Why Won't My Handles Stay On?

Michael J. Spangler

Michael J. Spangler

Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
2,181
alright i'm sick of it

every time i put on a set of slabs they tend to lift off after a few days. not really a big lift but enough so you can see a hairline between the fron of the slab and the ricasso
last time i did it i figured maybe the tang was a little too fine of a polish. so i roughed it up with 36 grit.
i took all the precautions.

roughed up tang
roughed up handle material
kept the material cool while flat sanding
finished it on a surface plate
tried 2 ton epoxy slow cure
tried JB weld
nice warm environment to cure in
kept it cool while shaping the handles and polishing them
didn't clamp too hard and run all the epoxy out
kept it all nice and clean and grease free before assembling
left it for about 36 hours for curing time
treated it like it was my own kid

what the hell did i do wrong??? this is the second try on this knife
and i've tried it many times on other knives. this happens to be buffalo horn but i've had it happen with everything from ivory, to antler, micarta, stabilized woods, you name it. no luck anywhere.

man now i know why i don't finish the damn knives i work on. they always come to a screeching halt before i can get them done

there must be some answer to this? what about screw construction? do those get glued up? someone please help out here i can't take this
i'm about to swear off handle material.:mad: :confused: :grumpy: :thumbdn:
 
Are you using pins or rivets also? The only time I have not pinned is when I used cabon fiber since it glues real well and is not very sensitive to temp and humidity. Otherwise I always pin or rivet.
 
I know what it is...You didn't sacrifice a red chicken, douse it with kerosene, light it and point it's flaming body North while chanting "camma camma camma camma camma cameleon". :eek: :rolleyes: :D

Seriously, man cannot live by adhesive alone. Pinnith and sin no more.
 
Are you pinning the scales on? Just depending on epoxy only to hold won't work. The epoxy works mainly as a sealer between the tang and handle.
Scott
 
Maybe it's because you suck!:D

Maybe it's the guilt you have for not forging the blades!!!!:eek:


Sorry Mike....you know I'm just kidding. Sounds to me like your handle material is not as flat as you might think it is. Try and flatten your material when it is larger(oversize off both ends and sides)...then cut/grind it down to size.
Mace
 
One practice that will help, is to drill holes in the tang. More or less like Swiss cheese. This makes epoxy bridges between the slabs, and lightens the grip a tad. I had the same problem many years ago, and this pretty much stopped it. Another important thing is to be very sure that tang and grip slab are really flat at contact.
 
Buffalo horn just plain sucks, IMO, Michael. I may offend others with that statement, but IMO it's something to avaoid. It all moves, if not today, then later.

What epoxy brand are you using?

Can you show us a pic of the knife in question. I want to see how you have it pinned/fixed to the handle.

Are you absolutely, utterly sure your tangs are flat? Handle stuff with flex enough to conform to an "unflat" tang and pop off as soon as it can.

You might also take to sandblasting your tangs. Mickley and Sando's Glue Wars established that sandblasting is far superior to even coarse sanding for adhesion.

LRB's tip of tang holes is an excellent policy on every knife.
 
Mace,
You couldn't have said it any better!! :D

Mike,
I read through your list of steps and one stood out to me. You said you finished sanding the scales flat on a surface plate. Did you sand the piece back and forth? If you did then sometimes you can take material off of the ends while pushing and pulling, making your material no longer flat. This would give you a high spot in the center and the gap you are getting on the ends.

The correct way to finish on a surface plate is to lap the piece in a figure eight motion. This way you put equal pressure on the entire surface area of the piece while sanding.

Two tricks to check for flatness. One is to put some squiggles with a sharpie the length of the piece and sand a couple of times. This will show you the high spots where the marker was removed and the low spots where the marker remains. You could also put a straight edge up against the piece to check for flatness.

Good luck,
Chuck
 
you know what im having the same problem....and i dont know what it is either....handle fits good when i make it...few days later there is a small gap between the flats and the handle material...i think im going to switch to resin instead of 2 part epoxy and see if i can get a better bond....im at a loss...
 
I use to never pin but then every once in a wile my handles would pop off if the knife was droped so i allwase use pins now.
 
There is some really fine advice in this thread already.

I'm sort of surprised to hear you're having trouble with micarta (the organics you mentioned don't surprise me. Buffalo horn especially!). Sometimes you can do everything right and that ivory, horn or wood will just rebel anyway.

As everyone said, You must pin. Also, people dovetail bolsters to help prevent such things, at least around the front.
 
LRB said:
One practice that will help, is to drill holes in the tang. More or less like Swiss cheese. This makes epoxy bridges between the slabs, and lightens the grip a tad. I had the same problem many years ago, and this pretty much stopped it. Another important thing is to be very sure that tang and grip slab are really flat at contact.
Click to expand...

Hi Mike,

I've been thinking about this situation of attaching handles. Using the technique mentioned by LRB, also drill some blind hole into the handle material itself, this would give the glue/epoxy a channel right into the handle, kinda like a blind pin :confused: Might work.

Larry T
 
If you grind the backside of the scales to a very slight concave (so there is light showing under the scales in the center) and use threaded bolts to attach the scales, there will always be some downward pressure at the ends of the scales. Actually I dont use epoxy at all but instead use light super glue to seal around all the seams after it is bolted together. Be sure to not overtighten the bolts or the scales will warp or crack later. Ask me how I know.
 
If none of these great tips work I will be surprised. Just in case...if none of them work and you didn't try the chicken/chant, don't blame me. :)
 
Mace said:
Maybe it's because you suck!:D

Maybe it's the guilt you have for not forging the blades!!!!:eek:


Sorry Mike....you know I'm just kidding. Sounds to me like your handle material is not as flat as you might think it is. Try and flatten your material when it is larger(oversize off both ends and sides)...then cut/grind it down to size.
Mace
Click to expand...
Dang......give Mace a couple of new letters behind his name and now he's the John the Baptist of the hammer-swingin set...lol:p
 
fitzo said:
Buffalo horn just plain sucks, IMO, Michael. I may offend others with that statement, but IMO it's something to avaoid. It all moves, if not today, then later.

What epoxy brand are you using?

Can you show us a pic of the knife in question. I want to see how you have it pinned/fixed to the handle.

Are you absolutely, utterly sure your tangs are flat? Handle stuff with flex enough to conform to an "unflat" tang and pop off as soon as it can.

You might also take to sandblasting your tangs. Mickley and Sando's Glue Wars established that sandblasting is far superior to even coarse sanding for adhesion.

LRB's tip of tang holes is an excellent policy on every knife.
Click to expand...

Anybody mention spacer materiel?
 
or switch to hidden or morticed tang knives...........and forge your dmn blades like Mace sez!!!! lol. :rolleyes: Seriously.....you can probably get the same handle profile usinf a morticed tang setup and not have to worry about half of this stuff.
 
Bruce Bump said:
If you grind the backside of the scales to a very slight concave (so there is light showing under the scales in the center) and use threaded bolts to attach the scales, there will always be some downward pressure at the ends of the scales. Actually I dont use epoxy at all but instead use light super glue to seal around all the seams after it is bolted together. Be sure to not overtighten the bolts or the scales will warp or crack later. Ask me how I know.
Click to expand...
Cause you like to use crazy exotic handle materiels like mammoth ivory, right Bruce?:D
 
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