Woods knife- my philosophy.

Micro, that's a well thought out and articulate OP.

I've spent a fair amount of time contemplating this issue over the last eight years. My initial choices were cringe-worthy naive. I've experimented with heavy Bowie knives, light Bowies, combat knives, butcher knives, bolo knives, machetes, "survival" knives, and so on, including several different Mora knives.

My meager "collection" includes things like '70s Gerber outdoor knives, scouts, campers, slipjoints, lockbacks, a few "tactical" folders, and an assortment of fixed blades. I've spent way too many hours online perusing evaluations, discussions, explanations, and the like. I (still) spend an unhealthy amount of time at knife counters harassing the counter guys, fondling stuff, and asking dumb questions.

Out of all this, I've reached some of my own conclusions, and in large measure they line up with yours, with some caveats.

First, in the "what you have with you" department, we have two distinct possibilities: either I'm in my truck or I am for some reason separated from it. My truck is my hardware store and, as I've outlined recently, it's got a fair range of cutting tools stashed in it. Should I be away from the truck and somehow be denied access to my trove of cutlery, I nonetheless have about my person never less than three knives, and usually more like five or six.

My vocation as a geek leads me to have a Leatherman Wave on my belt pretty much all the time. Likewise, on the other hip of that same belt is a full-sized folder. Right at this moment, that's an EKA Swede 92, a very competent outdoor folder that I rate fairly close to a fixed blade. Generally there's a medium folder, like a Buck Vantage in a pocket and a Stockman or other slipjoint in another pocket. And, if I'm wearing cargo pants (98% of the time) there's also an EKA/Wenger SAK with me as well. So, assuming I was riding with a friend and we got stranded, that's what I would typically have with me.

The Swede 92 is an amazingly versatile knife, and it's pretty much become my favorite full-sized folder. I frequently carry it's brother, the Nordic T8, which is really nice and I like it a lot, but the Swede 92 just works for me. That belt pouch will also (depending on the day) have a Buck 110, Case large Sod Buster, Benchmade Steigerwalt, or Kershaw Northside in it. In other words, I will always have a 3.5-to-4 inch blade with me.


I can't entirely agree with Cpl Punishment's remark about winding up in the wilderness without having the opportunity to choose what one is carrying.

Mostly? Yes, if I'm out in the woods, I probably chose to be there, and I've geared up appropriately. But not always. I live in North Idaho, and wilderness is the default condition up here. Sure, I spend most of my time in town (working in an office or at home), but driving up here can easily involve dirt roads with one-car-per-hour (or less) traffic. The driver's handbook for Idaho actually stipulates that you should have a knife in the car as standard equipment. When I lived in the Reno/Tahoe area, the environment was quite similar. It was common enough to have someone stranded in the mountains with less-than-minimum equipment. No, they didn't mean to go camping, it just worked out that way. And sometimes it works out that way in four feet of snow.

Consequently I try not to assume that I'll have advance warning and the opportunity to select equipment.


It's a good bet that, in an emergency away from home, I'll have whatever's in the truck, and that's it. If I'm riding with someone else, it'll be whatever's in his truck.


For those adventures that I get to plan? Yeah, then I get to rummage around and pick out whichever big blade suits my sensibilities du jour, and that might well be the Järvenpää Leuku/Puukko combo set or one of the other large knives with a Mora as adjunct.

I have a kukri and something like a Hoodlum in my future, but that will probably require money, so it will wait for now.


It took an unfortunately long time to overcome my prejudices, and that delay has proved expensive, as some of the knives I finally settled on had doubled in price while I was fussing around with fads and naive "oh, shiny!" infatuations.

I may never be "done," but at least I now have a prayer of being adequately equipped if the gods decide it's my day to be tormented.


Not nearly as articulate as yours, friend.

"I can't entirely agree with Cpl Punishment's remark about winding up in the wilderness without having the opportunity to choose what one is carrying.

Mostly? Yes, if I'm out in the woods, I probably chose to be there, and I've geared up appropriately. But not always. I live in North Idaho, and wilderness is the default condition up here. Sure, I spend most of my time in town (working in an office or at home), but driving up here can easily involve dirt roads with one-car-per-hour (or less) traffic. The driver's handbook for Idaho actually stipulates that you should have a knife in the car as standard equipment. When I lived in the Reno/Tahoe area, the environment was quite similar. It was common enough to have someone stranded in the mountains with less-than-minimum equipment. No, they didn't mean to go camping, it just worked out that way. And sometimes it works out that way in four feet of snow.

Consequently I try not to assume that I'll have advance warning and the opportunity to select equipment."

Very true- we dont always get to CHOOSE when an emergency will happen. When I am outdoors training myself and honing my wilderness skills, I am trying to recreate how I would respond in an 'emergency'. This is the most I can do- If I knew something was going to happen, I would not bring three blades with me, I'd just stay home :D
 
Could you please, pray tell (not being as sarcastic as it sounds, it is almost 5 am), how I got in the wilderness without being able to choose what is with me, other than a plane crash?

Your car breaking down on the side of a rural road doesn't get it -- you CHOSE to, or not to, have gear in the vehicle. In someone else's vehicle? Maybe I'm weird, but if I ride with someone else, I take my bag with me.

Micro -- you mentioned your cubicle. How do you plan on getting from that cubicle to the wilderness accidentally, without having a choice of gear somewhere along the way?

Heck, I have two knives on me at work, but in my car I have an axe and a machete. I have run across a tree across the road that would have been a real pain to circumvent on the way home. It was quite near the industrial section I work in, hardly in the bush. I made short work of it and moved on. Why do I have an axe and machete in my car? Because:
1.) My car is carrying it, not me, so I have an axe, not a mini hatchet.
2.) Because I CHOSE to have the gear with me. Just like when I lived in the north, I -- and everyone else I knew -- had shovels in the car for snow, and the after-snow mud season.

Not to be condescending (really), but maybe thinking you don't choose your gear is because you're not used to making such choices unless you are in a "wilderness" or "camping" state of mind?

Just a thought.
 
I have to agree with Cpl on this, my car carries the machete, rain gear, easy fire supplies, toilet paper, extra batteries, extra LED headlamp etc. etc.

It's always a choice, always, if you chose to fly over uninhabited wilderness and you know there is even the slightest possibility that you can crash land without a knife, you have chosen to accept that risk.

Me being from Alaska.... my head was screaming... WHO DOESN'T GO OUT PREPARED IN SUB ZERO TEMPERATURES... IN THE FREAKING MOUNTAINS!?

That's seriously like playing Russian roulette with slightly better odds, it sure doesn't take long to freeze.
 
Main thing is always have a knife.
A quality knife is even better.
One that you know works well for you, better yet.
 
Could you please, pray tell (not being as sarcastic as it sounds, it is almost 5 am), how I got in the wilderness without being able to choose what is with me, other than a plane crash?

Your car breaking down on the side of a rural road doesn't get it -- you CHOSE to, or not to, have gear in the vehicle. In someone else's vehicle? Maybe I'm weird, but if I ride with someone else, I take my bag with me.

Micro -- you mentioned your cubicle. How do you plan on getting from that cubicle to the wilderness accidentally, without having a choice of gear somewhere along the way?

Heck, I have two knives on me at work, but in my car I have an axe and a machete. I have run across a tree across the road that would have been a real pain to circumvent on the way home. It was quite near the industrial section I work in, hardly in the bush. I made short work of it and moved on. Why do I have an axe and machete in my car? Because:
1.) My car is carrying it, not me, so I have an axe, not a mini hatchet.
2.) Because I CHOSE to have the gear with me. Just like when I lived in the north, I -- and everyone else I knew -- had shovels in the car for snow, and the after-snow mud season.

Not to be condescending (really), but maybe thinking you don't choose your gear is because you're not used to making such choices unless you are in a "wilderness" or "camping" state of mind?

Just a thought.

I was saying a cubicle as an example, I dont work in one.

As for the being out in the woods without getting a chance to choose ones gear:

I dont drive, I ride a bus. That eliminates my chances for carrying an axe and machete in my truck. Further more, you are correct, the majority of the time I'm in the woods I am prepared because it was a planned excursion. However, in my region of residence, the wilderness is literally all around me, and occasionally, when the bus isn't running, I have to walk to where I need to go (I take shortcuts through the woods as the normal bus distance is too long to walk). Once I leave the woods though, I am in an urban enviornment- hardly an appropriate place to walk around with a khukri.
 
In the woods... I love a scandi with a 3.5-4 inch blade...Like a mora of Helle
also I find my bk-7 to be probably the most versatle knife I own and have chosen it numerous times in the you take 1 blae out excercises..
However I can carry neither of them with me all the time

so if we are going for 1 blade all the time I'd have to take my vicotrinox forrester.. I cannot carry a fixed blade on me where I live
and this has proven to be a stout and usefull folder for me it has been my edc for the past 2 years
i have made shelter, fire, traps, and cleaned game with this knife exclusively..
in my mind it;s about the best compromise of a do all knife that I can get away with without carrying a Fixed blade.
 
I was saying a cubicle as an example, I dont work in one.

As for the being out in the woods without getting a chance to choose ones gear:

I dont drive, I ride a bus. That eliminates my chances for carrying an axe and machete in my truck. Further more, you are correct, the majority of the time I'm in the woods I am prepared because it was a planned excursion. However, in my region of residence, the wilderness is literally all around me, and occasionally, when the bus isn't running, I have to walk to where I need to go (I take shortcuts through the woods as the normal bus distance is too long to walk). Once I leave the woods though, I am in an urban enviornment- hardly an appropriate place to walk around with a khukri.

OK, I could point out that the entire circumstance there is by choice, but your circumstances may preclude any other choice, I realize that does happen. You don't carry a bag/briefcase/backpack? I rarely see an "urbanite" without one. You don't say where you live, but most places don't consider a wood hatchet to be a weapon, nor a concealed one if it's in a bag. If yours does, this is one place I'd strongly consider a folding saw -- a good one, not a pruning saw -- to go with your knife.

But, going back to your OP, most urban police would give you far more trouble over your choice of The One woods knife than a wood hatchet. I saw wood hatchet to differentiate between that and a tomahawk, which usually will get you in trouble in the city.

BTW, I'm not really arguing with your choice of the woods knife, though I prefer a two-blade system, but rather with the notion (that anotherposter brought up, and has been a fairly common theme here), that seems to indicate any knife will do as long as it's what you have, as if we are tossed about by winds of fate. There are things we can't control. This really isn't one of them. One may be limited by certain circumstances making the list they can choose from smaller than another's, but it's still their choice to choose or not choose the best of what's available.
 
OK, I could point out that the entire circumstance there is by choice, but your circumstances may preclude any other choice, I realize that does happen. You don't carry a bag/briefcase/backpack? I rarely see an "urbanite" without one. You don't say where you live, but most places don't consider a wood hatchet to be a weapon, nor a concealed one if it's in a bag. If yours does, this is one place I'd strongly consider a folding saw -- a good one, not a pruning saw -- to go with your knife.

But, going back to your OP, most urban police would give you far more trouble over your choice of The One woods knife than a wood hatchet. I saw wood hatchet to differentiate between that and a tomahawk, which usually will get you in trouble in the city.

BTW, I'm not really arguing with your choice of the woods knife, though I prefer a two-blade system, but rather with the notion (that anotherposter brought up, and has been a fairly common theme here), that seems to indicate any knife will do as long as it's what you have, as if we are tossed about by winds of fate. There are things we can't control. This really isn't one of them. One may be limited by certain circumstances making the list they can choose from smaller than another's, but it's still their choice to choose or not choose the best of what's available.

Laws prevent me from choosing what is best. As I said in the OP, the 2 or 3 blade system is superior. Still, in my particular situation, I actually cannot make the choice I want to make. If someone here found me walking around with a hatchet... I'd be in big trouble. I'd also feel awkward scaring urbanites.

We certainly have some choice as to what we carry, but this is EXTREMELY subjective, from region to region, laws to laws, person to person... etc.

The 'other poster' may be very limited in his options, I assume you are not. Its best not to make generalities.
 
OK, I could point out that the entire circumstance there is by choice, but your circumstances may preclude any other choice, I realize that does happen. You don't carry a bag/briefcase/backpack? I rarely see an "urbanite" without one. You don't say where you live, but most places don't consider a wood hatchet to be a weapon, nor a concealed one if it's in a bag. If yours does, this is one place I'd strongly consider a folding saw -- a good one, not a pruning saw -- to go with your knife.

But, going back to your OP, most urban police would give you far more trouble over your choice of The One woods knife than a wood hatchet. I saw wood hatchet to differentiate between that and a tomahawk, which usually will get you in trouble in the city.

BTW, I'm not really arguing with your choice of the woods knife, though I prefer a two-blade system, but rather with the notion (that anotherposter brought up, and has been a fairly common theme here), that seems to indicate any knife will do as long as it's what you have, as if we are tossed about by winds of fate. There are things we can't control. This really isn't one of them. One may be limited by certain circumstances making the list they can choose from smaller than another's, but it's still their choice to choose or not choose the best of what's available.

Just to name an unlikey situation.
You are driving home from the woods, another driver slams into you car and you are knock out.
You regain conscious in an ambulance which is stuck in a snow covered road (or slammed into a tree and you are the only 1 alive ) and you don't know where you are.

Likley to happen ? proberly not, but it could happen. and so could a lot of other things.

Stopping to help a stranded driver ( think Milf :rolleyes: ) and being forced away from your vehicle at gun point and robbed of all your belongings.
 
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I went through this a while back at a much more basic, uneducated level. I ended up purchasing an ESEE 4. It met pretty much every criteria I felt would make it a great outdoors/survival knife. It's very portable, strong as can be and reasonably priced for the quality. I can easily carry it anywhere. The two knife combo, or knife and khuk combo;), is ideal, and probably not too hard to have with you, with preparation. Usually when we are unprepared, it's from ignorance (guilty:)) or having our heads up our backsides (also guilty:D), but it happens to folks all the time. I received an ESEE 6 last Christmas from ESEE in a random festive drawing, and love it. It would be outstanding for a one knife set up. It is not as easy to carry as my ESEE 4, and as such, may not make it on every hike. But, truth be known, most of my hikes nowadays are unlikely to result in much hardship. I occasionally hike in the Lincoln National Forest in New Mexico though. I believe the ESEE 6 will be with me on those hikes, as an extra measure of security. I see fire and shelter being paramount in an area like that, so the 6.5" blade could help overcome my lack of knowledge and skills. Great thread. Take care.
 
I agree with cpl punishment, you really should have two blades with you in the bush.
Sometimes, though, you don't have that option. If I could bring only one, it would be a big chopper (something I need to invest in for the future).
For now, my woods blade is my ESEE 6.
 
I agree with cpl punishment, you really should have two blades with you in the bush.
Sometimes, though, you don't have that option. If I could bring only one, it would be a big chopper (something I need to invest in for the future).
For now, my woods blade is my ESEE 6.

The ESEE 6 is a great knife.
 
Laws prevent me from choosing what is best. As I said in the OP, the 2 or 3 blade system is superior. Still, in my particular situation, I actually cannot make the choice I want to make. If someone here found me walking around with a hatchet... I'd be in big trouble. I'd also feel awkward scaring urbanites.

We certainly have some choice as to what we carry, but this is EXTREMELY subjective, from region to region, laws to laws, person to person... etc.

The 'other poster' may be very limited in his options, I assume you are not. Its best not to make generalities.

I understand the situation. I have a rather long commute to a location that strictly prohibits all "weapons" on the campus. I guess I choose to earn a paycheck to be able to support my knife-buying, I mean living expenses, and not risking my job and future employment. I still carry a small folder on me, but I am careful to pick something that hopefully would not be mistaken for a weapon, wharncliffe blade, under 3 inches. That sure wouldn't get me far in a survival situation that needs a knife that can cut wood.
 
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The fear other people have of anything weaponish ... yeah it can be a BIG factor in deciding what you carry and how , for the normal daily carry
I feel that pain
the stuff that you can have to live with , knife laws , employment rules , and just other peoples fear ...
It can be annoying to live with but can be gotten around with compromise and simply breaking the law quietly ( kinda like I do by carying my knife with me daily without any particular lawful excuse ) and as inoffensively as possible .
It kinda does curb your choice of knife you carry tho .
 
The fear other people have of anything weaponish ... yeah it can be a BIG factor in deciding what you carry and how , for the normal daily carry
I feel that pain
the stuff that you can have to live with , knife laws , employment rules , and just other peoples fear ...
It can be annoying to live with but can be gotten around with compromise and simply breaking the law quietly ( kinda like I do by carying my knife with me daily without any particular lawful excuse ) and as inoffensively as possible .
It kinda does curb your choice of knife you carry tho .

I understand the situation. I have a rather long commute to a location that strictly prohibits all "weapons" on the campus. I guess I choose to earn a paycheck to be able to support my knife-buying, I mean living expenses, and not risking my job and future employment. I still carry a small folder on me, but I am careful to pick something that hopefully would not be mistaken for a weapon, wharncliffe blade, under 3 inches. That sure wouldn't get me far in a survival situation that needs a knife that can cut wood.

Exactly. You two said it better than me. This is a highly subjective matter at least, but I am sure we can all agree that, regardless of HOW much knives (or gear) we carry, skills are absolutely necessary to survive. And I'm yet to see any law that prohibits wilderness skills :thumbup:
 
Laws prevent me from choosing what is best. As I said in the OP, the 2 or 3 blade system is superior. Still, in my particular situation, I actually cannot make the choice I want to make. If someone here found me walking around with a hatchet... I'd be in big trouble. I'd also feel awkward scaring urbanites.
OK, BUT,
1.) If it's in a bag/briefcase. pack, etc, the urbanites won't see it and won't be scared. I don't see where you would need a woods tool around urbanites, in the context we are talking about. If there are urbanites magically transported to a wilderness survival scenario with some one (say, me), and they are morbidly afraid of the big, bad Cpl swinging his woods tool to make fire, they can go be scared elsewhere and freeze to death, or get over it.

2.) Why would you be found walking with a hatchet the way I described? Do you live in a country where you are routinely shaken down for no reason?

3.) I think we are straying far from your original post (or you are disproving your premise), as you wouldn't be able to carry your choice of woods blade any more than a hatchet in your urban travels, as you state the situation. So, you wouldn't have it, either, if you got into a car accident that flung you 20 miles into the woods (hyperbole) and need to to a wilderness survival romp. So I apologize for helping derail the thread this far, but I just take exception to the wilderness survival scenario, and pretending there's a reason you HAVE to only have one blade, other than as a mental exercise, that's my point.

4.) Once, again, I think your choice for a woods blade is good, but respond to "What do you choose?" with a two-blade system.

We certainly have some choice as to what we carry, but this is EXTREMELY subjective, from region to region, laws to laws, person to person... etc.

The 'other poster' may be very limited in his options, I assume you are not. Its best not to make generalities.

Making generalities is fine, because they are just that: generalities. Isolated circumstances or extremely low probability scenarios do not disprove a generality.

Just to name an unlikey situation.
You are driving home from the woods, another driver slams into you car and you are knock out.
You regain conscious in an ambulance which is stuck in a snow covered road (or slammed into a tree and you are the only 1 alive ) and you don't know where you are.

Likley to happen ? proberly not, but it could happen. and so could a lot of other things.
Or a Martian flying saucer could beam me up, naked and drunk to anal probe me, get shot down by a rogue meteor, and crash in the middle of Saskatchewan. You can't prepare for everything. But I still had the choice to drive out into the woods with an axe in the car or not.

Stopping to help a stranded driver ( think Milf :rolleyes: ) and being forced away from your vehicle at gun point and robbed of all your belongings.
Possible, it does happen. Happened to me one time and didn't work out well.

For them.


See, I still had choices. One was gear, one was mindset, and one was willingness to use both.

But again, we've strayed a long way away from the topic. So, I'll bow out, so as not to further that.
 
my humble philosophy is to carry the "tools" that are best for the job AND at the same time balancing that need with a need to keep weight/volume reasonable for that trip

the "tools" that I carry big game hunting differ from the "tools" that I carry trout fishing at a high mountain lake; the "tools" that I carry in the summer differ from the ones chosen for winter; the "tools" that I carry horseback are significantly different than the "tools" I carry backpacking :D

obviously the trick is choosing the appropriate tools and having the working knowledge to use them properly

are there scenarios where things change and the tool chosen is now less appropriate- clearly, but those scenarios should already be thought of ahead of time- quick example- when I backpack I tend to go extremely light (easier on my body and I can cover lots of country) and only carry a small, light fixed blade knife- it's main chores consist of food prep, cleaning of fish or fowl (if I have luck acquiring my quarry :)) and light wood prep for my stove- perfect for a small, light fixed blade. if for some reason I were to be separated from my pack (and my shelter/sleeping bag!) I undoubtedly would prefer to have a larger knife, a saw and probably even an axe on my person, that scenario isn't likely, but could (and has) played out. What I've done to mitigate that scenario is first I've chosen a fixed blade over a folder, undoubtedly a decent folder could handle the above listed chores, but being separated from my pack a fixed blade (albeit a small one) is the clear winner; second I've insured that my knife is going to be on my person- ala neck carry- a large fixed blade, axe or saw in my pack doesn't help much in this scenario; third my neck knife is setup as a small "kit"- firesteel, tinder, cordage, whistle and a small light- just enough to eek out a night or two if need be- in one of my pocket is a K&M matchsafe- small compass, storm matches and more tinder; fourth I've practiced building debris shelters, starting fires under adverse conditions and navigating under less than ideal conditions

cliff notes- choose the right tool(s), be extremely familiar w/ said tool(s) and plan for the unplanned
 
I started from the "Find the perfect knife!" Than I changed my philosophy: "Try to get out the most of your knife!". The first is idealistic - and I was not able to find the perfect one. The second standpoint is more realistic. Now I use Mora 860, Victorinox Camper an a custom 130mm long blade form O1. (If possible with my small Husquarna hatchet.)
 
OK, BUT,
1.) If it's in a bag/briefcase. pack, etc, the urbanites won't see it and won't be scared. I don't see where you would need a woods tool around urbanites, in the context we are talking about. If there are urbanites magically transported to a wilderness survival scenario with some one (say, me), and they are morbidly afraid of the big, bad Cpl swinging his woods tool to make fire, they can go be scared elsewhere and freeze to death, or get over it.

Who edc's an axe in their backpack everyday? While concealing it would be good for not scaring urbanites, I routinely enter places that do not allow weapons- banks, airports, my university, etc. In these situations, I have a flint rock in my pocket. What do people see? A rock. I see a little blade ready to be made. I believe that with enough skill, some day I might only need the little flint.

I dont need the 'woods tool' near the urbanites, however, I can need it when getting to the urbanites or when getting home. That is, it's the passage that can hold trouble, not the destination.


2.) Why would you be found walking with a hatchet the way I described? Do you live in a country where you are routinely shaken down for no reason?

It's best not to risk it. I dont know if I will be found... but its possible. I live in the great US of A.

3.) I think we are straying far from your original post (or you are disproving your premise), as you wouldn't be able to carry your choice of woods blade any more than a hatchet in your urban travels, as you state the situation. So, you wouldn't have it, either, if you got into a car accident that flung you 20 miles into the woods (hyperbole) and need to to a wilderness survival romp. So I apologize for helping derail the thread this far, but I just take exception to the wilderness survival scenario, and pretending there's a reason you HAVE to only have one blade, other than as a mental exercise, that's my point.

I would be able to carry my woods blade, and not the hatchet. Reason? We have nonexisting knife laws here. However, we do have 'weapons laws'. An axe or machete, for example, is considered, by local statute, a weapon. A woods blade, as I have described it (or any other knife that doesnt meet the length/size requirements to be considered a machete) is fine to carry. Like they say, YMMV. I dont see how this is disproving my premise, as my philosophy is here for peer review, and is no way asserting any 'fact', which would be a necessary element to allow the forming of a logical rebuttal.

4.) Once, again, I think your choice for a woods blade is good, but respond to "What do you choose?" with a two-blade system.

I dont think I fully understand this- could you elaborate please?


Making generalities is fine, because they are just that: generalities. Isolated circumstances or extremely low probability scenarios do not disprove a generality.

Isolated circumstances and 'generalities'- how do we know if they are isolated or not? This is a fallacy because it assumes a standard (it is an isolated incident or extremely low probability for someone to be in a survival situation without having a choice as to what they have with them) that is subjective (how many people are subjected to restrictive knife laws, and what constitutes 'restrictive'?)

Also, how exactly are generalities with a subjective or undetermined context disproven (or proven)? Any generality or value statement must have a context in order to have any meaning.
 
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