Why Use Carbon Steel?

Last time I talked to All Metals Forge....10+ years ago....they were willing to do a #250 smelt........with
a price tag of $10,000.....as I recall...
 
Ive wanted to get my hands on super blue for years..Just a bit to try is all but its been like chasing leprechauns...I can see it but then it laughs at me when I get close..
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
I normally try to stay out of threads like this but...

I have done real work optimizing the best stainless steels and the best tool steels and the best carbon steels and it is clear to me that some folks here have an oversimplified understanding of what constitutes "strength". "294,426 PSI tensile" strength sounds impressive until you consider a HRC 63 D2 steel blade is over 320 KSI but would fail miserably in a sword. You could clack it on the floor and it would break.

Unfortunately, impact numbers that measure energy absorbed in a break are often equally meaningless.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that stainless steel in large blades subject to harsh use and impact is a mistake. On that application, anything in the matrix that is not carrying its weight is a liability, and that applies to excessive chrome, excessive carbide volume and any other non-martensitic structures. If you have enough free chrome to be stainless, there is a tradeoff.

I'll leave you with this parting thought: the landing gear on an airplane is not something like 440C stainless... lol...
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Succinct. No better way to describe it. Life is full of compromises, corrosion resistance is one of them.

When I worked for Hutchinson Technology (they make suspensions for hard drive read/write heads) a huge portion of the hard tooling we built was 416, 420, 440c, 440v, because corrosion resistance was very important to them, corrosion meant contamination. But that tooling, if it were built in any other industry for similar mechanical use would have been A2 or S7. It's hard to say if it did not last as long because direct comparisons are impossible, but in my opinion, it would have been better to make those things from tool steel.
 
colu41 said:
I have been up and down through my first year of making knives. Starting with carbon steel. Learning to hate it because of how easily it will rust, and loving stainless steels. Now I'm back to trying out carbon steels again as I stare at the 8 ft of 1095 I just received from Aldo. I'm no metallurgist at all. Considering most stainless steels have just as much, if not more carbon than carbon steels, I've never understood the purpose.
Now, I'm not sure what properties in steel create toughness/wear resistance. All I know is chromium creates resistance to corrosion, and the more the sulfur, the easier it is to work with.

Could someone out there tell me why some people prefer carbon steels over stainless? When theoretically, good stainless has the best of both worlds? Or does it come down personal preference, old age :p?
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first, it is stain resistant, anything that will harden enough for a good blade will corrode if abused.
hi carbon typically is cheaper, easier to machine pre-heat treat, easier to achieve a good heat treat, more types and sizes available
if you have the time, patience, and equipment, some stainless such as 440C will polish and be about a pretty as you can make a knife.
have you ever worked with O1? easy to work, easy to heat treat, makes an excellent high hardness knife.\
scott
 
Don convinced me, W2 is about the perfect compromise for most of the knives I've made. Other than a few hitachi steel knives, and a little 1095 for those more budget minded, 85% of the knives I've made in the last two years are W2. :thumbup:
 
Willie71 said:
Don convinced me, W2 is about the perfect compromise for most of the knives I've made. Other than a few hitachi steel knives, and a little 1095 for those more budget minded, 85% of the knives I've made in the last two years are W2. :thumbup:
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you should try some 1.2519 C:1,15%/Mn:0,4%/W:1,4%/Cr:1,3%/V:0,25% (https://www.schmiedeglut.de/tungsten-steel-knifesteel_2), close to O7, supercharged O1. same heat treat as O1, 7 to 8 minute soak at 1475F for 1/16"(1.5mm), temper at 300F for Rc65-66. Our brothers on the east side of the pond seem to have much better selection of high carbon steels.
scott
 
scott.livesey said:
you should try some 1.2519 C:1,15%/Mn:0,4%/W:1,4%/Cr:1,3%/V:0,25% (https://www.schmiedeglut.de/tungsten-steel-knifesteel_2), close to O7, supercharged O1. same heat treat as O1, 7 to 8 minute soak at 1475F for 1/16"(1.5mm), temper at 300F for Rc65-66. Our brothers on the east side of the pond seem to have much better selection of high carbon steels.
scott
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have you personally tried this? seems very interesting
might have to have a relative from the UK bring me some.
seems reasonably priced

and back to the OP question - why use carbon steel?
because it's a simple steel, and simple to HT for me and because of what a customer who uses knives said - "What I like about your knives is they stay sharp and when they do get dull I don't have much problem getting them sharp again"

Simple :-)
 
scott.livesey said:
you should try some 1.2519 C:1,15%/Mn:0,4%/W:1,4%/Cr:1,3%/V:0,25% (https://www.schmiedeglut.de/tungsten-steel-knifesteel_2), close to O7, supercharged O1. same heat treat as O1, 7 to 8 minute soak at 1475F for 1/16"(1.5mm), temper at 300F for Rc65-66. Our brothers on the east side of the pond seem to have much better selection of high carbon steels.
scott
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Chemistry looks like it won't do much for a hamon, if at all. It looks sort of like hitachi blue. I should buy a few bars and see how I like it. :thumbup:
 
scott.livesey said:
you should try some 1.2519 C:1,15%/Mn:0,4%/W:1,4%/Cr:1,3%/V:0,25% (https://www.schmiedeglut.de/tungsten-steel-knifesteel_2), close to O7, supercharged O1. same heat treat as O1, 7 to 8 minute soak at 1475F for 1/16"(1.5mm), temper at 300F for Rc65-66. Our brothers on the east side of the pond seem to have much better selection of high carbon steels.
scott
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See if you can get some 1.2442 aka 115W8. Almost the same composition but very little to no chrome, depends on the supplier. My favorite steel. A friend does nice hamons with it.
 
Ease of sharpening and patina that builds character to the blade. Stainless only gets scratched. Most importantly there is a market for it.
 
I have recently finished my first large kitchen knife - a 240 mm gyuto in D2 steel. I neededd 6 hours to hand finish it to 600 grit. Steel like O1 would have taken about half as much. There is of course a LOT of room for improvement on my side (I am really a noob in knifemaking), but the difference is there. I am curios how AEB-L and Niolox will compare to carbon steels in this regard. Personally I prefer to work with carbon steel knives but fully understand that they are not for everybody or for every application.
 
HSC /// said:
have you personally tried this? seems very interesting
might have to have a relative from the UK bring me some.
seems reasonably priced

and back to the OP question - why use carbon steel?
because it's a simple steel, and simple to HT for me and because of what a customer who uses knives said - "What I like about your knives is they stay sharp and when they do get dull I don't have much problem getting them sharp again"

Simple :-)
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i have used them for several knives and have two small ones in work. likes to be ground thin and will hold an edge for a long time, blades were for kitchen use and used on plastic or wood boards only. high flat grind, 15 degree total angle. At Rc65, the blades take time to sharpen.
scott
 
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