Wilderness skills = hobby

Sorry for pricking your obviously thin skin, Macclint. I guess only opinions that are the status quo are welcome with some of you. The art or reading thoughtfully and discussing is lost on some of you, I'm afraid.

If you think that's "strident", son you have no idea.
 
CSG said:
If you're not the problem, great. Like runningboar, I am stating my opinions based on what I've seen here and in my local areas as well as Oregon, Washington, and California. If you don't like what I have to say about certain known issues, well, too bad. All I'm trying to do is encourage and educate some of the young, high testosterone members of this forum treat the outdoors with respect. Respect for your fellow outdoorsmen and respect for the lifeforms that live in the place you're visiting.
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You've been here less than one month, yet you're diving gleefully into chastising other forum members for their youthful, irreverent, naive, neanderthal behaviors? The level of condescension in these posts is what is so amazing, and so good at instigating tension. This is one of the primary differences between 'stimulating debate' and picking fights, repeatedly.

You love trees? Neat. You are not a special snowflake. Most everyone here loves them, enough to join a forum to talk about how much they love to visit them and enjoy their fruits, with consideration.

Berating the masses concerning a point that is so basic that it goes without saying, is hardly constructive to anyones goals.
 
Coldwood said:
Chris, I believe he was talking about two others. I'm with you, I believe in "carry in, carry out." I've been known to take a dump in the woods a time or two, but I always buried it and covered it over with lotsa leaves...and scratching it up with my hind legs before I left the scene :D
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I went squirrel hunting last weekend and about a mile from my vehicle, yes I do drive a fossil fueled vehicle, the urge hit me hard. I tried to hold it till I got back but it just wasn't happening and I had TP in my vest. So I found an appropriate height off the ground limb hung my butt over it and did the deed.

My mindset is that I couldn't just leave it there but I had nothing to dig with or a baggy, so I scratched out a little hole with a stick then raked it and the paper in and covered it over, then I found a big rock and covered the little mound. I laughed all the back to my jeep about giving my poop a proper burial. :D Chris
 
Outdoor survival has been my hobby for over 50 years. It started with the USN book. "How to Survive on Land and Sea". We go out to the back 40 (actually 23) and "clear" some of the brush and branches and build a shelter. You get the kids involved and make the work fun. At the end of the day, they have a secret fort and you have a nicer piece of property.
 
batosai117 said:
LMAO. :D

Dad says: son, you are gonna have to dig a hole.

Son says: do I really have to go out here?

Dad says: we're miles from a toilet and you have to go right?

Son says: Does a bear $hit in the woods?

Dad says: Yes...

Son says: Well then YES I have to go but not where a bear does!!!

Just something dumb I thought of that had to do with $hitting in the woods. I bury mine too :D.
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Good one :D I think shifting this whole conversation back to where and when and how a bear $hit$ in the woods would be a welcome addition to the hobby of bushcraft.
 
That would be a good thread to start for somebody. Maybe with poll or something:thumbup:

You know like what sort of things do you find acceptable and not.

I for one don't like to cut live trees on public land because I want to leave it nice. I don't mind doing it on my land but I own that.

Anyway be interesting to know the things all of us think are kosher or not?:confused:
 
hollowdweller said:
That would be a good thread to start for somebody. Maybe with poll or something:thumbup:

You know like what sort of things do you find acceptable and not.

I for one don't like to cut live trees on public land because I want to leave it nice. I don't mind doing it on my land but I own that.

Anyway be interesting to know the things all of us think are kosher or not?:confused:
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Okay, I'd like to start on that one, and I'll try to keep it in tune with what Psy-ops originally proposed, bushcraft as a hobby.

Eating a hot pastrami sandwich in the woods is kosher. Leaving the cellophane and white paper wrapping laying around is not. Why not, because the cellophane and paper are still useful to a survivalist, and more so in extreme escape/evasion scenarios where you don't want to leave a trace that you've ever been there.

Back to the materials at hand, the cellophane, or more likely shrink wrap, is useful for gathering water and binding wounds. The paper, of course, is good for starting fires.

This falls into the crafty aspects of the hobby as far as utilizing everything we find around us. Sit and observe and evaluate what we have at hand.
 
hollowdweller said:
That would be a good thread to start for somebody. Maybe with poll or something:thumbup:

You know like what sort of things do you find acceptable and not.

I for one don't like to cut live trees on public land because I want to leave it nice. I don't mind doing it on my land but I own that.

Anyway be interesting to know the things all of us think are kosher or not?:confused:
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I went for a short hike on a well used trail last weekend. The trail has a self serve type stand, maps available for those who wish, also the doggie crap bags. What's kosher is people picking up after fido, what's not is them leaving the full bags of crap in the parking lot:thumbdn:
 
Outdoor survival, ie living off the land, theoretically has a much lower impact on the wilderness than our concrete jungles do anyways.

It is certainly my goal when it is financially feasible, to get some land, build some type of cabin, underground home, etc, and live on, and survive off that very same land.

Wilderness survival when done properly, probably has the lowest impact on wilderness of any type of living, certainly more than living in a giant megopolis type city. The simple life and living as free as possible, is where it's at, as far as I am concerned.
 
Nice post psy ops.

It seems to me that most of what we know is considered geeky to the mainstream (I am trying to be kind here) anyway.

As to making the smallest impact on your environment...sure thats what we should do. Should; being the operative word there. Can we? Not all the time. Sometimes when practicing you have burn through some of your resources, thats just the cold, hard facts. It wouldn't be practice if failure weren't an option.
 
I must confess to pooping in the woods every once in a while especially when campling - but I do bury my creations.

Regarding, swishing of grey water, this seems like a trivial offering if you are pooping and urinating in the woods as part of your camping. The ammonia contributed by a good pee and the phosphorus in your poop will be more likely to stimulate growth then a bit of grey water will. Or am I mistaken and no-trace folks pack out their poop/urine with em? (maybe this is why they carry an empty nalgene with their full one? - could be confusing though). Anyhow, a better policy in my books would be to reduce greywater, avoid using soap (or at least buy biodegradable soap) and try to discard grey water away from open water and streams or dried stream beds. Also keep it away from your camp site so as not to lure unwanted wildlife.

This is a rather interesting thread. To tell truth I assumed most W&S regulars were conservation minded and this thread hasn't convinced me otherwise. There are definitely differences in opinion here regarding hunting and fishing takes, i.e. to catch your limit or practice catch and release, but most of us seem to agree with the practice of legal hunting and fishing. There have been some mild discussion regarding opinions to extend hunting or fishing practices beyond current limits, which is healthy, but I can't imagine anyone here would advocate or even admit to poaching unless for actual survival purposes.

Certainly if we were to contrast the responsiveness of W&S frequenters to conservation practicies like setting aside national forests and preserves, allowing hunting and fishing access on crown/public lands, implementation of conservation taxes (like fishing and hunting licensing) it would be much more favorable to most of us then lets say the population of frequenters of the 'Political arena'. Am I wrong?

Oh to the one earlier post. I regard myself as an environmentalist. I don't think being an environmentalist is at odds with being a conservationist. Environmentalism is simply a broader term for the philosophy towards promoting sustainable living by society while conservationism refers more specifically to the setting aside of parks, preserves and natural resources to be enjoyed as a legacy for future generations. The word environmentalism doesn't have to be tied to radical groups like Greenpeace. It certainly has nothing to do with PETA which is a radical attitude towards animal ethics/rights but not sustainable animal use. In my area we have some great forward thinking environmental groups that work at the local level on non-radical issues like petitioning for anti-ideling laws, promoting creation of bike paths, sustainable waste practices and so forth. I give them my time through volunteer activities and money through donations because I think they do great work.
 
I must confess to pooping in the woods every once in a while especially when campling - but I do bury my creations. -kgd

Campling and pooping, eh...ridiculous.

btw-I almost campled a poop when I read this. LOL!
 
IUKE12 said:
I went for a short hike on a well used trail last weekend. The trail has a self serve type stand, maps available for those who wish, also the doggie crap bags. What's kosher is people picking up after fido, what's not is them leaving the full bags of crap in the parking lot:thumbdn:
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I saw the same thing a couple of days ago, but the little blue baggies weren't the parking lot it was all along the trail. On that same hike I took a few of my daughters friends out with us whom had never been hiking (WTF?). I was taking the back and letting all of the kiddies stay in front of me. On the return trip I had found that the newbies starting dropping litter from their snacks and water bottles. "STOP" I gave them all the lecture about pack out what you packed in and hopefully that will stick with them next time they go out on a trail.

To me, bushcraft is more than a hobby its a way of life, and some of its traditions and teachings are going by the waste side.
 
The grey water is just a way of keeping animals from becoming dependent on human food. If you are referring to swallowing the left over food with water in your bowl, then that is the grey water that I am talking about. It is one way to ensure that there won't be any trace or evidence that we were there in the first place. The poop and pee is just something that we all do. At Philmont we were told that if we had to urinate to not do it on trees. Deer take this as a "salt lick" and end up tearing off bark from the trees. This seems a little extreme to me, but we had to respect the rules of the place, so we didn't urinate on the trees. The terd itself is just something that is biodegradable anyways, so the rolly polly's have temporary housing. We did have to use "camp suds" which is a non-scented biodegradable soap.
 
IH8U said:
To me, bushcraft is more than a hobby its a way of life, and some of its traditions and teachings are going by the waste side.
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:thumbup: Good way to put it. Bushcraft is a way of life. To not be wasteful and respect the land and even the little critters. If I shoot at rabbits, I make sure I eat them afterwards, not just shoot the things for fun.
 
Oops - thanks for the typo spot Chef. The term cam-pling does resonate with the message though doesn't it. I already posted in W&C how I caught one of my own typos where I accidently typed 'my peculiar testes' instead of 'my peculiar tastes' :) Guess I have to pay attention.

I still don't see the grey water being a giant draw of wildlife to human food, unless of course you are dumping a pile food. I guess I was just thinking of rinsing the little bit of sauce from your plate. I can see the point about not urinating on trees. Thanks for the tip(-pling) I'll try to remember that one.
 
Runningboar, I was NOT speaking of you. Sorry if my post made it seem that way.

CSG, I WAS speaking of you.

Sorry for pricking your obviously thin skin, Macclint. I guess only opinions that are the status quo are welcome with some of you. The art or reading thoughtfully and discussing is lost on some of you, I'm afraid.

If you think that's "strident", son you have no idea.
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I could reply to this, but Spookypistolero said it so well, already.
 
If some thought is given to the collection of materials such as spruce or fir boughs for a browse bed, the trees which they are harvested from can actually benefit, just as a shrub in one's yard benefits from pruning. The area in which I live is the source for a very large percentage of the Christmas wreaths made in this country, and almost all the material for them is harvested in the woods, not some tree farm. We're talking tens of thousands of tons of brush harvested every year. Only the tips of the fir boughs are taken (snapped off with the fingers), the actual branch is never cut. The tree grows back fuller the following year. My point is that the forest is a renewable resource, there is however, a vast difference between the impact an experienced woodsman makes on the woods, and that of the individual who regards the woods as little more than a scenic prop for his recreation.
 
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