Why Toolless Disassembly Should Be The Future of Knife Design

[Lesknife]

The title of this thread is what the problem is. The words “should be “ is where I have a problem. If you want it to be a tool less take apart that’s fine but don’t make it a mandate. Millions of knife users have done very well with pinned non take apart knives for well over a century. I have take apart knives but I don’t make that a prerequisite. I’ve only taken one apart to remove a piece of cloth material that was in the pivot area that came from the manufacture. I have no plans to take it apart again. Compressed air, soap and water, oil is my go to remedy.

 

[skyhorse]

I’ve accidentally left slip joint knives in my pocket numerous times and putting thru the washer and dryer coming out clean as a hounds tooth . One drop of oil and right as rain .

 

[000Robert]

I guess it depends on how you use your knives. Me.... it is very unusual for a knife to get so dirty that a rinse and perhaps a cotton swab won't do for reasonable cleaning. I am in the "no tinker" camp. But not because I couldn't as @herisson suggested as "nitwits", but rather because it simply isn't necessary due to normal use.

Yes to the firearm analogy. I REALLY do not like to take apart any firearm..... But then, I am a big DA revolver fan and don't care much for 1911's or AR's that people are so fond of taking apart. I went to the Glock armorer's school. I honestly was a bit uncomfortable with the disassembly. I don't want to loose those springs that you have to know ahead of time are under tension.

Most firearms are a piece of cake. Some are a little difficult if you are stripping them down completely. With some firearms you need a slave pin to help with reassembly.
A good way to not loose tiny springs, bearings and stuff is to take the firearm apart inside a thick clear plastic bag. I have some thick plastic bags that I keep my concert t-shirts in that I use for that also.

 

[000Robert]

The title of this thread is what the problem is. The words “should be “ is where I have a problem. If you want it to be a tool less take apart that’s fine but don’t make it a mandate. Millions of knife users have done very well with pinned non take apart knives for well over a century. I have take apart knives but I don’t make that a prerequisite. I’ve only taken one apart to remove a piece of cloth material that was in the pivot area that came from the manufacture. I have no plans to take it apart again. Compressed air, soap and water, oil is my go to remedy.

Yes, but you would be surprised how well water can hide in nooks and crannies. After you blow it dry good with compressed air, it's a good idea to heat the metal parts up good with a heat gun. Or you could put them in the oven for a while.

 

[marchone]

Any mechanical device requires maintenance. A good example was the old Beretta 391 semi-auto shotgun. It is field strippable without tools.

 

[sabre cat]

Or you could just let them air dry instead of leaving your knives in an oven.

Some of you guys really are overthinking this. To each their own I guess.

 

[Danke42]

Any mechanical device requires maintenance. A good example was the old Beretta 391 semi-auto shotgun. It is field strippable without tools.

Except for the punch pin and hammer to get the trigger group out,,,

 

[sabre cat]

Except for the punch pin and hammer to get the trigger group out,,,

He said you could field strip without tools.

I have never seen anyone remove a trigger assembly as part of normal field stripping.

 

[Lesknife]

Yes, but you would be surprised how well water can hide in nooks and crannies. After you blow it dry good with compressed air, it's a good idea to heat the metal parts up good with a heat gun. Or you could put them in the oven for a while.

No, I’ve always used compressed air and then a water displacing oil to get the water out. Heating in an oven can change the tempering of the blade so that’s a definite no for me! I’d rather it air dry if I didn’t have compressed air and oil to use.

 

[sabre cat]

I’ve accidentally left slip joint knives in my pocket numerous times and putting thru the washer and dryer coming out clean as a hounds tooth . One drop of oil and right as rain .

Amazing how well this works.

 

[000Robert]

Or you could just let them air dry instead of leaving your knives in an oven.

Some of you guys really are overthinking this. To each their own I guess.

It is more important for firearms parts than for knives, of course. But why leave that water hiding and slowly air drying? Heat it up and get that water off of there quick is my advice.

 

[000Robert]

No, I’ve always used compressed air and then a water displacing oil to get the water out. Heating in an oven can change the tempering of the blade so that’s a definite no for me! I’d rather it air dry if I didn’t have compressed air and oil to use.

LOL! You don't heat it that hot. Just enough to evaporate the water is all.

 

[marchone]

Except for the punch pin and hammer to get the trigger group out,,,

You got me. But I never had to remove the trigger group to clean the things.

 

[sabre cat]

No, I’ve always used compressed air and then a water displacing oil to get the water out. Heating in an oven can change the tempering of the blade so that’s a definite no for me! I’d rather it air dry if I didn’t have compressed air and oil to use.

I’ve tried most of the suggestions here at one point or another.

Now that I am older, I am not quite so anal about everything.
I don’t have to tear everything down just because of a little bit of lent or dirt. And I don’t need a perfect edge 100 percent of the time.

Just give me a solid knife with quality materials and workmanship. That includes a decent heat treatment.

I like a good tool as much as the next guy but, designing a knife with extra bells and whistles just because you can is not my thing.

IMHO, CRKT has done just that.
Their Homefront model offers nothing of interest to me. The HVAS has merit but, is not up for consideration because of the take down feature, blade steel, heat treatment, and price.

Of course, as my motor skills decline, I may have a different opinion on this tool free disassembly concept.

 

[Danke42]

You got me. But I never had to remove the trigger group to clean the things.

I was pretty curious to see how they could work a trigger group in and out with no tools. They've been making guns for a real long time.

 

[Smaug]

Ha, it's still a gimmick, and to be honest, an ugly one at that.

"Let me reach into my pocket and flip a goofy eyesore level, then flip the folder around and wheel my little wheel....."

So much better than just finding a driver.

Carry it in the desert for a couple of weeks and you won't think it's a gimmick any more.

 

[tltt]

Carry it in the desert for a couple of weeks and you won't think it's a gimmick any more.

If I was stuck in the desert with no water, or a brush, or a rag, I'd be a lot more worried about other things. No need to OCD out about grit in your knife if you've got those problems.

.

Here's something interesting, ffwd to 4:10 in or so, and look at how much actual grit and grim is in the mechanism with the guy trying his hardest to cake the knife up. It's nothing, a minuscule amount that could be washed out of even a pinned together folder with no trouble.

It's a gimmick. If it was a huge thing that everyone wanted, you'd see other manufacturers rushing to have their own ez-strip models/lines.

In the end, mechanically, the modern knife buyer usually wants - 1) Improved lock strength, 2) Simple fast opening, 3) Smoothness. That's where the "arms race" has been in terms of construction the last 50 years or so mainly. Being able to pull apart your knife without tools is way down the list.

 

[cbrstar]

As a former Watch Maker I can see both sides of the argument.
I have had plenty of OCD customers that because thier watch was loosing a extra 2 sec a day instead what ever was advertised on the website. They would feel the need to open it and "adjust" it often mangling the hair spring and destroying any water resistance. Then expecting it to be covered under warranty.
But I have also seen just how much dirt can get inside a watch and the effects of not oiling it can do.

A knife is no where near as complex as a watch but I think that the same type of personalities overlap in collecting.

If you have the manual dexterity and you want to do the extra step of dissembly then why not? I think people feel a sense of accomplishment when they get something "just right" to how they like it.

If you don't even know what a philps screw driver is. Then maybe you should avoid messing with it.

 

[Danke42]

As a former Watch Maker I can see both sides of the argument.
I have had plenty of OCD customers that because thier watch was loosing a extra 2 sec a day instead what ever was advertised on the website. They would feel the need to open it and "adjust" it often mangling the hair spring and destroying any water resistance. Then expecting it to be covered under warranty.
But I have also seen just how much dirt can get inside a watch and the effects of not oiling it can do.

A knife is no where near as complex as a watch but I think that the same type of personalities overlap in collecting.

If you have the manual dexterity and you want to do the extra step of dissembly then why not? I think people feel a sense of accomplishment when they get something "just right" to how they like it.

If you don't even know what a philps screw driver is. Then maybe you should avoid messing with it.

Phillip is the one I pry the casebacks off with right?

I don't usually give my tools names but I may start now. Probably do the hammers first.

 

[MarkN86]

I think when it comes to the CRKT Homefront I'd be more worried the takedown mechanisms loosening up and not staying put over time than getting a little dirt in the knife. Even having a pivot screw on the back side, you can't convince me that the whole knife wouldn't develop a lot of play over time. This knife is exactly what I'm talking about when I talk about the cost of added engineering. It's an AUS-8 knife with aluminum handles that sells for over a hundred bucks. I'd rather buy two Ontario Rat-1s than the Homefront, I know that the RAT-1 is an open construction design and is easy to clean out without needing to take the time and pull it apart.

This was a marketing gimmick, nothing more. It would appeal to the less knife savvy tactical crowd.