Winkler Stress

VolundoftheForge said:
I'm not sure what all you did in your testing, and I'm curious of what applications you used it for.
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Man, now I want to go find some more 'hawks in 5160 just to see more of a difference for the future (personally). I don't know if this will help, but to answer your question in a general way (as I am truly not interested in getting myself in trouble with my bosses);

Among other things, we conducted testing on various types of doors, windows (rake and break), different types of metal locks and various vehicles (to include the glass and steel and other materials which comprised each car). We used each tomahawk to pry, chop, cut, smash, etc., for each test material in question. A lot of breaching applications mixed in with various "chores" and CQB/CQC handling that tested the limits of each 'hawks strength, edge retention and overall quality/ease of use.

All those I mentioned came through with flying colors. Solid edge retention on all and we had no issue with chips, fractures, major dents or any failures after the fact for any of the tomahawks which made it to the "final four". That is the most I can give you right now (I know it isn't much), but thanks for the follow-up!
 
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This part in bold sounds odd to me, I have had chips, dents and loss of edges on all my hawks when chopping up cars, taking out door hinges, smashing windows or breaking holes in walls. To say that didn't happen seems unlikely to me. I will say my hawks were also pretty easy to fix up with only hand sharpening so it was a "non issue" in that respect.

SHIFTER said:
Man, now I want to go find some more 'hawks in 5160 just to see more of a difference for the future (personally). I don't know if this will help, but to answer your question in a general way (as I am truly not interested in getting myself in trouble with my bosses);

Among other things, we conducted testing on various types of doors, windows (rake and break), different types of metal locks and various vehicles (to include the glass and steel and other materials which comprised each car). We used each tomahawk to pry, chop, cut, smash, etc., for each test material in question. A lot of breaching applications mixed in with various "chores" and CQB/CQC handling that tested the limits of each 'hawks strength, edge retention and overall quality/ease of use.

All those I mentioned came through with flying colors. Solid edge retention on all and we had no issue with chips, fractures, major dents or any failures after the fact for any of the tomahawks which made it to the "final four". That is the most I can give you right now (I know it isn't much), but thanks for the follow-up!
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Winkler and RMJ make excellent hard use tools. Both Daniel and Ryan have well deserved reputations as being men of honor and are class acts.

I use a combat axe and a belt knife at work, both have performed exceptionally well. Just as Ed said, I would stake my life on a Winkler or RMJ.

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Haze said:
This part in bold sounds odd to me, I have had chips, dents and loss of edges on all my hawks when chopping up cars, taking out door hinges, smashing windows or breaking holes in walls. To say that didn't happen seems unlikely to me. I will say my hawks were also pretty easy to fix up with only hand sharpening so it was a "non issue" in that respect.
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Haze,

You're correct, and I apologize I didn't clarify further as I don't want to confuse anyone...
EVERY single one of them ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED re-sharpening after the fact (especially after hacking off pieces of the cars and some lock-related abuse that I remember fondly). However, this re-sharpening did remove the (overall) minor chips, burrs, dents and dings which accompanied all of the related testing for all of the 'hawks in the "final four".

We'd wipe down the tomahawks with a silicone "gun, rod and reel" cloth to get a baseline before and after each test. Then we'd evaluate and re-sharpen as needed/required. They weren't as "brand-new pretty" after the fact, but they were still fully functional. Basically the majority of any "damage" to these "final four" tools was cosmetic in nature. I would agree that you could call it a "non-issue" after they got a little maintenance to the blade(s). This was all that was really required to keep them going. This would be on the level of what you'd expect from a good working tool.

Now when I stated that "...we had no issue with chips, fractures, major dents or any failures after the fact for any of the tomahawks which made it to the "final four"...", I was mentally omitting the fact that we did have some OTHER tomahawks which looked like they would have required a full re-grind and some mods to the blade face in order to "work around" or work out the large chips, fractures, major dents and failures which DID occur in those other lesser quality tools. Sorry for any confusion.
 
That was largly my experience as well. I found windows and concrete to be the worst on fine edges and spikes, door hinges were a close second. I didn't do any chopping on engine blocks or sus. arms or anything like that but the car body work was quite easy to eat up with little to no damage worth shouting about. Softer targets like wood door frames, partition walls, car tyres and seats etc. were of course just laughed at.
 
jwaj said:
Winkler and RMJ make excellent hard use tools. Both Daniel and Ryan have well deserved reputations as being men of honor and are class acts.

I use a combat axe and a belt knife at work, both have performed exceptionally well. Just as Ed said, I would stake my life on a Winkler or RMJ.

20qz391.jpg
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You've peaked my curiosity: What DO you do for a living? Also, ended up ordering a "tribal" belt knife with markings similar to the Sayoc. I figure if I can't stand it(which I highly doubt), I can turn it around for about what I paid and save for the combat axe.
 
Good call...I doubt you'll have any regrets on the decision! (you know...except for any related waiting!) :)
 
Speaking only for myself, I think D2 os only a poor choice when you consider all the GREAT choices available.

This thread makes me wish I had discovered my love of hawks while still in the Corps. To think of all the fragile doors taken down by boot or sledge that I could have tomahawked! It makes me sad :(
 
scouter, I agree 5160 takes alot of abuse. Not to stray off topic and I'm certainly no expert, just observations from my experiences. D2 is good knife steel but it's not the best steel for impact/breaching tools. That's key when your planning on using these tools in a breaching capacity. Daniel and Ryan make a living knowing what's the best materials and designs to perform the tools desired task. I trust their experience and judgement.

.
 
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Ed: Your collection in inspiring, thanks for the video.

Shifter: Valuable insight from the comparison side, no issue with the D2 and comparable performance to the other brands - interesting!
Found this on Facebook, is this you or another outfit? http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=302685749809077

I’m happy with my Aussie tools but always on the lookout for a good second hand Talon or baby Winkler should anyone wish to divest.

Cheers

Jontan888
(It’s an Asian thing)
 
Jontan888 said:
Shifter: Found this on Facebook, is this you or another outfit? http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=302685749809077
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Jontan,

The guys from Sage Dynamics are an all together different group. We'd heard about their testing and we appreciated something similar (in some ways) being available to the public, as our T&E was for our own internal LEO/tactical team use and as such will never be made public. The review by Sage seems pretty solid though.
 
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Volund, I just got my Winkler 2 Camp Axe a few days ago. I know it's not exactly the Combat Axe, but it's still awesome. The tapered tang really puts the weight up in the head, and the grind is just right for this type of tool. Held next to other axes, like my GB SFA, Council Velvicut HB, and even the RMJ Jenny Wren, the area behind the edge is thinner. I expect it to bite deep for it's size and weight. Total weight is 24oz, same as the Sayoc, and the feel of the forward weight seems the same. Maybe I can go chop something tomorrow and see how she does.
This thread and the new Camp Axe have inspired me to get a Belt Knife as well, it's in the mail already! BTW, these tools aren't supposed to be a source of stress, they are a pleasure to own.
Anyway, here's some pics of the Sayoc, Camp Axe, and the Jenny Wren just for comparison.

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SHIFTER said:
Jontan,

The guys from Sage Dynamics are an all together different group. We'd heard about their testing and we appreciated something similar (in some ways) being available to the public, as our T&E was for our own internal LEO/tactical team use and as such will never be made public. The review by Sage seems pretty solid though.
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Yeah that's what I thought when I read it. A bit of surfing this weekend turned up this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNHsNvKBCuo

Foxx: Nice collection!!!

Cheers

Jontan888
(It's an Asian thing)
 
I have not had a lot of time to keep up with the forums lately. Business is going really good but it does limit my time for reading. I have read over this thread and really appreciate the support and confidence most have in our knives and axes. We are not perfect but do try and make the best equipment possible. Having some of the top level users carry our stuff is very gratifying but does require you be on your toes in all regards of the product. Steel choice is just one small part of the equation in getting a high performance knives and axes. Heat treating, design balance, handle configuration and material as well as the carry system and many other factors come into play. Personally I would not choose D2 as steel for an axe. D2 is great steel but from my experience is not what I believe to be the best for the primary use of a chopping tool. I find 5160 has a good balance between wear resistance and shock resistance and use it for most of our axes.
In regard to manufactures borrowing ideas from other maker’s designs, I guess it just depends on the point of view of the individual. I really don’t have any control of what they do and feel if I develop a good product design the market will either support what I do or it won’t. I realize what we make can be a bit expensive when compared to larger production companies. However what really bothers me is when a manufacturer makes a knife or axe with inferior materials and production methods. Someone buys it thinking they have a high performance tool and have it fail during use. I also feel that we all get inspiration from other maker’s designs. How we use this inspiration is a controversial matter. Drawing the line from being a copy artist and a true designer varies. I guess from the posts on this thread the other company in question may have crossed the line and the market will sort it out. In regard to the performance of the D2 axe we have one report here that is favorable. I am glad to hear it. The higher the standards are the better for all involved.
I can’t say enough good things about Ryan Johnson. I have known Ryan for a long time and his commitment to producing high performance and unique designs put his equipment right at the top. Like me I am sure his prices are reflective of the time, material and quality of the products. You can’t get the best by cutting corners. He is also an honorable man and has a good reputation in the industry. I am proud to consider him a friend.
Anyone that has remorse about buying any of my knives or axes let me know. Be assured I will take care of you. I stand behind what we make 100%.

Daniel
 
Mr. Winkler,

Thank you for your input on this thread as well as your time, your professionalism and of course your work & tools.
All are appreciated more than you know.
 
As someone who has borrowed some of your design elements in a couple hawks I had commissioned, I'd like to thank you for everything you do to create such functional and durable pieces of art.
 
Hang the Winkler on the wall.....get a hold of Wolf Creek Forge and get one of his hawks for using. ( not that the Winkler can't be used. but why scratch it up ??)
 
zekemc said:
Hang the Winkler on the wall.....get a hold of Wolf Creek Forge and get one of his hawks for using. ( not that the Winkler can't be used. but why scratch it up ??)
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I didn't. Not for something i paid for performance. Dan won't be very pleased too.
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However it's a different story with this (if i won a lottery or get hooked up by one of the friends in special ops)
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