for the buck. The time spent researching the details costs me too much in the long run.

I'm probably a prime customer for a custom knifemaker. My income is what it is. I really like knives. What I don't like is that I have to spend way too much time deciding on who would do a good job. If there was a knifemaker's guild that internally regulated the quality of a product and could cooperate enough to build talent within the field, I would be interested in buying from an organization like that. For example, anyone who wanted to enter the guild would have to produce a certain knife that met certain expectations. That would make me a lot more comfortable in purchasing a custom knife.

Independence is great and I support anyone who experiments with their creativity and skills. The problem is I don't have a yardstick by which to measure the deliverables.
 
Peak_Oil said:
Part of the reason I am hesitant to buy from a one-off custom knifemaker is because I really have no way to know whether the knifemaker is any good or that my knife will be what he said it will be. I could wind up stuck for several hundred $. I know if I buy a Svord it's probably going to be at least close to what I think it's going to be. If the knives weren't one-offs then I could go by reviews of previous customers.

The problem is I know Bose makes junk speakers. I know Creative makes crappy sound cards. Little Caesar's pizza sucks, but at least it's cheap and I know what I'm getting. Coca-Cola really is pretty good! Reed's Extra ginger ale is way better, but it's a little more expensive, and who is Reed again?

I don't want to have to study the knife market for way too much time to figure out who makes a quality product. I personally do not believe I will ultimately get my bang for the buck. The time spent researching the details costs me too much in the long run.

I'm probably a prime customer for a custom knifemaker. My income is what it is. I really like knives. What I don't like is that I have to spend way too much time deciding on who would do a good job. If there was a knifemaker's guild that internally regulated the quality of a product and could cooperate enough to build talent within the field, I would be interested in buying from an organization like that. For example, anyone who wanted to enter the guild would have to produce a certain knife that met certain expectations. That would make me a lot more comfortable in purchasing a custom knife.

Independence is great and I support anyone who experiments with their creativity and skills. The problem is I don't have a yardstick by which to measure the deliverables.
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The American Bladesmith Society does that.
 
Peak_Oil said:
Part of the reason I am hesitant to buy from a one-off custom knifemaker is because I really have no way to know whether the knifemaker is any good or that my knife will be what he said it will be.
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As a consumer, I get where you are coming from. The real flaw in your argument, however, is the fallacy of comparing stock consumer goods with crafts/arts/artisan-made objects.

Sure, it's nice to be able to read Consumer Reports and get a sense for how well the latest model of refrigerators stack up before shelling out thousands on one. But as you noted, what makes those comparisons meaningful is the fact that the manufacturers make hundreds of thousands of them and there are a lot of folks whose opinions can be polled. If you wanted a custom made fridge for your designer kitchen in your multi-million dollar home, how much use is that Consumer Reports article? None at all.

Now let's say you are in the market for some artwork. What's your source there? Consumer Reports doesn't grade artists (or even artisans). If you go to a lot of galleries and museums you might have a sense for what's good... but gosh, that takes time. And yes, having been dragged through many a museum exhibit by my art loving wife, I can tell you it isn't all that much fun to get cultured. But if I was seriously interested in plunking down money for art, I would definitely not expect to be spoon fed the information about what to buy.

In short, you can't think of custom knives as a pure commodity and then suggest that you're "probably a prime customer". Income alone doesn't make you a "prime customer". Your knowledge of the craft makes you a prime customer, and without that the only thing that puts you in that prime spot is your willingness to buy what you like. The fact that you insist on thinking of custom work as commodities makes you a sub-prime customer.
 
LARRYZ10 said:
Here is an interesting scenario: A knife maker has a table at a show and has twenty five one of a kind knives for sale and two or three that are labeled "not for sale" People will ask why they are not for sale and the maker says he wants to keep them for his collection. The prospective customer says " that's too bad because I would buy that one." Then the knife maker says " Well I would probably sell it but I didn't many people would pay $XXX for it" and the buyer says "I would" and the seller says " Ok if you really want it I will sell it right now" . OR the knife maker says I can make a similar one for you and let you pick out the wood and pins and decide what the bolsters are to made of and so on. for $xxx.....it will be special. The knife maker I am talking about has sold dozens of knives that were "not for sale" All of us have similar "human natures" and the "not for sale" really works on our psychology. Also letting the buyer look at a nice knife and think of participating in the creation in some way works on the imagination and triggers some perceived need for something special. Just my opinion...but with examples of real results at top dollar.
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There are a few knives that upon final inspection, don't make the grade. If the issue isn't fixable, the knife either becomes a destruction test or my own personal user. I find it funny that folks seem to WANT those knives. I will never let one out with a known flaw but a few people have offered more than the regular selling price of the same model. I don't get it... it's a flawed, used blade and they just NEED it.
 
tryppyr said:
As a consumer, I get where you are coming from. The real flaw in your argument, however, is the fallacy of comparing stock consumer goods with crafts/arts/artisan-made objects.

Sure, it's nice to be able to read Consumer Reports and get a sense for how well the latest model of refrigerators stack up before shelling out thousands on one. But as you noted, what makes those comparisons meaningful is the fact that the manufacturers make hundreds of thousands of them and there are a lot of folks whose opinions can be polled. If you wanted a custom made fridge for your designer kitchen in your multi-million dollar home, how much use is that Consumer Reports article? None at all.

Now let's say you are in the market for some artwork. What's your source there? Consumer Reports doesn't grade artists (or even artisans). If you go to a lot of galleries and museums you might have a sense for what's good... but gosh, that takes time. And yes, having been dragged through many a museum exhibit by my art loving wife, I can tell you it isn't all that much fun to get cultured. But if I was seriously interested in plunking down money for art, I would definitely not expect to be spoon fed the information about what to buy.

In short, you can't think of custom knives as a pure commodity and then suggest that you're "probably a prime customer". Income alone doesn't make you a "prime customer". Your knowledge of the craft makes you a prime customer, and without that the only thing that puts you in that prime spot is your willingness to buy what you like. The fact that you insist on thinking of custom work as commodities makes you a sub-prime customer.
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Makes alot of sense on all points. To me part of the "fun" is the research. Who is doing what in what styles or materials. The more you research the more you know what your getting.
 
Peak_Oil said:
Part of the reason I am hesitant to buy from a one-off custom knifemaker is because I really have no way to know whether the knifemaker is any good or that my knife will be what he said it will be. I could wind up stuck for several hundred $. I know if I buy a Svord it's probably going to be at least close to what I think it's going to be. If the knives weren't one-offs then I could go by reviews of previous customers.

The problem is I know Bose makes junk speakers. I know Creative makes crappy sound cards. Little Caesar's pizza sucks, but at least it's cheap and I know what I'm getting. Coca-Cola really is pretty good! Reed's Extra ginger ale is way better, but it's a little more expensive, and who is Reed again?

I don't want to have to study the knife market for way too much time to figure out who makes a quality product. I personally do not believe I will ultimately get my bang for the buck. The time spent researching the details costs me too much in the long run.

I'm probably a prime customer for a custom knifemaker. My income is what it is. I really like knives. What I don't like is that I have to spend way too much time deciding on who would do a good job. If there was a knifemaker's guild that internally regulated the quality of a product and could cooperate enough to build talent within the field, I would be interested in buying from an organization like that. For example, anyone who wanted to enter the guild would have to produce a certain knife that met certain expectations. That would make me a lot more comfortable in purchasing a custom knife.

Independence is great and I support anyone who experiments with their creativity and skills. The problem is I don't have a yardstick by which to measure the deliverables.
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I think these are very valid points and as a maker I always try to speak to these points when discussing my work because I know exactly where you're coming from.

When you look at a knife sale thread or go to a knife show, you don't readily see a lot of makers putting the discussion of what makes their work perform front and center. Unless you're buying a custom knife as an art piece I think a discussion of the geometry, materials, details of the steel and heat treat are all very relevant. A lot of buyers come to us because they want high end work that will beat the pants off the walmart knives. There are people who appreciate and want that quality. And a lot of makers perform their due diligence and make a superior product, but unless it's a detail that can be seen with the eye, how do you communicate that.

The fact of the matter is, there are plenty of people who choose a lesser quality steel to save money, give it an inferior heat treat because they don't have the technical knowledge, equipment and/or skill to perform an ideal heat treat, use less-than-the-best materials for the scales and put it all together in a package with poorly thought out blade and handle geometry, give it a nice hand finish that looks nice and sell it. And unless it's a wall hanger, it's not going to perform like it should and a brand name knife would have offered more bang for the buck. That is out there, and how are buyers supposed to know without sinking a lot of time into the research?

The other fact of the matter is mass produced and even "high end" manufacturers often (perhaps even as a general rule) cut corners and save money where they can at the expense of optimal quality. A year ago I was talking to a very high end folding knife manufacturer (who will remain nameless) about a D2 folder they were manufacturing. We were talking about D2 and heat treat and my manufacturing services. At the end of the day my shop was never going to be a realistic option for them because they buy their blades from someone in China for well south of $10 per blade. The blade!

So, a buyer might think that buying an expensive "brand name" assures a higher level of quality, but that is not the case. I have a long history of cut tests using "standards" for comparative testing and one inescapable fact that has shaken out over the years is that every single cut test standard that consistently rises to the top was made by a competent custom maker. The manufacturers, big and small, are primarily in the business of maximizing profit. The custom makers are frequently in the business of making the finest knives available. In fact, I think it is safe to say that we live in an era where the best blades ever made in human history are being made right now. They're out there and a lot of it is well within the reach of the average guy.

If you're a maker and you happen to make high quality high performance knives you need to spoon feed the facts to people, because folks are busy and don't necessarily have the time to figure it out for themselves.

If you're a maker and you don't really know if you make high quality high performance knives you need to figure that out. If you haven't done your homework and you don't really honestly know, you're not ready to sell yet, IMO.
 
If the maker is not proud of his manufacturing standards to the point of informing his customers of the optimal material choice , heat treat, and geometry, then you can assume there is no advantage to their work. When I look through the buy/sell area, I am puzzled by the pricing. Many of the knives would be sold at a loss. I put too much time and thought into my work to give it away. I have noticed people think my knives are underpriced once they use them. They were unaware a knife could perform so well, and I am such a novice in this game.

Selling anything is more than just the product. To answer the people that say it's too much research, I blame a lazy seller. For example, we all know a Rc tester is optional if you know how to test a knife, but it provides a benchmark for a seller to inform a customer. I explain the spec of every knife on a card that goes with it.
 
I'm new on here, have only made a few knives myself and never sold any. However, a problem I see is that making knives is only half of the process but it's the only half that most people spend any time on. The other half is telling your story about why what you are making is superior to anything someone might buy from another hobby maker or get with a production knife. Like Nathan says you have to know why your product is better(and just because it is "custom/hand made" doesn't count) and then you have to communicate that to buyers. If you sell out everything the minute you make it or have a 3 year backlog then that is probably not a problem for you(that just means you probably have a pricing problem). If you make similar quality to the guy with a 3 year backlog but you can't sell anything because you keep getting undercut by the hobby maker then you're simply not doing a good enough job communicating and differentiating yourself and your product.
 
But the issue is what do you do with a buyer that doesn't want to spend the time learning what all your explanations mean? How do you convince them that what you sell really IS better than what they can buy at Walmart for 85% less if they don't understand the technical jargon you spit out?

I guess you can baffle them and hope they are impressed. But if they really don't want to spend the time learning what distinguishes a good knife from a crap knife, what then?

And maybe they DO know something about it... but what they know is dead wrong. How do you convince them you are the authority, not some Internet yahoo they believe?

And even assuming they don't have a head full of nonsense, how do you convince them you aren't just another huckster putting your name on cheap Chinese imports?
 
tryppyr said:
But the issue is what do you do with a buyer that doesn't want to spend the time learning what all your explanations mean? How do you convince them that what you sell really IS better than what they can buy at Walmart for 85% less if they don't understand the technical jargon you spit out?

I guess you can baffle them and hope they are impressed. But if they really don't want to spend the time learning what distinguishes a good knife from a crap knife, what then?

And maybe they DO know something about it... but what they know is dead wrong. How do you convince them you are the authority, not some Internet yahoo they believe?

And even assuming they don't have a head full of nonsense, how do you convince them you aren't just another huckster putting your name on cheap Chinese imports?
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This is the second half of running a successful business. When I bred reptiles as a hobby business, I really took care of my animals. I could not sell a baby bearded dragon for under $100.00 and not lose money. The live feed, electricity, fresh greens, suppliments, UV lighting etc all added up. I had many happy customers, but many people bought $40.00 babies that were malnourished, undersized, dehydrated, and had metabolic problems. We were different markets. An educated customer recognized the difference. Some saw a pet reptile as a novelty, rather than the lifestyle that it actually is.

A good salesman presents a confidence that his product is the one you need, and an even better one makes sure it is true. If you speak too technically, people glaze over. If you speak too simply, people think you have no credibility, and each customer has their own balance between the two. We have to distinguish our product from other similar ones. A well made production knife's advantage is price, our advantage is the relationship we have with our clients, and the exclusivity that custom/handmade affords. If the buyer isn't interested, then he/she isn't your target market.

I had coffee with my mother this morning. She was at an Easter dinner last night that I couldn't make it to. She commented right away that she wished she brought one of my knives to carve the turkey, as she basically shredded it rather than cutting it. Last week she showed me her $200.00 production chef's knife, and said she hasn't used it in the past year since I made her a chef's knife for her birthday. My mother would have never been a custom knife user if I hadn't made one. All she knows is that mine are sharper, more comfortable, and hold the edge longer. She now commissions me to make knives for her to give as presents for birthdays and Christmas. Those people turn into customers as well.
 
tryppyr said:
But the issue is what do you do with a buyer that doesn't want to spend the time learning what all your explanations mean? How do you convince them that what you sell really IS better than what they can buy at Walmart for 85% less if they don't understand the technical jargon you spit out?

I guess you can baffle them and hope they are impressed. But if they really don't want to spend the time learning what distinguishes a good knife from a crap knife, what then?

And maybe they DO know something about it... but what they know is dead wrong. How do you convince them you are the authority, not some Internet yahoo they believe?

And even assuming they don't have a head full of nonsense, how do you convince them you aren't just another huckster putting your name on cheap Chinese imports?
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Dylan Fletcher once said that this guy was dissing his knives and that his Gerber was just as good, so Dylan said that he would give the guy $1000 if his Gerber could go edge to edge and cut through his knife, in short Dylan kept his money.
 
Greetings from the bottom! As one of the wannabe doofuses selling half-vast knives at bargain-basement prices, thereby vastly undercutting full-time makers, cheapening the craft, and hurting the industry, I thought I'd better chime in and do my best to answer the OP's question.

I make knives as a hobby and, like others before me, decided to sell a few so that I could defray some of the not insubstantial costs of that hobby. When deciding what to charge for the knives I made, I asked myself what I would pay for them. I didn't ask what I thought someone "should" pay for them, or what they were worth to me as an expression of the countless hours of painstaking labor and effort I put into them, but simply what I would feel comfortable paying for them were I to buy them from myself in an arms-length transaction (perhaps legally and anatomically impossible, but you get the idea). Approaching pricing from the viewpoint of a consumer just makes sense to me; things are worth what people will pay for them, nothing more, nothing less. And I'm a guy who loves knives, knows how much work can go into making them, and appreciates the difference between something handmade meticulously by a human being and something churned out on a production line by the 100s or 1000s. I am also a guy with a six-figure student loan debt for whom paying three figures, even low three figures, on a knife I'm going to use and abuse is not something I can do with any regularity, or really at all, if I'm honest with myself. I have a "safe queen" Ruana made by Vic Hangas that I paid over $300 for (small change to some I'm sure) and I can't bare to bring myself to use it because I don't want to get it dirty and scratched, and that drives me nuts. Even taking my BRKTs into the woods makes me worry about losing them, and when I chipped the crap out of my S35VN highland special on a whitetail's pelvic bone it really made me cringe. So I figured I'd price my knives for guys like me, so they won't have to feel too bad about loosing one in a 4 ft snow drift, or even busting off the tip after deciding to see whether they can get it to stick in the side of that cabin from 15 feet away (I'd like to think there's at least one other moron out there that's done that at some point, hopefully also while beer was involved. For the record, it only took two tries.)

From reading this thread it seems as though there are at least a couple of buyers like that, who can appreciate the option of an imperfect but nonetheless decent handmade knife offered by a hobbyist, even if they'd prefer a knife from a full-time professional maker with perfect fit and finish. And there are also, as evidenced by this thread, some full time makers who've done well for themselves and succeeded in the marketplace despite nimrods like me unwittingly mucking everything up.

Do I have dreams of one day quitting my day job and making knives full time? Of course I do! It would be amazing, unbelievably rewarding, and incredibly satisfying to be able to do something I love every day, all day, and also be able to make a living at it. Truth be told, if I could doing anything I wanted for a living, I'd be a professional buffalo wing eater. I'd study for years to take the buffalo wing eating entrance exam, saddle myself with insurmountable student loan debt to go to the finest buffalo wing eating university, and neglect my family and friends to pour every waking hour into becoming the best GD buffalo wing eater this side of the Mississippi. But unfortunately (and perplexingly!), the market for professional buffalo wing eaters just isn't what I'd like it to be. Sadly, the free market doesn't exist to support my dreams.

Until that changes I'll be eating buffalo wings as a lowly doofus hobbyist.
 
Funny post Mike... it's always a good thing to start the day with a chuckle. I understand about wanting to sell knives at prices you would be happy paying. That doesn't automatically put you in the "mean ol' undercutter" category... lol. Now, I'm hungry for buffalo wings.

I knew I would dig myself into a hole trying to convey my thoughts. They didn't come across as clearly as I hoped. There is nothing wrong with a hobbyist trying to fund his craft. I just know that any full-time maker would not be able to sell for less than what they have invested into it. If your cost of sale is more than your selling price... you won't be in business for long. What under-pricing can do is cloud the market. Educated, experienced buyers will have a good idea of what something is worth... assessing materials, work involved, originality, fit and finish and the reputation of the maker him/herself. Folks delving into the custom/handmade market might have little knowledge of what is involved. Their perceived value may be based on a general consensus of selling prices. They look up "Stag Handled Bowie" and get five different vending sites with knives that appear to be similar but are vastly different in price. If they get four decent makers/hobbyists that range from $150 to $500 and one Bruce Bump at $2100... they are most likely going to feel the Bump knife is overpriced and that 150-500 is the norm. That is just speculation on my part.

So there you go... I just blamed the "uneducated, newbie buyers" for running the industry down, too. Let's see where that gets me. :(:D:p
 
East Branch Knives said:
Greetings from the bottom! As one of the wannabe doofuses selling half-vast knives at bargain-basement prices, thereby vastly undercutting full-time makers, cheapening the craft, and hurting the industry, I thought I'd better chime in and do my best to answer the OP's question.

I make knives as a hobby and, like others before me, decided to sell a few so that I could defray some of the not insubstantial costs of that hobby. When deciding what to charge for the knives I made, I asked myself what I would pay for them. I didn't ask what I thought someone "should" pay for them, or what they were worth to me as an expression of the countless hours of painstaking labor and effort I put into them, but simply what I would feel comfortable paying for them were I to buy them from myself in an arms-length transaction (perhaps legally and anatomically impossible, but you get the idea). Approaching pricing from the viewpoint of a consumer just makes sense to me; things are worth what people will pay for them, nothing more, nothing less. And I'm a guy who loves knives, knows how much work can go into making them, and appreciates the difference between something handmade meticulously by a human being and something churned out on a production line by the 100s or 1000s. I am also a guy with a six-figure student loan debt for whom paying three figures, even low three figures, on a knife I'm going to use and abuse is not something I can do with any regularity, or really at all, if I'm honest with myself. I have a "safe queen" Ruana made by Vic Hangas that I paid over $300 for (small change to some I'm sure) and I can't bare to bring myself to use it because I don't want to get it dirty and scratched, and that drives me nuts. Even taking my BRKTs into the woods makes me worry about losing them, and when I chipped the crap out of my S35VN highland special on a whitetail's pelvic bone it really made me cringe. So I figured I'd price my knives for guys like me, so they won't have to feel too bad about loosing one in a 4 ft snow drift, or even busting off the tip after deciding to see whether they can get it to stick in the side of that cabin from 15 feet away (I'd like to think there's at least one other moron out there that's done that at some point, hopefully also while beer was involved. For the record, it only took two tries.)

From reading this thread it seems as though there are at least a couple of buyers like that, who can appreciate the option of an imperfect but nonetheless decent handmade knife offered by a hobbyist, even if they'd prefer a knife from a full-time professional maker with perfect fit and finish. And there are also, as evidenced by this thread, some full time makers who've done well for themselves and succeeded in the marketplace despite nimrods like me unwittingly mucking everything up.

Do I have dreams of one day quitting my day job and making knives full time? Of course I do! It would be amazing, unbelievably rewarding, and incredibly satisfying to be able to do something I love every day, all day, and also be able to make a living at it. Truth be told, if I could doing anything I wanted for a living, I'd be a professional buffalo wing eater. I'd study for years to take the buffalo wing eating entrance exam, saddle myself with insurmountable student loan debt to go to the finest buffalo wing eating university, and neglect my family and friends to pour every waking hour into becoming the best GD buffalo wing eater this side of the Mississippi. But unfortunately (and perplexingly!), the market for professional buffalo wing eaters just isn't what I'd like it to be. Sadly, the free market doesn't exist to support my dreams.

Until that changes I'll be eating buffalo wings as a lowly doofus hobbyist.
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Dare to dream Mike! There is a Major League Eating; it sponsors, amongst other things, a buffalo wing eating contest. http://www.ifoce.com/

Now back to knives... I don't think that knives made and sold at lower prices by folks in the lower echelons do much more bring in a different level of handmade knife buyer. I see it as bait on a hook as it allows someone who would have otherwise never purchased a handmade knife to try one and see the difference that most us know; walmart knives are junk. :D

Recently I sold a 125.00 knife to a guy who was unfamiliar with the most basic of knowledge regarding a well-made knife or the cottage industry of customs. The price seemed fair and he didn't bother to haggle as he had a "toy" budget and off he went with his knife. Its a few weeks later and he has had time to cut and slash with it and is surprised that its still shaving sharp. Long story less long, he is now looking at sketches of kitchen knives in the $400.00 range. So, there is much to be said for gateway-knife-sellers.

Dictated - Not read,
Mike Martinez
 
Rick Marchand said:
Funny post Mike... it's always a good thing to start the day with a chuckle. I understand about wanting to sell knives at prices you would be happy paying. That doesn't automatically put you in the "mean ol' undercutter" category... lol. Now, I'm hungry for buffalo wings.

I knew I would dig myself into a hole trying to convey my thoughts. They didn't come across as clearly as I hoped. There is nothing wrong with a hobbyist trying to fund his craft. I just know that any full-time maker would not be able to sell for less than what they have invested into it. If your cost of sale is more than your selling price... you won't be in business for long. What under-pricing can do is cloud the market. Educated, experienced buyers will have a good idea of what something is worth... assessing materials, work involved, originality, fit and finish and the reputation of the maker him/herself. Folks delving into the custom/handmade market might have little knowledge of what is involved. Their perceived value may be based on a general consensus of selling prices. They look up "Stag Handled Bowie" and get five different vending sites with knives that appear to be similar but are vastly different in price. If they get four decent makers/hobbyists that range from $150 to $500 and one Bruce Bump at $2100... they are most likely going to feel the Bump knife is overpriced and that 150-500 is the norm. That is just speculation on my part.

So there you go... I just blamed the "uneducated, newbie buyers" for running the industry down, too. Let's see where that gets me. :(:D:p
Click to expand...

Rick, you make a great point (which was reflected in your earlier post with your reference to confusion). Knives from full-time makers are better than knives from hobbyists like me, and their prices reflect that. That's why I hope I'm not undercutting or underpricing, because to do that I think I'd have to be offering the same product at a lower price. (In fact, if I arbitrarily raised my prices to "protect" the industry after, say, chatting with a few knifemakers about how low prices are hurting profits, I may be running the risk of doing something there are laws against, laws put in place to protect competition). In a perfect world, anyone would be able to look at a picture of one of my knives and a picture of a knife from a pro and be able to tell (and appreciate!) the difference. But of course, this isn't a perfect world, and the consumer is fickle, often ignorant, and even sometimes utterly irrational (I think someone already mentioned paying $2k for bag to carry lipstick in!)

So, as you pointed out, education is key I think. I've changed my signature in the hopes of providing a little education (I tried to mention some full timers by name and recommend checking out their sites but ran into the character limit after "check out the") I can only hope other hobbyists like myself will do what they can to educate their potential buyers about who they are and what they do, and why paying more for a knife by a professional is absolutely worth every penny!

Oh, and I'd eat wings 3 meals a day if I could!
 
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