Worn out. Is warranty repair dishonest?

midnight flyer said:
I had to quote this for truth.

I am a small business man and I do all manner or contracting work. I put myself in both shoes, but ultimately, and not surprisingly, vote on the side of the business and its judgement.

When I built my own cabinets for baths and kitchens (I do mean me!) I gave a lifetime warranty on my work. Not the finish, but construction and the hardware. I have been in business for 40+ years in the same city with the same name, so I am easy to find. I have two kinds of clients that call me for warranty issues:

!) Robert, we are having a problem with one of our cabinet doors, it won't close anymore. I remember we bought a lifetime warranty (actually included when I was building my business) and we need for you to repair a couple of the cabinet doors. OK, off I go. I get to the house and find that their children have been literally hanging on the base unit doors and swinging themselves for a few years. The client thinks it is "not good" but who can control kids these days? Go ahead and fix the doors, please. IF they were good clients while I was working for them, and if they were repeat clients, I will do it. My call, and if the wear and tear is unreasonable, then most of my clients (mostly great folks that turn into friends) will offer to pay

2) Robert, we had the grand kids over and they were using the large cabinet door as a swing and tore it off. Could we get you to fix it, we know it isn't warranty, and Grandma (you remember Ellen...) tore them up. Me - sure, I'll come buy and take a look, hopefully some new hinges and some glue will do the trick. They pay for the hinges and a service call plus a cigar and we are done.

My clients are all repeat guys and I rarely bid on work. Happy clients are referring clients in my business so I always keep that in mind. But another situation exists, not included above as these are likely no longer my clients. It is the folks that don't take care of my work (a new front door, bath cabinets, a pergola, and on an on) and they think nothing will ever wear out and they do no maintenance and use the work I have done with no consideration at all since it had a "lifetime warranty". For example, a LARGE woman that "hip checks" a door to get it open without checking to see if it is latched can probably generate about the same force as a professional hockey player on a door. Broken locksets, broken trims, cracked jambs.... should I be responsible for that? Nope, I don't care if it is a year old.

But another thing drives a mass production company like knife manufacturers. Social media, forums, websites, etc. that are frequented by fans. Would it be better to simply replace a knife, or have some enraged, entitled person rape you on Reddit, Instagram, Facebook, BF, AAPK, and on and on because you wouldn't regrind a blade or repair a handle on a knife because you valued that person as a client? Since we are a social media society (just look at the huge number of participants and even larger amount of audience here) and social media rules, it is easier to replace than to try to make up ground on social media. In fact, it is even easier still to raise your prices on every knife so you can cover the occasional losses.

Personally, I grew up with a pocket knife in my pocket. My two oldest knives (when I owned less than 5 to my name) I still have. An old CASE "workman" from 1969, and a CASE large copperhead from 1976. Both of those knives have been faithful servants for decades. The copperhead's shield is so worn down that you can hardly read it. The once beautiful deep ruby colored scales are chocolate brown from hand sweat, cleaning agents, and grime. A couple of the rivets have their heads sheared off! I look at that kind of wear as a badge of honor, each scarring trait well earned over decades.

You couldn't get those knives away from me for love or money. I wouldn't think of sending them anywhere for any reason. Like me, they earned their wrinkles and grey hair. They make me smile every time I carry them.

Robert
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Your post brought back memories. I used to own my own contracting business.

As soon as I read "we are having a problem with one of our cabinets doors, It won't close anymore", my first thought was- kids swinging on it. A common occurrence. 😁

My most memorable incident was a call to fix the garage door my guys and I installed in a garage we rebuilt. On the phone the home owner said it just stopped working, he didn't know why. When I got there it was obvious why- someone had backed into the door from the inside with their car. There were clear bumper marks on the inside of the door that perfectly matched the car that was still in the garage, with paint transfer from the door to the bumper. The auto opener was still functional, so I can only assume someone had a brain-fart and forgot to open the door before backing up the car.

When I pointed out what caused the damage, the owner denied it and blamed me. He wasn't my favorite customers (any wonder why) so there was no way I was going to fix it for free. I gave him a price, he refused to accept, I suggested he call someone else. A week later he called me back, turned out the price I gave him was by far the lowest he had received. So my guys and I fixed it.

When the opportunity to fund an early retirement presented itself I sold the business (vehicles, tools, etc) to my foreman. One of the main reasons I took early retirement- I got tired of dealing with pain-in-the-ass customers. People often talk about bad contractors, and they're out there, but no one ever talks about bad customers.

I installed beautiful granite countertops in a customers kitchen, she selected the granite herself from several samples I provided. She gets back from a trip, looks at the finished counters and says "I never wanted that color granite. It looks horrible. I'm not paying for that".

I show her the invoice for the granite that she signed and dated. "Well, you're supposed to be a professional" she says, "You should have known I wouldn't like it".

Just one example of many. Any wonder I retired? 🙄
 
I see nothing dishonest in this at all.

If the knife is simply well-used versus abused, then I am sure Benchmade would have no problem with refurbishing it. As others said, you are paying for the warranty when you bought the knife. If Benchmade has an issue with it, I'm sure they will let you know before you send it in, or once they have seen it.

Most companies love to see that their products are being used, even to the point of non-functional. Off topic somewhat, but I sent a Braun electric shaver back to the company a decade ago, asking if it could be cleaned and refurbished. I also indicated the motor was weak and pretty much burnt out. I told them I would be happy to pay for the repair but if they could not fix it, just toss it away - no sense returning it to me. It was the best shaver I had ever used and shaved as close as a blade, but was long since discontinued when I sent it back. Braun told me they would not promise anything until they saw it, and reminded me that it was a discontinued model for many years at that point and parts were not available.

A couple months went past and I never heard anything. I assumed my razor was disposed of. I got home from work one day to find a parcel in my mailbox. It was from Braun. Not only was my original shaver inside looking brand new, but also was another top-of-line (at that time) electric razor and a HAND WRITTEN note from the CEO of Braun thanking me for my patronage.
 
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AntDog said:
Buck n’ Benchmade, baby. Send it in, get it back new. No matter the reason, no guilt.
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My experience - Buck yes, BM no.

I sent a Buck Nighthawk, that had a crack in the handle, in. I told them it wasn't bothersome, I just wanted them to tell me if it was safe to use like that. Of course, from Corp perspective, a new knife cost A LOT less than a finger. Shipped me out a new one.

Sent a BM in. Told them I wanted the original blade because It was a first production run 710 with the old logo. Told them it had wicked lock rock (years of use, no deceit). I figured maybe a new stop pin, I dunno OR, if the slop could not be removed without a new blade...... tell me. Instead, they sharpened it and sent it back in exactly the same condition

So.... your experience and mine were not the same.

OP - tell the truth. Wtvr happens after that is good. I had a knife company refused to charge me for the parts I damaged. I was adamant. I told them - this is not a quality issue, I messed it up, there was a DREMEL involved. Your warranty should not cover idiots with power tools. They said - don't do it again, your stuff is on the way.
 
killgar said:
Just one example of many. Any wonder I retired?
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None at all. I think most of our overall clients are about the same, some good, some bad and some annoying as hell no matter what you are doing and what you are doing/providing/servicing.

Expectations can be over the top, not connected to reality. And every time you think you have seen and heard it all, the bar moves. I love the back handed slap insults, too, like the one you mentioned. I just finished an interior paint/overhaul on a house, and part of that was to install about 800' of quarter round molding to cover the perimeter of the new flooring. This is large molding, 3/4", and it didn't cover the gap between the new floor and the wall. I alerted the client, they were too busy to talk. Finding many more places like that, I alerted them again and sent pictures. No response except that, we will be back next week and take a look at it then. Knowing I had a drop dead date on my contract because they had scheduled movers to get into the house I pressed forward as my work required about 8 full days.

The client gets into town and they are completely pissed off at the floor installation, and couldn't believed I put down the quarter round and painted it over the large gaps. I pointed out that I had a penalty clause in my contract that was pretty nasty if I didn't get the work finished to accommodate their moving company, and I pointed out that I had two phone calls with them and a couple of texts, AND pictures. Their response? A responsible contractor would have made sure they understood the severity of the problem to them, explained it until they got it, and found a way to "make it right". They have seen so many home improvement/remodel shows that they have no understanding of real world contracting at all.

As a sidebar, they shopped hard to get the cheapest price on flooring they could, and I think they got what they paid for. I was too expensive on the flooring (that's OK, I don't get them all!) and the company they hired will not warrant their work (some of it is coming apart now) as they client signed their certification of satisfactory completion.

So who is responsible for what these days? Generally accepted in my community as well as the people I buy tools from, warranty is extended to the original purchaser unless otherwise specified. I give a transferable warranty on my new roofs and new floors, but not on repairs.

I think most big companies in the knife business see warranty on small things like I do. It IS NOT customer service, it IS NOT being a great and responsible company. You choke down people that take advantage of your product and services simply because that is the easiest way to make them go away. According to the 'net, Benchmade's annual revenue is a little over $50 million dollars. It is cheaper to flip you a new 941 than to spend hours dealing with someone that wants a period correct stamp on a replacement blade, the "old pattern" cut into the G10, and for it to be perfectly centered and of course, "drop shutty". Even then some folks get their new knife and then complain that the manufacturer didn't send back the old parts with the new knife.

You learn this as your customer service when dealing with some issues: I know this isn't my issue, my responsibility, and my warranty was never intended to cover this crap. BUT... how much would I pay to make this issue and this client go away? If they feel like they got more than they paid for (shorting me of course) then they are happy and they go away. They feel like they locked horns with their contractor (who at this point is just a tired old guy) and won. Good stories over a beer with the boys. Sometimes it is just worth it to make it all go away, even if it is out of your won pocket. I can't imagine how much easier it would be to just drop a new knife, bread maker, hatchet, or cornbread mix into the mail than it would be to listen to deal with someone that is hell bound on getting something for nothing by bending the warranty's original intent.
 
There are some companies that pride themselves on their products and their customers. As others have stated, as long as you are honest with them, you should not hesitate.

quick non knife related story....I had a Winston fly fishing rod about 20 years ago. These are top of the line rods that now cost around $800. I broke the rod when I accidentally closed my car door on it and it snapped. I sent the rod back to Winston and asked if it was possible to fix the rod (at my cost) because it had sentimental value, as it was a gift from my dad. After about a month, I received a brand new rod in the mail. They even paid shipping. Their note said "sorry Ron we could not repair your rod but hope you will accept this new one as a replacement. We remember when your dad bought this rod for you. Enjoy!" They even engraved it with the same words my dad had on the original.

Even though they knew I F'd up - they did this. Sometimes you just never know. And this is how companies build their reputation and customer base for life. Some companies are interested in more than just the first sale.
 
I'd call customer service and explain the situation. If they tell you to send it in: no guilt!👍
 
killgar said:
I would consider it unethical to try and mislead the manufacturer into repairing the knife by claiming it is defective if it is not defective.

However, if you told the manufacturer the truth, that the knife has served you well for years, that it has been a valuable tool and cherished companion, that it has worn out from extensive use, and you ask them if they offer any free refurbishing services, I would see nothing wrong with that.

Who knows, maybe the manufacturer would refurbish it for free, in appreciation for a customer who values their product. Perhaps they would consider it good PR.
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This. If the manufacturer includes wear as part of their warranty, so much the better. I'm going to send in my 11-year-old Osprey pack because it is worn out and they include wear in their warranty. It's most likely built into the original price - $240 for a pack that probably cost them $25 to make in China.

Benchmade is sometimes a pain with their customer service. A few years ago my father got a 480-1 Shoki, but it arrived with severe blade rub because the blade was so far off center. He sent it in for warranty service, and all they did was tighten the pivot enough to get the blade to stop rubbing, but it is so tight that it is very difficult to open. If you loosen the pivot so that the blade is reasonably easy to open, the blade rubs.
 
midnight flyer said:
None at all. I think most of our overall clients are about the same, some good, some bad and some annoying as hell no matter what you are doing and what you are doing/providing/servicing.

Expectations can be over the top, not connected to reality. And every time you think you have seen and heard it all, the bar moves. I love the back handed slap insults, too, like the one you mentioned. I just finished an interior paint/overhaul on a house, and part of that was to install about 800' of quarter round molding to cover the perimeter of the new flooring. This is large molding, 3/4", and it didn't cover the gap between the new floor and the wall. I alerted the client, they were too busy to talk. Finding many more places like that, I alerted them again and sent pictures. No response except that, we will be back next week and take a look at it then. Knowing I had a drop dead date on my contract because they had scheduled movers to get into the house I pressed forward as my work required about 8 full days.

The client gets into town and they are completely pissed off at the floor installation, and couldn't believed I put down the quarter round and painted it over the large gaps. I pointed out that I had a penalty clause in my contract that was pretty nasty if I didn't get the work finished to accommodate their moving company, and I pointed out that I had two phone calls with them and a couple of texts, AND pictures. Their response? A responsible contractor would have made sure they understood the severity of the problem to them, explained it until they got it, and found a way to "make it right". They have seen so many home improvement/remodel shows that they have no understanding of real world contracting at all.

As a sidebar, they shopped hard to get the cheapest price on flooring they could, and I think they got what they paid for. I was too expensive on the flooring (that's OK, I don't get them all!) and the company they hired will not warrant their work (some of it is coming apart now) as they client signed their certification of satisfactory completion.

So who is responsible for what these days? Generally accepted in my community as well as the people I buy tools from, warranty is extended to the original purchaser unless otherwise specified. I give a transferable warranty on my new roofs and new floors, but not on repairs.

I think most big companies in the knife business see warranty on small things like I do. It IS NOT customer service, it IS NOT being a great and responsible company. You choke down people that take advantage of your product and services simply because that is the easiest way to make them go away. According to the 'net, Benchmade's annual revenue is a little over $50 million dollars. It is cheaper to flip you a new 941 than to spend hours dealing with someone that wants a period correct stamp on a replacement blade, the "old pattern" cut into the G10, and for it to be perfectly centered and of course, "drop shutty". Even then some folks get their new knife and then complain that the manufacturer didn't send back the old parts with the new knife.

You learn this as your customer service when dealing with some issues: I know this isn't my issue, my responsibility, and my warranty was never intended to cover this crap. BUT... how much would I pay to make this issue and this client go away? If they feel like they got more than they paid for (shorting me of course) then they are happy and they go away. They feel like they locked horns with their contractor (who at this point is just a tired old guy) and won. Good stories over a beer with the boys. Sometimes it is just worth it to make it all go away, even if it is out of your won pocket. I can't imagine how much easier it would be to just drop a new knife, bread maker, hatchet, or cornbread mix into the mail than it would be to listen to deal with someone that is hell bound on getting something for nothing by bending the warranty's original intent.
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I think this is a fantastic summation. That’s exactly what it is, I.e bending the original intent and going along with it is the path of least resistance.
 
mcflyfyter said:
I've carried a knife for several years and its pretty worn out and getting sloppy. I have got my money out of it, but I'm certain the manufacturer would repair it for free. Do you see it as dishonest to have it repaired for free? It kinda feels that way to me.
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I think so. I would send it in with a letter of how much I loved the knife and everything and offer to pay him/her for the work and not even mention the warranty. They would probably at least give me a discount.
Oh, and if I batoned wood with a knife my dad would come back from the grave and haunt me relentlessly.
 
I ended up sending the contego back to BM, and they replaced everything but the blade, scales, and clip. I think I'm going to retire it since I doubt I'll get another rebuild due to parts availability. That, and the scales are so slick now that it defeats the point on the contego anyways... the GRIP! Rest easy my friend
 
mcflyfyter said:
I ended up sending the contego back to BM, and they replaced everything but the blade, scales, and clip. I think I'm going to retire it since I doubt I'll get another rebuild due to parts availability. That, and the scales are so slick now that it defeats the point on the contego anyways... the GRIP! Rest easy my friend
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You could always look into getting some aftermarket G-10 or Micarta scales for it and continue to use it.
 
Buck offers a life time warranty and they mean it. Years and years ago my dads beat to hell and used up 110 was down to about 2/3rd of a tip-less blade. Lock was crapped out and one scale had been glued on like 10 times. I bought him new ones every Christmas for 5 years and they never came out of the box. He kept saying his had a forever warranty and when it quit being useable he would send it in…
Finally I convinced him to let me send it in for him to see if they would at least grind a tip into the blade and fix the lock. He made me call and verify if they couldn't fix it they would send it back as it meant a lot to him as it had been a gift from his long gone brother and he would know because of the initials he had engraved in one bolster that was so worn I didn't even know it was there, but he did.
I as told that that's was exactly what they would do if it couldn't be fixed and I should not worry as they understood how important these types of things were. 3 weeks later the knife was back with 2 new scales, a fully functioning lock, a new blade and 3 polished bolsters and a note thanking him for believing in Buck Knives ( truth is he was really a case man!).
I wasnt there when my old man went down and I missed the funeral, my little brother assured me he was buried with that 110.
I carried a 303 for 40 years and the one I will be buried with sits on my dresser…
 
Now THAT'S a party! 😎👍
Can we bring marshmallows?
 
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If it isn’t profitable, they’ll figure it out and make the change. Be honest and you can keep a clear conscious. Whether they repair it or not is up to them.
 
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