Winter Camping, What gear do I need?

I'll be honest here... I don't think I would put my boots into my sleeping bag. Heck, I won't even wear the same socks to bed.

Ski
 
ohski said:
I'll be honest here... I don't think I would put my boots into my sleeping bag. Heck, I won't even wear the same socks to bed.

Ski
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in the winter sometimes you have no choice, frozen boots = :(

take your sleeping bag stuff sack and turn inside out, stuff your wet boots in there and then the stuff sack in the foot of your sleeping bag- in the AM a couple of warmed nalgene bottles placed inside for a bit will make your feet much happier :)

definitely don't wear wet socks to bed, should have spare dry ones just for that- wet socks can be dried pretty efficiently by putting them on your chest- an alternative is put them in a stuff sack and place between your sleeping bag and pad
 
Another thing that may be obvious to most (I made this mistake for many years). Don't put your head into the sleeping bag when you get cold, when you exhale you will be putting a TON of moisture into your bag then you will get cold... Guaranteed! Instead put a beenie type hat on, or I have even taken a Balaclava and worn that in extreme cold. Also spread your sleeping bag out early this will allow the filler to loft and trap more heat, If you pull it out of the stuff bag right when you go to bed it will take a while to Fluff up. I dread Mummy sleeping bags cause I like to sleep on my side and they make this very uncomfortable, I have tried Rectangle bags and had worse nights due to cold... I have learned to tolerate the Mummy bag these days.
 
Oh, reading about the balaclava reminded me of another thing. Bring one! :D I often wear a beanie, but still bring a balaclava along. It works well in case you lose your hat, as a second hat, to keep your neck warm, and you can let your Mountain House steep in it so it doesn't cool too much in 10 minutes before you eat it.

PLEASE, make sure the seal on the Mountain House is tight, or when you pick it up it will spill all over your balaclava, lap, and sleeping pad... at least that's what I have heard. :D
 
Right now it's around 37F 59%RH. dew point 24F. Predicted low 26F.

One thing to remember not all winters are created equal.

I wanted to ask more about VBs. I'm not sure I need one, or what conditions would warrant. When do you need one?

Sounds like a nasty wet night, but it's better than freezing a few days later. -should drying time be impossible


What about using a space blanket cut and taped to make a bag or just using the bag type?
 
Briarbrow said:
Right now it's around 37F 59%RH. dew point 24F. Predicted low 26F.

One thing to remember not all winters are created equal.

I wanted to ask more about VBs. I'm not sure I need one, or what conditions would warrant. When do you need one?

Sounds like a nasty wet night, but it's better than freezing a few days later. -should drying time be impossible


What about using a space blanket cut and taped to make a bag or just using the bag type?
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Hey Briarbrow,

"Not all winters are equal" is SOOO true!

OK, so as to VBL's, i use mine anytime it's cold enough outside to warrant a "heavy" sleeping bag (say below freezing). What it does is keep "incidental" perspiration and skin oil which is constantly oozing from your skin out of your sleeping bag insulation. This happens in the micro-climate inside your sleeping bag where the perspiration can condense on the inside surface of the outer-most layer of your sleeping bag shell. From there, the moisture continues to condense and eventually saturates the insulation. If it's cold enough, that condensation can freeze - right inside your sleeping bag - talk about cold!!! You'd be sleeping inside a freezer.

This very thing happened to Admiral Richard Byrd on one of his expeditions to Antarctica. He was using very heavy synthetic-insulation sleeping bags, iirc initial wgt was 14lbs, but by the end of the expedition they weighed over 50lbs. I can't remember where i read this or i'd cite the source.

Also, RE: sleeping bags - i prefer a bag with a moisture resistant shell - maybe a laminated shell (like Gore Dryloft/Windstopper) or some coated shell (can't think of an example sorry). They're usually a bit more, but frost from your breath condenses/freezes on your bag through the night. I spent a -30F evening near Mt. Marcy in Upstate NY and in the morning was greeted with a very heavy coating of frost inside my tent (Integral Designs MKIII heavily customized) and on my bag (Western Mountaineering Puma Dryloft). I used my WM Hot Sac and it performed admirably, but it was very humid (i failed to open my vents enough).

BTW, you can get a "sealed, coated nylon" VBL at Campmor for like $25 - i'm gonna pick one up in a few weeks for one of my kits (the old VBL is toast). Personally, i use a Western Mountaineering "Hot Sac" VBL (wayyy too spendy though it does a good job), but i'm really curious to see how well the Campmor sack does. Not too much to risk and if it's a flop and it can be relegated to the another category for more "inventive" uses!!!

Honestly, i'm looking long and hard at Integral Designs HVBL (hooded vapor barrier liner) - though it's pretty spendy @ $85.

I also read where someone mentioned a candle lantern. OK, this is very much an accessory, but for me a long-time favored luxury!!! I have a couple and at least one goes on *every* trip - regardless of season. I *love* the light they put off. They are heavy, so i skimp in other areas.

Also, i when i load up, i put my sleeping bag in a huge, 3-mil leaf bag and then use some simple "fas-tex" buckles to compress it (the compression bags you can buy are nice, but a good bit more expensive than a trash bag and some straps).

OK, again sorry for the text wall. I'm hoping this info is somewhat helpful in an already info-packed thread!!! There are some *very* knowledgeble Folks in this community. WOW!

frank
 
mtwarden said:
in the winter sometimes you have no choice, frozen boots = :(

take your sleeping bag stuff sack and turn inside out, stuff your wet boots in there and then the stuff sack in the foot of your sleeping bag
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Now this I can see... thanks.

Ski
 
fmajor007 said:
This very thing happened to Admiral Richard Byrd on one of his expeditions to Antarctica. He was using very heavy synthetic-insulation sleeping bags, iirc initial wgt was 14lbs, but by the end of the expedition they weighed over 50lbs. I can't remember where i read this or i'd cite the source.
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It was that dude that had the site that sold the VB bags... :D I thought I remembered something about it being in a dogsled race or something.

Here is a site, http://www.andrewskurka.com/advice/technique/vaporbarrierliners.php that looks like the dude has been there done that on VBL stuff, if anyone is interested.

I have seen them, but for my uses in cold weather it is useless... well, it was until just a minute ago...:D.
 
Andrew is the real deal :)

for shorter trips a VBL is probably not necessary, I can see real advantages for longer trips

the exception might be footwear, that seems to get wet regardless (usually sweat, sometimes moisture from snow)- a thin sock, VBL, wool sock combo might go along way in keeping boots dry

for day trips probably unnecessary, even overnighters might be worth considering
 
VBL have their use but they imply you'll sleep in your own sweat and body odors. Something you probably want to avoid unless you're forced into (although I'd do it in a emergency).
 
If the tops of your boots are placed under your sleeping bag, they typically do not freeze, and you can get them on. Its the rock-hard tops that prevent sliding your feet down into the boot.

I use VB's only when required by conditions. I hear you can carefully balance ventilation to prevent sweating, but I seem to end up in a warm swamp, making it unpleasant to get going in the morning when the cold, dry air hits the damp surfaces of clothing or skin.

Sandwiching socks between two VB's overcomes both sweat and leaking boots.
 
I used to wear two pairs of railroad socks with a vegetable sack sandwiched between them in rubber boots for work in cold weather. It was fine down to the 20s. The outer sock was always dry, and the inner one was always soaked.

Now I wear black army cold weather boots, and they are rubber, so don't freeze solid or lose their insulation due to sweat or water/snow over the top.

I don't like the idea of the VBL stuff, but can see how it would be an issue in the cold. Normally, at 0ish, I have 2 thinner layers on, and often get frost on the outside of them. For me, it is a non issue because I have another layer to put on when I stop, which stays dry because it is not on most of the time. I can see though, how it could be an issue if you were trying to make every ounce of clothing count, or were on a long trip where frost in the insulation would only make the problem worsen over time.

It seems like it might be a good idea also for trying to make the most of a very marginal bunch of equipment, also. I am considering it testing it for an upcoming trip where I will be far beyond the limits of my 15* bag.
 
I think I'll have a much better opinion of VB in the coming weeks. I cannot picture myself in coated nylon. I dislike the material in general especially smell of it.

I have reasoned the lightest material would be the easiest to dry. My jacket and bag are made of thin stuff. While I've never been out extended in really cold weather dry time has always worked for me. It's not like I'm on a summit bid where every moment is either spent on the go or in the bag. I have time to go smooth and easy.

It's been a good trade swapping the old trash bag for AMK emergency bivvy -weight and especially bulk for something I hardly use.

It would be interesting to see what conditions would have vapor condense outside the bag if the bivvy is exterior,(outside the bag but inside the waterproof bivvy?maybe it doesnt work like that?) and just how swimming it is if the bivvy was used within the bag.

Is there something I'm missing on why the amkEB would not make an ok VB
 
^ it would work perfectly as a VB, but it's going to be awfully crinkly and probably not as comfortable as some of the commercially available ones, but it certainly would work as well

most of my winter camping is 2-3 days in length, so a little loss of loft isn't a large concern for me- if I was trekking for a week or longer- I think it would be something I'd consider for the sleeping bag

I still might play w/ a VBL w/ my boots though- dry boots, even on a 2-3 day trip, would be nice :)
 
@Fmajor007: I just got my fleece union suit you recommended in the mail yesterday, looks good, thanks for the suggestion. I wanted to ask you about the gaitors you suggested, Would I need them If I was planning on getting waterproof pants to wear over the union suit? Is this an OK idea? Thanks again for the input.

Thanks everyone for all the recommendations you've been providing, I'll be slowly building on my gear list and I'll let you know what gear I settle on. So far I've added a Vacuum flask I got off amazon, 3 pairs of thick wool socks, the aforementioned union suit, and I decided to go with a jetboil stove, with the understanding that I'll need to keep it warm. After I showed my brother, who will be going on the trip too, this thread he told me that he's planning on getting me a sleeping pad for christmas, so we'll see what he picks up for me.Still in the market for boots, a water filter, gaiters or waterproof pants. I'll post a large list of my gear when I get it all sorted out.

Thanks alot!
 
Gaiters help protect the vulnerable junction between trousers and boots. In deep snow, even waterproof trousers can be pushed up, allowing snow to get in - and melt. As gaiters are anchored under the sole of your boots, they will not be pushed up.
 
Ok I got it now, so their ideal for deep snow situations. Thanks for the info!

Any opinions about boots? Insulated uninsulated, any specific brand? If I got noninsulated hiking boots, I could use the same pair even all year round, but would they be warm enough?
 
weeblewooble said:
Ok I got it now, so their ideal for deep snow situations. Thanks for the info!

Any opinions about boots? Insulated uninsulated, any specific brand? If I got noninsulated hiking boots, I could use the same pair even all year round, but would they be warm enough?
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Also good for keeping trouser cuffs from swooshing against wet grass and brush.
 
weeblewooble said:
Ok I got it now, so their ideal for deep snow situations. Thanks for the info!

Any opinions about boots? Insulated uninsulated, any specific brand? If I got noninsulated hiking boots, I could use the same pair even all year round, but would they be warm enough?
Click to expand...

depends on temps really- 30's you'd probably be fine w/ uninsulated, below you probably want insulated

if it's really cold, boots w/ removable liners are nice (the liners can be dried pretty easily)- Baffin makes several models- many that are hiking/snowshoe orientated- I'd only choose these if it's really cold

for snowshoeing a lot of folks use their normal hiking boots combined w/ a overboot http://www.40below.com/product_detail_public.php?ProductID=4400- they are tall enough that they would suffice as gaiters as well

very warm, not sure how they would handle hiking (w/o snowshoes though)
 
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