Winter Camping, What gear do I need?

[trailbum]

A sleeping mat. Walmart special or high end. It is a must.
The cold ground will suck out your body heat.
Snowshoes for deep snow.

 

[Thomas Linton]

As this will be your first Winter camping experience, this seems especially appropriate (in addition to the good advice above): "Experiment under safe conditions to find out what works for you."

 

[HandofCod]

Don't ditch the idea of hammock camping just because it's winter. You just need a good quality underquilt. Jacks R Better sell a huge range. I have a Mt Washington 3 rated down to 20F, pair that with a top quilt or a sleeping bag (I have an Exped Lite 700) and you'll be toasty. Or if you are worried about really cold weather, the Mt Wash. 4 is good down to 5F!

Beats carrying bulky and heavy foam matts or down inflatibles.

[youtube]d7NZVqpBUV0[/youtube]

 

[RyanW]

007 Nailed all points IMO... I live in Utah, do some winter camping each year. Skip the Hammock idea, I also feel the Bivy is not the best option. Go with the 3 man tent (Sleeps 2 + gear) Jetboil works well, keep the fuel warm. Mtn. House Meals and H20 saves weight and time. A Good sleeping bag in place of Wool blankets. I do Wear/Carry a wool "Shirt" for camp chores and night activities... Ground cover, Ground cover, Ground cover will save you on those 20 degree nights.

Bottom line is you will have a great time, if you are prepared for the Cold nights...

Enjoy and be safe!

 

[kgd]

Some excellent advice in this thread and a real tribute to the contributors!

I'm going to say that I feel more comfortable in a tent in winter. A four season tent provides full wind protection and the double walls do add some insulation value. Running a candle lantern and hanging it off the ceiling loop while I set up seems to warm the air a few degrees, although I do blow out the candle after I'm snuggled in.

I'm would echo the excellent advice given earlier of a foam pad bottom and self inflatable (i.e. thermarest or equivalent) on top of that. Its an excellent combo. Adding an emergency blanket (heat sheet or mylar type), reflective side up, between the foam pad and thermarest will give you a little bit extra without much weight.

Another piece of advice on your sleep system is to carry a set of clean/dry long johns (I prefer a polypro unionsuit) that you use Only during sleeping. Make sure you remove all your day cloths which will be wet with sweat before getting into your bag. Next morning, change again. If you have the luxury of fresh clothes to wear the next day then put them inside your bag at your feet. I won't do that with wet cloths used during the day however.

Multiple changes of wool socks are in order. Buy quality wool socks, not the cheap ones. Spending $60 on 3 pair of wool socks is a good investment. Better yet, ask for brand name wool socks for Christmas from family and friends. Lots of people like to give a $20 gift and it is great if you can pick up 3 or 4 pair through multiple hints.

I would echo the shovel, but I would look into the plastic/folding shovels. I don't have too much experience with these and you want something that won't break, but also has more surface area than GI-shovels.

Consider your water source. Snow abounds, but it takes a lot of fuel and a lot of pot volume to melt it. Your 600 mL titanium pot will be okay for water, but it won't be sufficient to melt snow - you will be constantly packing it in. I recommend a 2L aluminum pot with a bail that can be suspended over a camp fire if you are going to melt snow for drinking water. Doing it with a camp stove and tiny pot will take for ever.

Trail mix and chocolate are good things. Chocolate milk is nice especially when mixed in with the starbucks instant coffee.

A wool scarf is very versatile for your neck and face.

Remember that it gets dark very early this time of year and the sun sets fast when it starts to get dark, so set up camp at an appropriate time. Also plan on having stuff to do at camp at dusk. Even if that is just sitting by the fire. Its one of the harder things is the fact that days are so short and you don't really want to go to bed at 8:00 pm. A small piece of foam to sit on is very helpful while at camp to keep you butt dry and warm.

Try not to melt your boots by attempting to warm your feet by the fire. This usually ends up badly. Also be aware of how easily sparks tunnel into synthetics, so if you are sitting by the fire, best to take off that gortex outer. I really like having wool clothing on the outside for firecraft activities. At least if you are going to be spending a lot of time in from of the fire, be conscious of this.

 

[Thomas Linton]

"Consider your water source. Snow abounds, but it takes a lot of fuel and a lot of pot volume to melt it. Your 600 mL titanium pot will be okay for water, but it won't be sufficient to melt snow - you will be constantly packing it in. I recommend a 2L aluminum pot with a bail that can be suspended over a camp fire if you are going to melt snow for drinking water. Doing it with a camp stove and tiny pot will take for ever."

You might also try hanging an old pillow case full of snow close enough to an open fire that the snow begins to melt. (See, "tripod lashing.") The resulting trickle can easily be collected in any container - even a plastic one. The only downside is the resulting wet/frozen bag, but that can be figured out.

Also, many aluminum pots have had their bottoms melted out in the process of trying to turn snow into water. Start with a little snow, rather than packing it in. Add more to the resulting water. Otherwise, the snow may sublimate into gas, leaving a dry pot bottom. Lids are good.

 

[jds1]

Another piece of advice on your sleep system is to carry a set of clean/dry long johns (I prefer a polypro unionsuit) that you use Only during sleeping. Make sure you remove all your day cloths which will be wet with sweat before getting into your bag. Next morning, change again. If you have the luxury of fresh clothes to wear the next day then put them inside your bag at your feet. I won't do that with wet cloths used during the day however.

Multiple changes of wool socks are in order. Buy quality wool socks, not the cheap ones. Spending $60 on 3 pair of wool socks is a good investment. Better yet, ask for brand name wool socks for Christmas from family and friends. Lots of people like to give a $20 gift and it is great if you can pick up 3 or 4 pair through multiple hints.

Good advice kgd. :thumbup: Clean, dry sleeping underwear and fresh socks are a must on a multi-day cold weather hiking trip!

Also, I use a water filter in combo with a stove for melting/purification. Just use the stove to melt the snow, then the filter to do the rest. Saves on fuel and weight.

Sleep with your hat on and boots close to your body. Frozen sweaty boots suck!

Jeff

 

[Barbarossa]

Also, many aluminum pots have had their bottoms melted out in the process of trying to turn snow into water. Start with a little snow, rather than packing it in. Add more to the resulting water. Otherwise, the snow may sublimate into gas, leaving a dry pot bottom. Lids are good.

Always put a little water in the pot with the snow before melting it or you will scorch the crap out of your pot and burn it. The water will taste burnt too. Ever think you could burn snow? My ex could burn anything she tried to cook.

 

[Rick Marchand]

The most important thing I tell everyone to take with them in any conditions is a small notepad and a way to write on it.

Also take a good compass.

Okay, I'll bite... what you got? Am I just lucky to have survived this long without EVER taking notes?

 

[mrgreen]

As already noted, some great ideas here, no surprise. Winter Camping is great, but not cheap. I would suggest, for the first trip, find the local outdoor shop like EMS or REI. Most of them rent gear.
Sorry if I'm repeating someone else's advice. Tried to read the total thread, might have missed some.

 

[redpoint]

Generally things look pretty good. A few add-ons:

1] Given that you're on a 4-5 day trip, one thing I'd recommend is a VBL - vapor barrier liner. It's basically a waterproof sack that you toss in your sleeping bag that catches all the water vapor that your body loses each night. This prevents your insulation from getting progressively damp. I'm not sure why there's the obsession with wool blankets on this site, but they're absorbent and you'd need a crap load to stay warm during the winter in PA - leave them on the couch where they belong. Fine for a summer night, but that's it.

2] With a 0F bag, you should be fine with a Therm-a-rest sleeping pad. I never use any more than that.

3] Gaitors - awesome piece of gear ... didn't notice them mentioned. Essential in the winter.

4] Use a tent - preferably a four season. That will ensure the group is warmer. Rent this.

5] When it's cold use a multifuel stove like an MSR Dragonfly. Canister stoves are terrible in cold weather. Last year, I conducted a test [for fun], and it took almost 1/2 hr to boil 2 litres of water [from snow] in -2C temps at 5500 ft [with a canister stove]. A multifuel stove will do it in a few minutes. Multifuel for winter and altitude, canister for 3 season use. If you're not use to multifuel stoves practice at home [OUTSIDE!!!] - they take some skill to light when cold.

6] Warm parka and fleece pants for around camp.

7] One base layer change - alternate them. Same with socks. I use Patagonia Capilene 3 and Smartwool socks - great stuff. Stuff the damp/used layer in the sleeping bag with you ... they'll be dry by morning.

8] When it's really cold, I like to wear a really thin pair of liner gloves under a pair of warm mitts/gloves. When you need dexterity, you can pop off the mitt and you still have a bit of protection.

9] If it's really cold the camel-bak tube will freeze, stick to the nalgene.

As others have mentioned, I'd do a weekend "shake-down" trip prior to embarking on a 5 day.

 

[sadiejane]

have only ever had the mouthpiece to my camelbak freeze(talking 0 temps) and if its that cold i carry a spare in a baggy in my pocket. the insulated tube(and bladder) has never frozen on me yet. and ive done mtn bike rides off road at nite below 0. and day hikes in the 0-10 degree range. have had the mouth piece freeze but never hard as im always drinking. in really cold temps i do stick the mouthpiece inside my clothing somewhere to keep it warmer(be sure to not pinch the slit open as water will flow-deadly in the right/wrong conditions)just right inside the front of yr jacket/coat is enuf.

 

[redpoint]

have only ever had the mouthpiece to my camelbak freeze(talking 0 temps) and if its that cold i carry a spare in a baggy in my pocket. the insulated tube(and bladder) has never frozen on me yet. and ive done mtn bike rides off road at nite below 0. and day hikes in the 0-10 degree range. have had the mouth piece freeze but never hard as im always drinking. in really cold temps i do stick the mouthpiece inside my clothing somewhere to keep it warmer(be sure to not pinch the slit open as water will flow-deadly in the right/wrong conditions)just right inside the front of yr jacket/coat is enuf.

The insulated ones are probably fine. Every time I use a non-insulated one, I say to myself: "I must be vigilant and keep it inside my jacket...", but I always forget and it freezes solid.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Always put a little water in the pot with the snow before melting it or you will scorch the crap out of your pot and burn it. The water will taste burnt too. Ever think you could burn snow? My ex could burn anything she tried to cook.

"but all she can do is fuss and holler, she don't even know how to boil water."

 

[Ron Athay]

Not sure where I read in this thread to take chocolate. Not at high altitude or real cold. Chocolate takes oxygen and drys out the mouth. Much better off with hard tack candy for energy. Learned this from the hard core winter campers the four years I lived in Alaska. I tought winter survival and igloo building at the amatuer (i.e. boy scout) level for twenty years. I have slept comfortably seven times igloos at sub-zero temps. Most of what has been said here is spot on. Especially about no cotton and testing your gear in a cold but safe setting (near a lodge or car). The life boat when testing new gear is of course a function of your experience level. We actually avoided serious results on two occasions with "scouts" by having a close "life boat". Warm lodge and warm food saves lives. Again we are talking small bodied amatuers.

 

[tomcrx]

Most of this is winter backpacking oriented

Layers, Layers, Layers. I never carried a lot of spares. Spare pair of polyprop long johns and plenty of spare socks thats it. I usually kept the same clothes on all trip and this is for days to weeks.

Remember you will be burning 1000's of calories just keeping warm so caloric dense foods are a must. peanut butter is great, butter, etc .. and remember when is cold you can carry things like bacon etc with out worry of spoiling.

Insulation..I only carried one mat but I use a vapor barrier when sleeping

White gas is a must do NOT depend on fires at all

Sleep with your boots in your bag...frozen laces suck

The best energy drink is Cherry Jello powder mixed with hot water...keeps you going.

Plan your route and if you have to make a mistake in your packing...then overpack food and fuel

Drink,Drink,Drink. always do a boil up when you stop. You will dehydrate a lot faster then you think.

Shelter..I always used a Black Diamond pyramid with groups

 

[Bushman5]

if you want to stay blistering hot at nihgt when you turn in, make Sherpa Tea

basically very strong orange or black tea, (or any tea really....)

add a 3/4" thick slice of butter (use lots) and a bunch of sugar or honey into the tea. Mix well, drink (tastes sweet)

the butter is high fat and a all night fuel for your body.

i am also partial to seal blubber.

 

[baldtaco-II]

Thanks you all the great advice! I knew I'd get some good info here, but I've got more than I thought I would! I probably will end up printing out this thread and passing it out to the guys going with me! So thankyou all!

Its a 4 or 5 day trip, however long it takes us to traverse the 42 mile Black Forest Trail in central PA. Its still a month or so away, so its hard to say whether there will be snow or not, but having lived in the area for the last ten years I doubt there will be more than a light covering of snow on the ground.
There will be either 3 or 4 of us, and as it stands now, we have one good 2 man tent, and the other guy(s) will either need to get a tent or buy a bivvy.

Because of the your advice Im looking at picking up the exped down mat, and some good winter boots. I was going to try to make do with some crappy boots I had laying around , thanks for setting me straight!

@Fmajor007: great info about the union suit and wallmart synth tshirt! that'll save me some money!! Picking that up today. Will I need the gaitors if I don't expect alot of snow?

Having had a quick peek at your intended location I'll add this to what I said before:

I found a bunch of reports saying that the trails there are popular and very well marked along the way, although a bit rugged. I recommend you get a pair of walking poles for sure. No need to go nuts. Don't know what you have access to but they range in price here from “more money than sense”, “a pair of Karrimor for £15” and “generic £5 each in a cheap shop”. Either of the latter will do you handsomely. Super light and squeeze up out the way when you don't want to use them. Neither of these things can be said for a branch you might pick up on route, and you'll need to keep finding two new ones because you ditched the last two when they became a drag.

Pennsylvania low temps for January are between -3C and -8C. Hardly the Arctic but reinforces what I said about either replacing or getting something to ramp up your existing sleeping bag. Daytime-wise, provided you have a decent fleece and thermals under a good shell all should be groovy. [To compare notes, those are exactly the temperatures I am roaming around in at the moment. I do 3-5 miles cross country here every day of the year rain or shine, just because I have a responsibility to mah dog. Right now the snow is thick on the ground so I am doing more the 5 than the 3 just because I love it]. Do take an extra fleece or a duvet jacket and whatnot for lounging around camp though.

Gaiters - Wouldn't be caught without mine. You're right to sort your boots out rather than make do too.
Pleased to here you're going to sort out the mat situation. Like I said, it's imperative. Also consider something smaller about A4 size just for sitting on at quick rest stops. Again, another thing I wouldn't be caught without.

On the stove issue I stand by what I said. I use two stoves – a dedicated liquid fuel stove and a stove that runs on either remote canisters or liquid fuel. Unless you are at high altitude a good remote canister stove will be very convenient at the temps you are likely to encounter. I shall be using one myself here today, in the snow, at -3C, for convenience running on a canister. I'm not certain but I think lambertiana has one of the ones that mtwarden pointed at. I take both those guys seriously and the forum is littered with photos of their exploits. Take a bunch of tinfoil to make wind-shields with though no matter which you pick.
Consider a tiny candle lantern that runs on those little night-light candles. Cold is hell on batteries both your torch and your camera. I like little LED lanterns about the size of a bog-roll but I usually have a little candle job somewhere in mah gear too.
Nocturnal enuresis – plastic kiddies cola bottle works a treat. Magi-marker with a big P on it or something so nobody drinks from it.
Cooking with butter is a good idea to some extent but so is winding a bunch of suet in stuff. For the length of your trip and the conditions I wouldn't get especially hung up on any of that. Just be sure to have a bunch of high calorie stuff you like and enjoy yourself.
Spare gloves and hat. Someone is likely to get theirs wet or lose it/them or something. If you're the guy taking the lead on this trip they could be handy for someone else as well as you. I always carry spares anyway.

Enough from me. Hope you post pics when you're done.

 

[neeman]

how cold will it be?


remember:
Boots and water bottle in the foot of your sleeping bag so they do not freeze
Melt your breakfast water the night before.

 

[Any Cal.]

I usually take a sled in winter, but only when it there is enough snow. Otherwise, they suck. That being said, my winter gear usually weighs 42ish lbs, so the only thing I have more of is space compared to a pack.

Double wall tents are nice, they get quite a bit warmer compared to outside temps. (Oh, Eureka makes some good 3.5 season tents that are priced well and fairly light and spacious.)

The little vacuum bottles are nice, depending on how much crap you are taking already. They can help you make better time on the trail if you fill them first thing in the morning.

Bring a big bag of granola or something, and a full bottle of water. It is easier to keep your energy up and stay warm when you have a steady supply of food and water going in while hiking.

It takes very little clothing to stay warm when you're moving. I usually have 2 layers down to 0F, but then break out more as soon as I stop. The big thing is to make sure your legs, head, and hands are well insulated, since they lose heat badly. Don't wear a pair of pants and a big huge parka... it won't work.

I usually take two stoves, like mentioned above. A Jetboil works well for making hot tea quickly for a whole group. Only one person has to dig the stove out of their pack on a break.

If you will be doing fires, buy a cheap bowsaw and something to split or baton with.

Wear a hat and long johns in your sleeping bag.

If you don't have room in your tent for gear, use on of your black garbage bags to stow your pack in outside. Or you can hang them on a tree with cord, and put a poncho over them.

I like to keep a knife, a lighter, and a flashlight in my pockets all the time, as you will need them constantly in the winter.

A nice headlamp, like a PT EOS, is really nice to have, and could be a key piece of survival equipment, depending on the conditions.

Take the garbage bags or poncho, you never know when the gently falling snow will turn to a nasty, bone-chilling rain.