Why would a frame lock be stronger than a liner lock??

Personally I like the frame locks over the the liner locks, I carry a sebenza and really cannot fault the design.

There seems to be good argument for both sides so in the end it will come down to personal preference. Both styles work really well as long as they are made well and used within their design application or intention. Just remember that the idea of a folding knife is that it is a convenient way to carry a blade for normal daily use.

What I don't get is why anyone would ever expect a folder to be some kind of over built monster that will tear down trees, zombies or buildings in a single blow. If it's a folding knife it will have limitations regardless of the locking mechanism.
 
For me the reason I like frame locks so much more than liner locks isn't for ultimate failure strength but for security. I've never put so much stress on the back of a blade that it came anywhere close to defeating the lock, but I have torqued one quite a bit. The advantage of the frame lock in that case is that your gripping motion naturally acts as a safety to hold the lock bar in place. I'm not certain a frame lock has much of an advantage when held in a reverse grip or for edge-up cutting. Fortunately most edge up cutting is for stuff like dressing game animals where there's little chance of overstressing the lock.

Given my choice I prefer Spyderco's compression lock over all others including beefy titanium framelocks.
 
Because of the lawsuit happy world we now live in all the major knife makers test their locks of any type to the outer limits of common sense.Even a fixed blade can fail when you push it past that outer limit.
 
trkJr said:
If I wanted to "stab something" it would only be with a fixed blade, never a folder of any kind.
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Its super awesome to know that you wouldn't but since there is this think called 'locking folders' I don't have to find a fixed blade to stab something.
 
The thicker lock would help it wear better, which I think is where the main attraction lies(see Emerson knives). In even the beefiest framelocks(ZT 0551, ZT 0301, XM-18, Sebenza, Umnumzaan), the cutout doesn't seem that much thicker than normal liner locks, which to me puts the ultimate lock strength at about the same level. Though the Liner could be stronger because the thickness is the same from top to bottom, and there isn't a cutout to direct all force at that one point.

Still, I like the framelock because I like the feel of titanium under my fingers, it's simpler by design, and I find it easier and smoother to disengage.
 
Mark McWillis (VP at Benchmade years ago) did terminal tests, IIRC, of many different types/styles of folders. I believe his general conclusion was that for any folder the week spot was at the blade/handle junction. Lock style, strength, handle material, etc. did not really matter. When torquing/twisting/abusing a folder most of the force is at that junction and that is where they break.

If you have a reliable locking system it will work just fine for any reasonable use.

Mark
 
Mark Schmitt said:
Mark McWillis (VP at Benchmade years ago) did terminal tests, IIRC, of many different types/styles of folders. I believe his general conclusion was that for any folder the week spot was at the blade/handle junction. Lock style, strength, handle material, etc. did not really matter. When torquing/twisting/abusing a folder most of the force is at that junction and that is where they break.

If you have a reliable locking system it will work just fine for any reasonable use.

Mark
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I think that when talking about extreme locks, we are at a point beyond "reasonable use".
 
stabman said:
Do you even OWN any frame-locks?
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Why?
O, yeah, I am a stupid poor thing....
I do not go around stabbing trees, but I thought that is OK.

Did my opinion offend you in any way?
Why to be rude?


No, I think I will not be even bothered.
 
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Poez said:
Why?
O, yeah, I am a stupid poor thing....
Did my opinion offend you in any way?
Why to be rude?


No, I think I will not be even bothered.
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I think the point is, have you any experience that makes you have your stated opinion?
 
kawr said:
lol Chris Reeve would like to have a word with you. A properly done framelock is in my humble opinion the most reliable and consistent lock there is while having excellent longevity. For example look at all the user Sebenzas from the 90s that still have perfect lockup to this day. Not to mention that it is by far the simplest locking mechanism so its easy to take care of and excels in the field. While I agree the framelock is nowhere near the strongest lock there is, it's still more than enough for even the hardest of KNIFE use. Also there's no way for the knife to fail on you if you have a proper grip on it while doing your edc tasks or slaying zombies :D.
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I do agree mostly, but for some situations eg: batonning, light prying, i wouldn't trust a frame lock, nor would i any folder. This is a FB's territory. I do agree that a good framelock should be more than strong enough for any non abusive folder task.
 
singularity35 said:
I think the point is, have you any experience that makes you have your stated opinion?
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Well, as I understood, the point was that I did not qualify to have an opinion.

I do not want to challenge anybody's "authority" here - I do not really care. But it is difficult to avoid that kind of aggression here and there - it is not actually rational or context based in my opinion. It is sort of "territory" issue, knee reaction...
 
Poez said:
Well, as I understood, the point was that I did not qualify to have an opinion.

I do not want to challenge anybody's "authority" here - I do not really care. But it is difficult to avoid that kind of aggression here and there - it is not actually rational or context based in my opinion. It is sort of "territory" issue, knee reaction...
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Not to be aggressive(we wouldn't want that, would we?) but wouldn't it be more appropriate to express our opinions on things we have knowledge about?

It's probably just me but I would rather listen to the opinions of those with experience about something and ask question rather than give my own belly button, er opinion about something I don't have experience with.

And oh yes, I know you don't care. :p
 
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Poez, you do still seem to be avoiding answering the question . Acting hurt and lashing out aggressively seems a ruse in this case to continue avoiding the question. Now I'm wanting to know if you have knowledge or experience of which you have strong opinions about. :)

Joe
 
A well executed liner lock is stronger, because the scale that covers the liner adds rigidity and toughness to the liner. I own quite a few framelocks and like them all, the XM-18 is still my favourite folder. But this part around the bottom side of the pivot

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always struck me as thin, and relatively weak and susceptible to torquing if sufficient sideways force is applied. All the framelocks I own have the same basic construction, including newer designs such as the Lionsteel SR-1.

Lionsteel_SR1_06.jpg


A G10 or CF scale will add strength. It may be a theoretical issue, but still.
Just MHO of course. ;)
 

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I like the frame lock for its simplicity (lack of parts), ease of cleaning, and the squeezability option. Most of the liner locks I have run into have plastic handles with steel liners. The pocket clips are anchored in the steel liner because the metal will hold a machine screw. On a frame lock knife there is much more material in which to anchor a pocket clip. A typical liner measures around .050" thick, and a typical pocket clip screw has 56 threads per inch. That's only three threads of engagement on a liner lock. A frame lock slab is more like .125" thick which would provide seven threads of engagement. I have had several liner lock knives with stripped pocket clip female threads but have never had a similar problem on frame lock knives.
 
philwar said:
A well executed liner lock is stronger, because the scale that covers the liner adds rigidity and toughness to the liner.

A G10 or CF scale will add strength. It may be a theoretical issue, but still.
Just MHO of course. ;)
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How does putting a scale on the outside add rigidity to the liner? I can't see how simply covering the liner makes it any stronger. I see that it might be more protected from accidental disengagement.
 
The Mastiff said:
Poez, you do still seem to be avoiding answering the question . Acting hurt and lashing out aggressively seems a ruse in this case to continue avoiding the question. Now I'm wanting to know if you have knowledge or experience of which you have strong opinions about. :)

Joe
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OK. That is kind of stupid... But yes, I have got knives with framelock. The knives I have got are (from the top of my mind):
BM 630 Skirmish
BM 635 Mini Skirmish
BM 760 LF Ti Lum
BM 790 Subrosa
BM 755 Shane Sibert
Kershaw 1590 Spec Bump
CRKT 1091 My Tighe
And yes, some of these knives I have got for number of years and actually used them - like both Skirmishes and CRKT...
Are pictures required? Seriously - if you suspect I "exaggerate", I can even do the picture...
Would photos of my house and my car be of any help - to make sure I am earthling?
Please check what I have said in my original post. What was so opinionated and wrong with it? What has caused that kind of reaction and this question?
Do you believe that what I have said there is absolutely ridiculous? Is that so obvious that linerlocks and framelocks will last much longer without any wear symptoms than any other kind of lock - than AXIS, than backlock, than button or compression locks?
Why then some premium folder manufacturers are trying to find solution for that non-existing problem of frame lock longevity - hexagonal or eccentric stop pins, special replaceable "heads" screwed on the working end of frame lock? Tell me about that and I pretty well may reconsider and agree with you?

What is so stupid in what I have said that actually made some people to suspect that I do not really know what I am talking about? Or know much less than those members who have one knife with framelock and love it? They are not challenged and not asked about what they have...
Could somebody please check/read my original post and show it to me? That is important to me - I do not really like to make a fool out myself...
So yes, you probably do not have to respect me - whatever the number of knives I have got for whatever long. But if I have said something stupid there or wrong from your point of view - could you please say what instead of saying that I am just giving my own belly button and do not know a thing... I did not even say anything about knowing! Com'on - read the post!

P.S. Or it is just wrong to have different opinion? Are they not welcome in this forum? It is a pity really.
 
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Eh I can break my G10 scales in half and possibly bend the liners on my Buck Vantage Pro. Can't say the same for my Bradley Alias ti handles for the frame lock.

As far as lock strength, they should perform similarly, however frame locks have an advantage most of the time. Thicker handles, more securely built so you know your knife will not pop out, nor bend the handles. The handles and sometimes the locks will also last longer.

I think it comes down to how the knife was designed, what thickness slabs they used etc.
 
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