Will Moon "Spindle" lock?

b00n said:
Since I am not a lawyer but I am curious, Benchmade's Axis Lock is basically free to be used now. What happens if Will Moon gets his patent approved, would it need to be worded clearly differently from what the Axis Lock was? Or could he potentially start doing a "CS San Mai" Thing and try to come after people for using "his lock" for example with the Hogue Knives?
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Nearly all patents are "improvement" patents. Moon can't just re-patent the Axis Lock (obviously), but he certainly could patent a design that starts with an Axis lock and changes it in ways that are "new" and "non-obvious" (those are terms of art in patent law and have specific meanings). It's entirely possible that he could patent his improved version of the Axis lock.
 
If your not good at your job and don't improve you get fired. He doesn't understand he's been fired. He keeps trying cause he can see how much money he can make by selling the junk crap he makes. Cause people are attracted to his style.

In of the guys who was showing off his stuff was having an issue with the knives. He sent it back but will never knew how to fix it so never did. This guy didn't know what to do but sell it or just let it sit in his collection and he doesn't want to publicly say his issues cause he's not that type of guy.

That seems to happen. Alot.

Its terrible that he's so bad yet filed a patent for something he really didn't do. Why even file it. Because he's so bad to begin with. It's a sad situation for sure.
 
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insta9ves said:
Has anyone seen the new Will Moon Banshee model with his modified Axis lock that he called Spindle lock? I like the design and was thinking about getting his new model. The only problem I have with the Spindle lock is that Will Moon is currently in the process of getting a patent for his "proprietary" lock and was planning on licensing it to other manufacturers.

The Spindle lock works the same way as the Axis lock and instead of using omega springs on both side, it's using coil spring. It's similar to Benchmade Anthem however in this case it's using and a guide rod and coil spring nested in the handle scale on each side. Does this modification warranted a new patent when the lock works the same just installed differently? I personally question the ethic behind doing this..

Will's argument is that he equates his Spindle lock modification of Axis lock to Demko's Triad lock which is based on the backlock. However IMO the Triad lock has way more distinction than the back lock because the entire load bearing mechanism is changed, not to mention the "angled/hooked" lock engagement that require the lock bar pivot to have oval cutout for forward/backward movement in order for the hook to engage. This is not the case for Spindle lock which essentially works the same as Axis lock.

What im trying to ask is that, are people allowed to make slight modification of the axis lock then apply a patent for it like a proprietary lock? Won't Benchmade be able to patent their Anthem style axis lock if that's the case? I guess this is up to the patent office to decide, but this kinda turns me off, no matter how much better the modified lock is..

Edit: BTW here a video of Moon explaining the Spindle lock for reference.

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I believe Benchmade can and is applying for patents on the anthem axis lock as well as the button axis lock on the assited Benchmade 665.
 
Mo2 said:
If your not good at your job and don't improve you get fired. He doesn't understand he's been fired. He keeps trying cause he can see how much money he can make by selling the junk crap he makes. Cause people are attracted to his style.

In of the guys who was showing off his stuff was having an issue with the knives. He sent it back but will never knew how to fix it so never did. This guy didn't know what to do but sell it or just let it sit in his collection and he doesn't want to publicly say his issues cause he's not that type of guy.

That seems to happen. Alot.

Its terrible that he's so bad yet filed a patent for something he really didn't do. Why even file it. Because he's so bad to begin with. It's a sad situation for sure.
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It’s the “new” (“novel” to use the patent term) and the “non-obvious” parts he may have a problem with. If the only change is the type of spring used, that may not be novel and non-obvious enough to get a patent.

That aside, I’ve looked around the USPTO application database, and can’t find anything with his name on it within the last few years. You can’t start a patent application once you market an invention, the application has to be the first public disclosure or you can’t get a patent. He put a video on YouTube a few months ago, so there should be a patent application pending. Either that, or he’s full of shit and it’s just marketing nonsense.
 
OrangeBlueOrangeBlue said:
You can’t start a patent application once you market an invention, the application has to be the first public disclosure or you can’t get a patent.
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With a 12 month grace period. So he should still be OK.

EDIT: Presuming he is going to file exclusively in the US. Other countries have different grace periods or none at all.
 
insta9ves said:
Honestly I almost pulled the trigger on his Banshee model over the holiday.
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I first heard of him a few weeks ago when I first heard about the Spindle lock. I'm a huge lock nerd and got very interested in buying one myself but I always search up makers in the GBU here before I buy from them.

That was, as everyone would expect, eye-opening. Now he's off my list.

As for your question, I don't think there's anything wrong with applying for a patent if you think you qualify. :/
 
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SpySmasher said:
With a 12 month grace period. So he should still be OK.

EDIT: Presuming he is going to file exclusively in the US. Other countries have different grace periods or none at all.
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IIRC, most international jurisdictions where you’d want to patent require at least preliminary applications before disclosure, or you lose your ability to get a patent.

And who knows when his first public disclosure actually was; I doubt it was the YouTube video.
 
Quiet said:
You've been here since 2007 and don't know how the search function works? There's a thread dedicated to him in the Feedback section, it's highly illuminating.
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vanadium said:
This type of answer never works. Every time someone answers a question with "just search for it", their answer becomes the #1 search match for the question. It's like a law of the internet.
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+1 thank you, better than i can say it. I know how the search function work, i also appreciate the community here who's able to help with constructive info, instead of wasting internet byte playing internet tough guy.
 
insta9ves said:
+1 thank you, better than i can say it. I know how the search function work, i also appreciate the community here who's able to help with constructive info, instead of wasting internet byte playing internet tough guy.
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So everyone who dislikes Will Moon and his ethics are internet tough guys? Gotcha.
 
I think another factor that changes depending on country is how prior art is viewed. Say the lock would be patentable on the face of it, but the improvement comes from a similar but distinct system, then it could be argued that the patent is invalid. For example if there is an arc-lock from SOG that uses coil springs, it could all be seen as similar enough to count as prior art. Although this is all just speculation on my part. Getting and then defending a patent is a higher bar than many realize, much to the dismay of many home inventors that fall victim to predatory manufacturers. I'm going to guess that this is a case of salesmanship rather than innovation. But I could be wrong.
 
His changes to the Axis lock looks valid for a patent to me and honestly it looks like an actual improvement over the Omega springs but after searching his name on the interweb this was the first vid that popped up. I hope he has a second job lined up because according to opinions on the BF and the World Wide Web he's a full fledged D-Bag so it's a hard pass on anything he puts his name on for me.
 
91bravo said:
So everyone who dislikes Will Moon and his ethics are internet tough guys? Gotcha.
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Ummm out of context perhaps? "Tough guys" refer to the one who tells me to learn to use search function since i've been on this forums for 12 years.
Im the OP and im certainly not a fan of his ethic as i mentioned.
 
You folks need to address the question the OP asked instead of dissecting the OP.
There's a couple of you on the verge of earning some points.
 
b00n said:
Since I am not a lawyer but I am curious, Benchmade's Axis Lock is basically free to be used now. What happens if Will Moon gets his patent approved, would it need to be worded clearly differently from what the Axis Lock was? Or could he potentially start doing a "CS San Mai" Thing and try to come after people for using "his lock" for example with the Hogue Knives?
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This is actually a valid concern that kinda led to my initial question. If his patent got approved, depending on the scope of the patent, it technically mean he’s potentially legally allowed to go after anyone who’s making axis lock with coil spring rather than the omega spring as this seem to be the only (major) modification he made to the lock. In an extreme case, if the scope of the patent includes the lockbar and other parts, does it mean any maker using some form of axis lock will infringe his patent?
 
Side note, the other modification he made on the axis lock is to change the lockbar from one piece construction into screwed-together construction so that the lockbar can be removed without disassembling the knife to change the spring.
IMO that’s not really an improvement over the axis lockbar that’s turned from a solid piece of steel, because instead of a one piece construction, he new turned it into a 3 piece construction with screws on both end potentially coming loose due to repeated use. More parts means higher probability of failure.
 
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