Wicked Edge / Edge Pro

Edit: might be celebrating too soon- see my previous post.

Oh, and if it's dawning on anyone right now that the 'constant-angle' thing is wrong - don't sweat it! I'm in my third year of a chemistry PhD program right now and I can tell you that I've been cut down so many times by my superiors that it's second nature to just shrug it off and learn from it all.

Edit: Argh- now I'm wondering if I'm completely wrong again. Someone help me out- does the bevel change along such a straight edge? I'm thinking too hard here- the stone does rotate as it goes down the edge, but it rotates to stay in the sharpening plane. Or not. We or I better figure this out before too many people are convinced of the wrong concept. Pre-emptive apology if I'm wrong.

This system still has the capability to produce beautifully awesome edges. I peeked into the JerzeeDevil forum thread on the W.E. and saw some of their results (and this was when the W.E. first came out). Take a look at that Strider!

Edit:
So if I buy the EP apex 4 are the polishing tapes it comes with enough to put a mirror edge on my knives?

It looks like it comes with the 2000 and 3000 grit polish tapes. That will take the bevel to a mirror polish with a hint of "cloudyness". Probably not noticeable to the average person unless placed next to an edge polished with the 6k. The 6k tapes are available from Ben for fairly cheap, and he ships quickly. Just throwing that out there.
 
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Thanks! I will probably be ok with the hint of cloudiness.


How long do you thing the stones and polishing tapes will last before they need replacing?



Clay I plan on purchasing either the EP or your system tomorrow so I have to make the decision tonight. The main thing I'm worried about is ease of use and durability, price plays a big role in my decision also.


I can get the edge pro apex with stones ranging from 120 all the way to 3000 grit for $230. Your kit seems like it would be better for my purposes but since I'd have to buy the extra stones at strops (which are pricey) along with a base I'm kind of being turned away. What do you suggest I buy along with the basic kit to make it able to reprofile an edge and also bring that edge to a near mirror polish? Thanks for taking the time to reply, it shows a lot of character.
 
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Edit: might be celebrating too soon- see my previous post.

Edit: Argh- now I'm wondering if I'm completely wrong again. Someone help me out- does the bevel change along such a straight edge? I'm thinking too hard here- the stone does rotate as it goes down the edge, but it rotates to stay in the sharpening plane. Or not. We or I better figure this out before too many people are convinced of the wrong concept. Pre-emptive apology if I'm wrong.

The stone doesn't rotate as it goes down the straight edge, nor does the bevel change. You can see this on any guided sharpening device.

Oh, and if it's dawning on anyone right now that the 'constant-angle' thing is wrong - don't sweat it! I'm in my third year of a chemistry PhD program right now and I can tell you that I've been cut down so many times by my superiors that it's second nature to just shrug it off and learn from it all.

No sweating here..... ;)

In all seriousness though, it helped me to do what I mentioned earlier, rotate the photos that show the stone in various places along the edge, and look at it like a bench stone, and you'll see the knife is "sitting" on the stone at the set angle.

cbw
 
The main thing I'm worried about is ease of use and durability, price plays a big role in my decision also.


I can get the edge pro apex with stones ranging from 120 all the way to 3000 grit for $230. Your kit seems like it would be better for my purposes but since I'd have to buy the extra stones at strops (which are pricey) along with a base I'm kind of being turned away. What do you suggest I buy along with the basic kit to make it able to reprofile an edge and also bring that edge to a near mirror polish? Thanks for taking the time to reply, it shows a lot of character.

Ease of use, between the two, I'd give the edge (pun intended) to the Wicked Edge, in part because you don't have to mess with water, or stone flattening. Durability I don't see as an issue with either system. Versatility goes to the EP.

It would be hard for me to give you a price comparison. The initial cost of the Wicked Edge is more, but long term, I think it would start equaling out. You also get "twice the abrasive" in each grit, and related... sharpening is quicker. After a few months use, the diamond stones on the WE, after the initial 'break-in' that diamonds go thru, seem to be holding up well. FWIW, I get some great edges with the stones that come with the standard WE kit, plus the 14/10 leather strop. You'll get a "polished-scratched" edge, in other words you won't polish out the 600 scratches... but it's a great edge. I think this would be a good starting point. I haven't used the polish tapes on the EP for a while now (the 1K stone leaves a decent finish), but the leather strops and paste will last significantly longer.

It's a tough decision... and some of this is just what you think will suit you better. Either one will do a great job.

cbw
 
Thanks! I will probably be ok with the hint of cloudiness.


How long do you thing the stones and polishing tapes will last before they need replacing?



Clay I plan on purchasing either the EP or your system tomorrow so I have to make the decision tonight. The main thing I'm worried about is ease of use and durability, price plays a big role in my decision also.


I can get the edge pro apex with stones ranging from 120 all the way to 3000 grit for $230. Your kit seems like it would be better for my purposes but since I'd have to buy the extra stones at strops (which are pricey) along with a base I'm kind of being turned away. What do you suggest I buy along with the basic kit to make it able to reprofile an edge and also bring that edge to a near mirror polish? Thanks for taking the time to reply, it shows a lot of character.

CrimsonTideShooter,
Sorry for the delayed response. I bugged out last night finally and went home to the fam. Please contact me directly and we can work something out.
 
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Does the stone rotate? It does if you rotate it. The machines are not automatic, so it still requires input from the user to keep the stone sharpening on the same plane. You could rotate the stone to grind with the leading edge against the primary grind instead of the edge if you wanted to for some reason, but if you set it back on the edge, it will still match the edge as well.

The angles & planes of the stone are not locked in stone for the entire length of travel, if it was the device would be useless. The angle of the edge plane to the table top is matched by a plane of the sharpening stone to the table as well. But the part of the stone that contacts the edge on that plane changes as you move it, and the angle of the guide rod, stone, length of the pivot arm, angle relative to the spine of the knife, etc change as well, because that is the only way to do it as you work from that central pivot. The machine allows you to follow the edge with the sharpening surface of the stone, but it does not force you to.
 
I just thought I'd add in my two engineering cents here. While Mr. Allison has posted some representative CAD drawings, I thought I'd add in my approach, which was to (simply) simulate the actual sharpening pad/surface and guiderod, initially with a long straight edge but it should be fairly quick to modify it to any (reasonable) blade profile you might want.

Overview of my model:
kyj5j.png


Closeup of a cross-section perpendicular through the edge, showing my measurement:
6hhlr8.png


Length units are in inches, both sharpening pads are constrained to have their surface coincident with the edge of the "blade", and the angled pad-rod assembly is constrained to pass through a point in the center of the reference/"vertical" guide-rod, just for reference.

EDIT: just realized I had a small technical error (one of the constraints was wrong) so I'm going to correct it and repost.

EDIT 2: Updated the model so that the centers of guiderods actually run THROUGH each other, turns out the deviation was a glitch of the model, it's exactly 20 degrees at the far end.
122297r.png
 
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That sound you just heard was the thud when BladeChemist had his stroke... I think you're the first one to post an angle increase. ;) :D

kyj5j.png


(I saw your edited correction... cool.) :thumbup:

cbw
 
Having a leetle bit of trouble with my constraints on the curved-edge model. I have to congratulate the posters in this thread, though: until I read it I had been thoroughly in the "of course the angle increases as the arm sweeps out" school of thought. You guys challenged that thought with well-reasoned arguments, and it seems that so far you all have been proven correct. :thumbup:
 
I sincerely apologize for my insistence that my explanation was correct- I had to find a theory that explained why we were seeing a bevel/angle change down the length of the blade but I got stuck on the idea that the explanation was purely mathematical, when in fact the explanation is due to the design of the system and how a particular person uses it. I was confused why the angle cubes were showing no angle change, yet images of blades were showing what appeared to be a linearly increasing bevel width on the straight portion (which means there has to be an angle change). That made no sense to me.

At any rate, with that theory thrown out it still needs to be explained why we're getting a bevel/angle change down the length of a straight blade (in reality, not in theory). Others have already covered the basics, but here's my take.

Unfortunately, the real reason behind this is still due to the design of the W.E. and how it allows user input to dictate the sharpening angle the closer you get to the tip of the blade.

Explanation:

In order to use the W.E. correctly you should not apply any torque to the stones as you move toward the tip with a push stroke or back towards the hilt with a pull stroke. On the W.E. or E.P. if you torque the stones sharpening straight on, it technically doesn't matter- you'll still apply the same sharpening angle. Since the E.P. shouldn't be used off the blade table we'll stop there. But with the W.E. as you sharpen down towards the the tip any torquing of the stones will introduce errors in the sharpening angle (the stones will move out of the sharpening plane seen in the string projection models others have posted). Simulating a push-stroke let's say a person tends to roll the stone counter-clockwise when viewed from above. This will produce a smaller sharpening angle. If you try to counteract that by applying clockwise torque, you may over-correct and apply a larger, more obtuse angle. With no way of controlling for this save experience, practice, or luck, variable angles will be a reality despite the 'precision' nature of this machine. Ultimately, you need to be able to swipe the stone towards the tip while at the same time applying force normal to the edge at all times. If you sharpen your own knives, this might not be a problem if your stroke remains consistent. It will become a problem when the same knife visits multiple W.E. machines with different owners.

Take for example the following scenario:

Person A takes their expensive and highly prized kitchen knife to a professional sharpener who sharpens it on the W.E. The sharpener sends back the sharpened knife to the owner and is courteous enough to write down and give the owner all the clamp and angle settings in case the owner takes the blade to a different W.E. sharpener. Over time, Person A dulls their knife again but now this time they know a friend who also has the W.E. sharpener. Person A takes the knife to the friend, who clamps it in the exact same manner and angle using the settings from the first sharpener. The friend sharpens the knife, but since they have longer arms, or a shorter sitting posture, or grip, etc, they happen to place less torque (or none at all) on the stones. The knife is returned sharp, yet it's obvious the inclusive angle is larger and two bevels are now present, the larger original bevel and the new thinner bevel. Person A sees this, notes the knife is sharp, yet might conclude that their friend doesn't know what they're doing. So in the interest of 'doing it right' Person A buys their own W.E. They setup the knife exactly the same using the initial clamp and angle settings. This time, Person A uses a pull stroke (because they know it shouldn't make a difference). After a few pull strokes Person A is greatly confused- there's now a third bevel on the knife! Person A's pull stroke tends to torque the stone clockwise when viewed from above, causing a high angle/smaller bevel out towards the tip. Person A immediately stops using the pull stroke and goes to a push stroke. They observe that the effect is reversed. With that observation, they go about erasing the wide angle but wouldn't you know it- since the diamond stones remove metal so efficiently Person A is stuck with grinding off a whole lot of metal to get back to that nice acute angle they desire.

Meanwhile in a different universe, Person A takes their prized kitchen knife to a sharpener who uses the Edge Pro. After the knife dulls again, Person A takes it to a friend with an Edge Pro who quickly hones the edge back to sharp, retaining the original bevel. Person A, impressed, buys their own Edge Pro and continues to keep their knife sharp, all the while retaining the same bevel and edge angle. Simply because all three users had the benefit of a design that keeps the area being sharpened close or inline with the pivot point, reducing user-induced angle changes.

Unfortunately, while I was wrong in my original explanation, this means the W.E. is much more prone to user error than I initially thought. Which means it loses points in my book because the edge it puts on a knife will be influenced to a great extent by the sharpening habits of the user.

At any rate, I again apologize for my insistence that there had to be an angle change due to the design of the system, when there is in fact a higher risk of angle change due to the design of the system, and who in particular is using it.

P.S. Don't celebrate my early death just yet cbwx34. I still had to take it upon myself to rationalize the observations, self-correct, and admit I was wrong. One theory dies, another takes its place. Both explained the observations. One was incorrect :p.
 
I sincerely apologize for my insistence that my explanation was correct- I had to find a theory that explained why we were seeing a bevel/angle change down the length of the blade but I got stuck on the idea that the explanation was purely mathematical, when in fact the explanation is due to the design of the system and how a particular person uses it. I was confused why the angle cubes were showing no angle change, yet images of blades were showing what appeared to be a linearly increasing bevel width on the straight portion (which means there has to be an angle change). That made no sense to me.

At any rate, with that theory thrown out it still needs to be explained why we're getting a bevel/angle change down the length of a straight blade (in reality, not in theory). Others have already covered the basics, but here's my take.

Unfortunately, the real reason behind this is still due to the design of the W.E. and how it allows user input to dictate the sharpening angle the closer you get to the tip of the blade.

Explanation:

In order to use the W.E. correctly you should not apply any torque to the stones as you move toward the tip with a push stroke or back towards the hilt with a pull stroke. On the W.E. or E.P. if you torque the stones sharpening straight on, it technically doesn't matter- you'll still apply the same sharpening angle. Since the E.P. shouldn't be used off the blade table we'll stop there. But with the W.E. as you sharpen down towards the the tip any torquing of the stones will introduce errors in the sharpening angle (the stones will move out of the sharpening plane seen in the string projection models others have posted). Simulating a push-stroke let's say a person tends to roll the stone counter-clockwise when viewed from above. This will produce a smaller sharpening angle. If you try to counteract that by applying clockwise torque, you may over-correct and apply a larger, more obtuse angle. With no way of controlling for this save experience, practice, or luck, variable angles will be a reality despite the 'precision' nature of this machine. Ultimately, you need to be able to swipe the stone towards the tip while at the same time applying force normal to the edge at all times. If you sharpen your own knives, this might not be a problem if your stroke remains consistent. It will become a problem when the same knife visits multiple W.E. machines with different owners.

Take for example the following scenario:

Person A takes their expensive and highly prized kitchen knife to a professional sharpener who sharpens it on the W.E. The sharpener sends back the sharpened knife to the owner and is courteous enough to write down and give the owner all the clamp and angle settings in case the owner takes the blade to a different W.E. sharpener. Over time, Person A dulls their knife again but now this time they know a friend who also has the W.E. sharpener. Person A takes the knife to the friend, who clamps it in the exact same manner and angle using the settings from the first sharpener. The friend sharpens the knife, but since they have longer arms, or a shorter sitting posture, or grip, etc, they happen to place less torque (or none at all) on the stones. The knife is returned sharp, yet it's obvious the inclusive angle is larger and two bevels are now present, the larger original bevel and the new thinner bevel. Person A sees this, notes the knife is sharp, yet might conclude that their friend doesn't know what they're doing. So in the interest of 'doing it right' Person A buys their own W.E. They setup the knife exactly the same using the initial clamp and angle settings. This time, Person A uses a pull stroke (because they know it shouldn't make a difference). After a few pull strokes Person A is greatly confused- there's now a third bevel on the knife! Person A's pull stroke tends to torque the stone clockwise when viewed from above, causing a high angle/smaller bevel out towards the tip. Person A immediately stops using the pull stroke and goes to a push stroke. They observe that the effect is reversed. With that observation, they go about erasing the wide angle but wouldn't you know it- since the diamond stones remove metal so efficiently Person A is stuck with grinding off a whole lot of metal to get back to that nice acute angle they desire.

Meanwhile in a different universe, Person A takes their prized kitchen knife to a sharpener who uses the Edge Pro. After the knife dulls again, Person A takes it to a friend with an Edge Pro who quickly hones the edge back to sharp, retaining the original bevel. Person A, impressed, buys their own Edge Pro and continues to keep their knife sharp, all the while retaining the same bevel and edge angle. Simply because all three users had the benefit of a design that keeps the area being sharpened close or inline with the pivot point, reducing user-induced angle changes.

Unfortunately, while I was wrong in my original explanation, this means the W.E. is much more prone to user error than I initially thought. Which means it loses points in my book because the edge it puts on a knife will be influenced to a great extent by the sharpening habits of the user.

At any rate, I again apologize for my insistence that there had to be an angle change due to the design of the system, when there is in fact a higher risk of angle change due to the design of the system, and who in particular is using it.

P.S. Don't celebrate my early death just yet cbwx34. I still had to take it upon myself to rationalize the observations, self-correct, and admit I was wrong. One theory dies, another takes its place. Both explained the observations. One was incorrect :p.

Haha... don't worry, in my scenario, I had you making a full recovery. :)

Sorry, but I don't think this post has any merit. You're willing to say that two people can't sharpen a blade exactly the same on one device, but always will on another... is pretty lame. I could argue that neither one will set the blade stop exactly the same, apply the same amount of pressure, rotate the blade exactly the same, etc. In fact, in the photo I posted earlier, it shows the blade can track differently, and that WAS done on the Edge Pro. Person A could grip the handle tightly and not let it rotate... Person B could hold it loosely and end up with a different angle.

Nothing is proven in your post, IMO....:cool:

cbw
 
Haha... don't worry, in my scenario, I had you making a full recovery. :)

Sorry, but I don't think this post has any merit. You're willing to say that two people can't sharpen a blade exactly the same on one device, but always will on another... is pretty lame. I could argue that neither one will set the blade stop exactly the same, apply the same amount of pressure, rotate the blade exactly the same, etc. In fact, in the photo I posted earlier, it shows the blade can track differently, and that WAS done on the Edge Pro. Person A could grip the handle tightly and not let it rotate... Person B could hold it loosely and end up with a different angle.

Nothing is proven in your post, IMO....:cool:

cbw

Nope, that's not what I'm saying. The Edge Pro is capable of the same angle changes as the Wicked Edge due to uneven pressure on the stone (aka, torquing it around the guide rod). But that effect is minimal or non-existent in the blade table area (for a straight blade) because any rotation of the stone will still cause whatever stone-edge contact to remain essentially at the same sharpening angle (additionally, the E.P. has gravity on it's side which forces the stone flat against the blade). In comparison, torquing the stone while sharpening way out near the tip will change the sharpening angle much more dramatically- this is same for both systems. But as such, I don't sharpen outside of the table area on the E.P. and for its design the W.E. does. You also reference your images from this post, but I can't make sense of why you think that matters- you said you actually prevented the stone from rotating on the rod to produce the intended effect? Why? What does that prove- that you can induce an effect by using a system in an improper manner? People do that all the time, and sometimes they receive a Darwin award for it.

You see, one thing still hasn't changed- I'm still trying to deduce why the W.E. is seemingly more inclined to produce a change in bevel as you near the tip on a straight blade. That's where I started before my foray into my previous explanation attempt and now I'm back there again.

In theory the system should produce a perfectly straight bevel. However, after observing the videos on how the sharpening strokes are made, and the design of the grips on the stones, it seems likely that some amount of torque on the stone is causing the slight bevel/angle change. W.E. owners don't have the benefit of gravity holding the stone and blade in contact like the E.P. does. They need to push the stone down the edge while simultaneously applying uniform pressure against the blade. Too much pressure on the thumbs: clockwise torque and a lower angle/larger bevel. The opposite case: too much pressure with the fingers and you apply counterclockwise torque will result in a larger angle/smaller bevel. There is of course a limit to how much change is possible depending on how snugly the guide rods fit into the stones and how much the rods themselves will bend (which is why any bevel/angle changes have been so small). If this line of reasoning is correct, then we've identified a skill that W.E. owners would need to perfect if they desire perfect bevels. Perhaps for a sharpening competition, bragging rights, perfection- whatever reason.

Any thoughts on this new idea?
 
Yes, that's pretty much what happens if the bevel comes out wrong, you rotate the stone and grind the steel at a different angle. Following the edge in a curve makes you do it, but you also do it with bad technique.
 
I ended up contacting Clay by phone (my mistake drinking coffee today the way I probably sounded). We chatted briefly about this thread and the design of the Wicked Edge. I believe his feelings on debates regarding the W.E. are along the lines of: the more points of view on the subject the better, conflicting views are just another part of the process. In talking about the W.E. he described to me how the stones sit tight up against the blade edge even without the benefit of gravity and the fit between the steel guide bars and the hole drilled in the polypropylene base of the stones is precise, although we didn't discuss the exact parameters. Ultimately, he suggested it would be best if I tested the system out and I agreed, so I'll probably hold off on any final assessments until that time (whether they be positive or negative). With that in mind, just a heads up Clay- Iowa hosts about 250,000 deer hunters annually and my native Wisconsin 600,000 for the 9 day gun season alone- all who I imagine have at least one hunting knife. Just looking for an opportunity to visit Madison or Milwaukee if you're planning on showcasing the W.E. at any shows.
 
I just had to join to leave my 2cents. I discovered the WE only a few days ago and have since been convinced it is the way to go. It is currently unavailable in the UK though I understand that may be about to change. Shame, as I even thought about being the one to bring it here.

The discussion about angles puzzles me. It seems clear that it does not change with the length of the blade and I wonder why Clay even says it's counter-intuitive. It is just a shame I had to read 8 pages to witness the inevitable dawning of realisation from BladeChemist ;)

If there is a change in bevel angle, it must surely be down to the inherent tolerances of the machine and the the user. When you make a $250 machine with zero tolerance, be sure to tell NASA. As for user torquing the rod, this might be more apparent on very long blades, as the rods get closer to parallel with the edge. But I don't see this as being any more than a theoretical problem, irrelevant in the context of this machine's actual use. And BTW, I agree with CBWX34 on that point. Any machine which is merely a guide for hand tools will have user input features/issues.

The bevel change around the curve bothers me a bit, though. However, I am encouraged by Clays drawings which show it is pretty insignificant if the curve can be matched roughly with the radius of the arc of the rods (measured at the 90* position). Not sure how it is going to work on the single Scandinavian type bevel on a Bushcraft knife though.

I have got to get me one of these. I have no doubt it is going to give me the sharpest possible edges. If it has shortcomings, then I can live with them. They can't be as significant as my own!! (As a blade sharpener, I mean)

But WTH do I know, I only have one post to my name.:p
 
Nope, that's not what I'm saying. The Edge Pro is capable of the same angle changes as the Wicked Edge due to uneven pressure on the stone (aka, torquing it around the guide rod). But that effect is minimal or non-existent in the blade table area (for a straight blade) because any rotation of the stone will still cause whatever stone-edge contact to remain essentially at the same sharpening angle (additionally, the E.P. has gravity on it's side which forces the stone flat against the blade). In comparison, torquing the stone while sharpening way out near the tip will change the sharpening angle much more dramatically- this is same for both systems. But as such, I don't sharpen outside of the table area on the E.P. and for its design the W.E. does. You also reference your images from this post, but I can't make sense of why you think that matters- you said you actually prevented the stone from rotating on the rod to produce the intended effect? Why? What does that prove- that you can induce an effect by using a system in an improper manner? People do that all the time, and sometimes they receive a Darwin award for it.

You see, one thing still hasn't changed- I'm still trying to deduce why the W.E. is seemingly more inclined to produce a change in bevel as you near the tip on a straight blade. That's where I started before my foray into my previous explanation attempt and now I'm back there again.

In theory the system should produce a perfectly straight bevel. However, after observing the videos on how the sharpening strokes are made, and the design of the grips on the stones, it seems likely that some amount of torque on the stone is causing the slight bevel/angle change. W.E. owners don't have the benefit of gravity holding the stone and blade in contact like the E.P. does. They need to push the stone down the edge while simultaneously applying uniform pressure against the blade. Too much pressure on the thumbs: clockwise torque and a lower angle/larger bevel. The opposite case: too much pressure with the fingers and you apply counterclockwise torque will result in a larger angle/smaller bevel. There is of course a limit to how much change is possible depending on how snugly the guide rods fit into the stones and how much the rods themselves will bend (which is why any bevel/angle changes have been so small). If this line of reasoning is correct, then we've identified a skill that W.E. owners would need to perfect if they desire perfect bevels. Perhaps for a sharpening competition, bragging rights, perfection- whatever reason.

Any thoughts on this new idea?

Yup... my thoughts are it just takes practice with either device. I don't understand why you're faulting the WE, or even citing it as an issue. Go read just about any EP post where someone says, "I just go a new EP". What are the next few post? "Make sure you get a few beater knives and practice, before you work on your good knives". Read the EP site or videos... Ben talks about the common problems... gripping the knob too hard, is one, which keeps the stone from tracking properly. Does that now make the EP a bad sharpener? I guess so, if your idea is to use it like a Chef's Choice, with no user input or experience. Same holds true for the Wicked Edge... get a few knives and practice first. It doesn't take long to get it down.

I guess you'll have to refresh my memory... but I'm not sure why you deduce "why the WE is seemingly more inclined to produce a change in bevel as you near the tip on a straight blade". As someone pointed out earlier, there's pictures of the same effect on knives that were sharpened on the EP.

In fact, everyone likes pictures so here's one I threw together for you....

WE_Shrpnd.jpg


The top knife, a ZDP Blur, I took on my visit to WE. Clay sharpened it in about 20 min. showing and describing the process along the way, and also during that time he took the blade out and reinserted it a couple of times so we could look at the process. No issues, and it came out pretty good IMO.

The next few are my practice knives when I got it home... these are the first ones I did (in no particular order).

A Shallot that I also had to retip...
A Scallion...
A Griptilian....
and finally 2 Zings. One was done on the WE, the other on the EP... and both look similar. There's a slight widening at the tip on both... (I think it's the knife design... or maybe it was me). :)

So there's some examples. Yes I had previous experience in how to sharpen, but I had never used the WE, and like I said these were practice knives... the first knives I did. And I picked some knives I thought would have issues... so it left me pretty impressed.

BTW, I've said this before, but I don't consider this a put down of the EP, or that one is better. I've found both to work great, and the decision should be made on what better suits one's needs.

cbw
 
^ Negative- I've been referring to long straight blades on the W.E. throughout this thread, not pocket knives. The W.E. does a beautiful job on pocket knives, I've mentioned that. Your pictures are no exception, and I'm sure they're sharp as glass.

Got any pictures of FFG pocket knives sharpened on the W.E.?

Edit: Oh, and I'm not the only one to posit that the W.E. may be susceptible to bevel changes due to torquing of the stones. Read around this thread.
 
Ultimately, he suggested it would be best if I tested the system out and I agreed, so I'll probably hold off on any final assessments until that time (whether they be positive or negative).

Think I'll wait for this to occur. :)

cbw
 
I just had to join to leave my 2cents. I discovered the WE only a few days ago and have since been convinced it is the way to go. It is currently unavailable in the UK though I understand that may be about to change. Shame, as I even thought about being the one to bring it here.

The discussion about angles puzzles me. It seems clear that it does not change with the length of the blade and I wonder why Clay even says it's counter-intuitive. It is just a shame I had to read 8 pages to witness the inevitable dawning of realisation from BladeChemist ;)

If there is a change in bevel angle, it must surely be down to the inherent tolerances of the machine and the the user. When you make a $250 machine with zero tolerance, be sure to tell NASA. As for user torquing the rod, this might be more apparent on very long blades, as the rods get closer to parallel with the edge. But I don't see this as being any more than a theoretical problem, irrelevant in the context of this machine's actual use. And BTW, I agree with CBWX34 on that point. Any machine which is merely a guide for hand tools will have user input features/issues.

The bevel change around the curve bothers me a bit, though. However, I am encouraged by Clays drawings which show it is pretty insignificant if the curve can be matched roughly with the radius of the arc of the rods (measured at the 90* position). Not sure how it is going to work on the single Scandinavian type bevel on a Bushcraft knife though.

I have got to get me one of these. I have no doubt it is going to give me the sharpest possible edges. If it has shortcomings, then I can live with them. They can't be as significant as my own!! (As a blade sharpener, I mean)

But WTH do I know, I only have one post to my name.:p

Inevitable dawning? Pfff- kicking and screaming, buddy :p. I'm used to being right, not being part of the Schadenfreude. Guess there's a first time for everything.

Oh, and looking at Wicked Edge's current dealer's page, there already appears to be a UK/Ireland dealer (maybe not active yet?). I also remember a Spyderco or JerzeeDevil forum member who was from France (I believe) that managed to import a unit. Although I'm guessing UK law might frown on that sort of thing? I'm familiar with some of their knife laws, but not their knife sharpener laws if there is such a thing.
 
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