Woods knife- my philosophy.

Micro-Bevel, you have made one of the most lucid and logical posts I've seen in a very long time. You are spot on, about our ancestors and what they made do with. All too often on these type of foums, it all boils down to the toys. All about the toys. But the brutal truth of the matter is, emergency's don't always happen when you go for a hike with you Maxpedition whatever bulging with survival toys. Emma ( Granny) Gatewood hiked the entire length of the A.T. with less gear than some of the forumites carry for a walk in a state park.

A few years ago, I had the chance to be at the Smithsonian Museum here in Washington D.C. and saw the stuff that Otzi the iceman had carriied. Wasn't much there. Yet he lived in a far more hostile and primitive world than we can imagine. If he hadn't been shot in the back by that arrow, he'd have walked off into history without us ever knowing that he existed.

There was no computers or foums when I was growing up back in the 1940's and 50's. So I guess the outdoorsmen of the era didn't know how under equipted they were. But they all carried certain stuff in their pockets, and a modest size sheath knife. But they knew what to do when they couldn't make it back to camp that evening, and they were quite capable of making themselves at home in the woods for the night.

Great post, Micro-Bevel.:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Carl.
 
You seem to want a one knife scenario

If you look at function, and not name the knife type, it might be clearer
There is fine cutting, and then battoning and chopping
And you want one knife (a 'woods' knife) to perform these functions

I do not want a single knife that is mutli functional
I am happy to have a knife for fine cutting and that will not be subjected to hitting for battoning and therefore a rat tang is fine
And then an axe or hatchet that I will chop or batton
And a slipjoint
 
Skrapmetal said:
I do have to say that while I haven't found the perfect "just one knife" blade for me... I have high hopes that the Koster M.U.C.K. I have coming this summer could be just that.

( If you haven't heard of it: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/762637-M.U.C.K.-2nd-Run-in-CPM-3V-Official-List )

Still... even with that on my belt I'll still have something small in my pocket or pack.
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Of course, this is assuming you have time to plan ahead, correct? What if you dont have this chance? Do you think you could do well with just the M.U.C.K?
 
Micro-Bevel said:
Of course, this is assuming you have time to plan ahead, correct? What if you dont have this chance? Do you think you could do well with just the M.U.C.K?
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Absolutely. I would prefer a small companion for detail work, but I would do fine without it.
 
In the last few years of cutting stuff, buying knives, discussing with friends, and learning, I've settled on a few ideas. First, the definitions: Survival knife, a knife that has all of the capabilities/strength needed to aid in a life threatening situation without too much consideration for the knife, ie strong enough that I can't get to its limits without being really dumb. Bushcraft: cutting wood, delicately or not. Camp knife: food prep.

For me, where I camp, its either cord-wood or stove. no shelters to be built, no firewood to collect. I've found that while a big chopper is nice, an ax is better. No nice straight grain birch, just old knotty salvage pine.

Once that is settled, then the needed size of the knife drops way down. For general bushcraft, handle egros become the main consideration, so for the most part SAKs and other folders are not ideal, they work, and work well, but of all my knives, the handles are best on the fixed blades.

For food prep, I like something that can slice, dice, and peel. Oddly the best knife I have to fit all three tasks is my Mora 2k. I wish it was my RC-3, I like it better (mostly because I paid more). It is close but for food prep, the RC-3 is not quite as good a slicer, I think due to the coating. Both are super tough, fit my hand, and are useful. Sure the Mora might not be as tough as the RC, but I feel that there is a point where making the knife stronger doesn't matter any more. If I'm never going to get to the limits of a Mora, why spend the cash for a Busskin, or even a Becker? (because I want to, but that isn't the point)

To conclude, the knife you carry is a refection of your preference, skills, and environment. I think that you hit it right on the head micro-bevel, it is important to carry what you want, not what you think you "should" or what is the current fad.
I will continue to carry my best/favorite locking folder, belt knife, ax, slipjoint, SAK, Plier-multitool, and whatever else happens to sneak its way into my pockets, because I can, and its fun, but also knowing that any one of those will get me by in any situation that I can reasonably get myself out of, if ya know what I mean.
 
Dan, that is a 10 inch blade A2 blade with green Micarta scales. Tim Olt made it for me. It is .26 thick, and a chopping machine.
BC154.jpg


Micro-Bevel, the CABS is an amazingly effective woods knife. The convex edge, INFI steel, and a most excellent Bocote wood handle by Russ Mikolajczyk are a hard combo to beat.
Busse1A.jpg
 
I used to carry some serious blades , nothing expensive , mostly self made , able to cut open drums and cars tho
then I got some back injuries that sidelined me a few years , that made me rethink my carry knives .. it wasnt near so much fun to carry stuff I couldnt use ..or any sense in it either really
I am near back to normal , mobilitywise now , nearly back to normal musclewise .. but my carry is still light duty , not because I still cant use the big gear effectively , but because I dont need to carry it and Im having plenty of fun now with light gear . maybe its got to do with getting older too or something ...
 
Myal said:
I used to carry some serious blades , nothing expensive , mostly self made , able to cut open drums and cars tho
then I got some back injuries that sidelined me a few years , that made me rethink my carry knives .. it wasnt near so much fun to carry stuff I couldnt use ..or any sense in it either really
I am near back to normal , mobilitywise now , nearly back to normal musclewise .. but my carry is still light duty , not because I still cant use the big gear effectively , but because I dont need to carry it and Im having plenty of fun now with light gear . maybe its got to do with getting older too or something ...
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I hope you get better.

Possibility- when you were unable to carry your larger blades, and made do with the smaller ones, were you forced to adapt to the smaller blade, and maybe, did you get to the point where your proficiency with the smaller blade actually made your larger blades unnecessary?
 
I did adapt some , I also seen that a lot of what I was doing , just didnt need to be done , it was nice to have done ,but wasnt essential
instead of cutting wood to length for the fire , just shove the branch along as it burns down .. stuff like the leanto for shelter didnt get done at all unless it was needed instead of because I could make it ..

I got a doctor who listened , took anintrest and yeah in a couple weeks Im walking around now with that odd feeling of lack of pain ... weird feeling but a good one
 
Myal said:
I did adapt some , I also seen that a lot of what I was doing , just didnt need to be done , it was nice to have done ,but wasnt essential
instead of cutting wood to length for the fire , just shove the branch along as it burns down .. stuff like the leanto for shelter didnt get done at all unless it was needed instead of because I could make it ..

I got a doctor who listened , took anintrest and yeah in a couple weeks Im walking around now with that odd feeling of lack of pain ... weird feeling but a good one
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I'm happy to hear that :)

As far as the shelter- could the lean to be a type of shelter that is optimized for larger blades? Are there other types of shelters that could be more readily made in your part of the world? I imagine, given the right circumstances and favorable conditions, a teepee like shelter could be made by gathering dead, straight wood, and lacing it with brushes and vines to strengthen it, then piling on dead leaves, moss, and debris.

I have not tried this method yet.
 
I used to try to make the lean to look kinda text book
I am over that now ... I dont care what it looks like now as long as it keeps the rain mostly outside , Im happy

Im good with laying up next to a big log on the dryside with a bit of a roof made of whatever to help keep the dryside dry or using an overhang , or even wrapping up in a tarp and waiting the rain out

Ill use whatever is laying around as much as possible without cutting it to length just for looks sake

My cousin calls it using my brain not brawn ...
 
Great OP!!

At this time I'm going to hold to my premise that to be able to do all jobs well, you need at least TWO blades -- a large one (axe, tomahawk, machete kukri, BFK) and a smaller one. EVERY primitive culture I've looked at adopted this philosophy. Even going back to Oetzi, since he's been brought up, yes, he carried few things, but he did have his copper headed axe (much like the CS Trail Hawk in shape and size) and his small knife.

As for the "It's the knife you have with you!" popular theory, I've yet to hear how one would be in the wilderness, either for recreation, where you would:
A.) Be able to carry a blade (i.e. the type of knife to survive after a plane crash is moot)
B.) NOT be able to choose what you have with you.

So, it's not a matter of chance, the knife you have with you is the knife YOU CHOSE.

What YOU choose must be correct for your area (an axe isn't a great choice for the Everglades, for instance), for your projected uses, and for your style. Not everything is determined by practicality.

As for my choice, I like the kukri design best. It does the job of the machete, the axe and BFK all in one. They come in all sizes and weights, although I prefer the larger ones. Couple that with a decent fixed blade knife of more general use, and I can do anything I need to do in the woods.

I've gone through many, many models of kukri, and I keep coming back to the HI CAK as the best option for me.
20CAK02.jpg


I usually have been carrying an HI R-10 knife to go with it.
R101.jpg


Although I've been using a Busse CABS extensively over the past months, and I think it will replace the R-10 as my primary knife when I get the sheath I want made for it.

As far as the question of "Will you really have it with you?" goes, the answer is yes. I had this rig made up to carry both kukri and knife:
Quickdraw01.jpg


The sheath for the CABS will also be able to slip on the baldric strap and be carried right on the rig. So, even if I don't have my pack on, I will have my set of blades.
 
Cpl Punishment said:
Great OP!!

At this time I'm going to hold to my premise that to be able to do all jobs well, you need at least TWO blades -- a large one (axe, tomahawk, machete kukri, BFK) and a smaller one. EVERY primitive culture I've looked at adopted this philosophy. Even going back to Oetzi, since he's been brought up, yes, he carried few things, but he did have his copper headed axe (much like the CS Trail Hawk in shape and size) and his small knife.
Click to expand...
I've pretty much adopted a two blade system too. I've done the trinity and find that I just don't use the third blade at all. Seems the best thing for me is a small fixed blade or folder and a hawk/hatchet. I'd like to do the "survival knife" but only because it's somehow cooler. I've also found that a hawk tucked under the belt is actually pretty comfy to carry.
 
My Booshway is still the closest I've come to finding my ' do it all ' knife. It's thin enough to slice yet still sturdy enough to batton/pry and heavy enough to chop.Sure a typical Bushcraft blade will be better for carving trap parts etc but I find that I can rough chop 60% of my traps....sticks to length, points etc.....I can't do that with a bushcrafter.
The Booshway being shaped liked a heavy duty butchers knife also slices food stuff better that your typical scandi bushcraft blade.
It rides pretty high so with a t-shirt over my pants it dissapears and yet still seems enough knife for any adventure.

p4130012p.jpg

By pitdog2010 at 2011-04-13

People have commented that it reminds them of a Becker etc but in truth the blade tapers far more than your typical heavy duty survival knives~

pa210012.jpg

By pitdog2010 at 2010-10-21
 
I too use a two blade system. Generaly one of my Kukri's or my custom by Tad Lynch for the chopper and any of several 5" avg. sized blades as the smaller blade. Nearly always have a pocket knife on me as well.

My choices are based on a few decades of hard won experience. While I honestly could get on just fine with only a 4-5" blade it would take much more work just doing the basic tasks of building shelter and processing wood enough to keep warm. That is time and calories spent in a survival situation that NEED to be expended in establishing a trap line and other needs. Most folks who live in a primitive manner have ALL adopted a two blade system of steel tools over flint with good reason. Efficiency .
 
Cpl Punishment said:
Great OP!!


As for the "It's the knife you have with you!" popular theory, I've yet to hear how one would be in the wilderness, either for recreation, where you would:
A.) Be able to carry a blade (i.e. the type of knife to survive after a plane crash is moot)
B.) NOT be able to choose what you have with you.

So, it's not a matter of chance, the knife you have with you is the knife YOU CHOSE.

.
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This is assuming your trip into the wilderness is planned in advance and is intended for recreation. That is not always the case. Unless you are one of the lucky few who is properly equipped at all times, with the VERY superior 2 or 3 knife system, it is possible to find oneself in the woods inadequately prepared. Most people, myself included, do not have the luxury of always having the 3 blade system on us. So, we must substitute skill- and even skill only goes so far.

As far as 'native peoples' who have adopted the 3 or 2 blade style, they LIVE in the bush. They are not either stuck in an office cubicle or running erands all day. They are prepared at all times because they live what they are prepared for.

Like I mentioned earlier- not all of us live in the bush :)
 
pitdog said:
My Booshway is still the closest I've come to finding my ' do it all ' knife. It's thin enough to slice yet still sturdy enough to batton/pry and heavy enough to chop.Sure a typical Bushcraft blade will be better for carving trap parts etc but I find that I can rough chop 60% of my traps....sticks to length, points etc.....I can't do that with a bushcrafter.
The Booshway being shaped liked a heavy duty butchers knife also slices food stuff better that your typical scandi bushcraft blade.
It rides pretty high so with a t-shirt over my pants it dissapears and yet still seems enough knife for any adventure.

p4130012p.jpg

By pitdog2010 at 2011-04-13

People have commented that it reminds them of a Becker etc but in truth the blade tapers far more than your typical heavy duty survival knives~

pa210012.jpg

By pitdog2010 at 2010-10-21
Click to expand...

That grind is perfect! Wow (:

Did you make it?
 
Micro, that's a well thought out and articulate OP.

I've spent a fair amount of time contemplating this issue over the last eight years. My initial choices were cringe-worthy naive. I've experimented with heavy Bowie knives, light Bowies, combat knives, butcher knives, bolo knives, machetes, "survival" knives, and so on, including several different Mora knives.

My meager "collection" includes things like '70s Gerber outdoor knives, scouts, campers, slipjoints, lockbacks, a few "tactical" folders, and an assortment of fixed blades. I've spent way too many hours online perusing evaluations, discussions, explanations, and the like. I (still) spend an unhealthy amount of time at knife counters harassing the counter guys, fondling stuff, and asking dumb questions.

Out of all this, I've reached some of my own conclusions, and in large measure they line up with yours, with some caveats.

First, in the "what you have with you" department, we have two distinct possibilities: either I'm in my truck or I am for some reason separated from it. My truck is my hardware store and, as I've outlined recently, it's got a fair range of cutting tools stashed in it. Should I be away from the truck and somehow be denied access to my trove of cutlery, I nonetheless have about my person never less than three knives, and usually more like five or six.

My vocation as a geek leads me to have a Leatherman Wave on my belt pretty much all the time. Likewise, on the other hip of that same belt is a full-sized folder. Right at this moment, that's an EKA Swede 92, a very competent outdoor folder that I rate fairly close to a fixed blade. Generally there's a medium folder, like a Buck Vantage in a pocket and a Stockman or other slipjoint in another pocket. And, if I'm wearing cargo pants (98% of the time) there's also an EKA/Wenger SAK with me as well. So, assuming I was riding with a friend and we got stranded, that's what I would typically have with me.

The Swede 92 is an amazingly versatile knife, and it's pretty much become my favorite full-sized folder. I frequently carry it's brother, the Nordic T8, which is really nice and I like it a lot, but the Swede 92 just works for me. That belt pouch will also (depending on the day) have a Buck 110, Case large Sod Buster, Benchmade Steigerwalt, or Kershaw Northside in it. In other words, I will always have a 3.5-to-4 inch blade with me.


I can't entirely agree with Cpl Punishment's remark about winding up in the wilderness without having the opportunity to choose what one is carrying.

Mostly? Yes, if I'm out in the woods, I probably chose to be there, and I've geared up appropriately. But not always. I live in North Idaho, and wilderness is the default condition up here. Sure, I spend most of my time in town (working in an office or at home), but driving up here can easily involve dirt roads with one-car-per-hour (or less) traffic. The driver's handbook for Idaho actually stipulates that you should have a knife in the car as standard equipment. When I lived in the Reno/Tahoe area, the environment was quite similar. It was common enough to have someone stranded in the mountains with less-than-minimum equipment. No, they didn't mean to go camping, it just worked out that way. And sometimes it works out that way in four feet of snow.

Consequently I try not to assume that I'll have advance warning and the opportunity to select equipment.


It's a good bet that, in an emergency away from home, I'll have whatever's in the truck, and that's it. If I'm riding with someone else, it'll be whatever's in his truck.


For those adventures that I get to plan? Yeah, then I get to rummage around and pick out whichever big blade suits my sensibilities du jour, and that might well be the Järvenpää Leuku/Puukko combo set or one of the other large knives with a Mora as adjunct.

I have a kukri and something like a Hoodlum in my future, but that will probably require money, so it will wait for now.


It took an unfortunately long time to overcome my prejudices, and that delay has proved expensive, as some of the knives I finally settled on had doubled in price while I was fussing around with fads and naive "oh, shiny!" infatuations.

I may never be "done," but at least I now have a prayer of being adequately equipped if the gods decide it's my day to be tormented.

 
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