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Worst 3 Steels - Never Buy!
- Thread starter Tommy-Chi
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Ok, so you don't like inexpensive knives, got it. That said, this list feels like some copy-paste nonsense you jacked from somewhere else. Can you point out a knife you personally ever used or even saw made in something like AN58, 300 Stainless, or (LMAO) cast iron?? I imagine I'll be waiting for a response while you go Google for examples, because this is a list regurgitated from somewhere/someone else.
That said, knives in most of those steels listed certainly DO have their place. I do not personally prefer Chinese-made knives, but when I was traveling for business constantly, there were plenty of times, I'd stop by the local Big Box Store (TM) to grab a super cheap folder if I was going to be somewhere for longer than a day or two just so I'd have a knife in my pocket. Then, more often than not, I'd gift it to someone on the team I was working with, or just toss it in the trash. In that week, two-week timeframe, a cheap 440 or 8cr knife would do all the knifey things I needed to have done, cut paper, cut food, cut threads, open envelopes, trim this or that, with zero issues. Oh, golly gee, if only I could have had one of my super steel knives with me, it would have done all those things in a far superior fashion. /s
In any case, I'll wait for you to post up pics of those sweet knives you personally used (so you could form relevant opinions) in cast iron or AN58. This should be good.
I couldn't disagree more, and would have thought someone who has such a large amount invested in knives would have a better understanding of the difference between bad steels and bad knife makers.
So who made this karambit of yours? I have AUS-8 knives from highly regarded companies like KaBar and they are great knives in an excellent, affordable, easy to sharpen steel with very nice edge holding. By the way, its got Bob Doziers name on it.
Cutting tests measuring what?
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- Oct 11, 2013
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Good call, not to mention, knives like the RAT and Avispa or Utilitac knives. Quality products at an inexpensive price point that make great EDC users, all in AUS-8.
herisson
Apple slicing rocking chair dweller
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Really, I'm laughing my ass off here. Do new fangled advanced cutting edge (hi, hi,...) steels need some more advertisement ? They have it... They are insane in any point of view and they are just a revolution. OK... I am amazed by the one knife I have in Elmax. It's truly amazing. Received it "sharp enough" and it just keeps giving and giving. Didn't need to sharpen it for one year (mild kitchen duty...). Amazing... but : the knife I use the most is a Tojiro Santoku with Hitachi white core. Very hard core (62 HRC, if I remember well), all right, but very easy to get back to hair splitting sharp (10 seconds). So... what do I like best ? Sizzling edge, of course. AEB-L maybe my next hunt.
Exactly. Spending a lot of money on knives does not make them good or the buyer knowledgeable.
Hell, we could make our friend a knife out of cesium at about 40 bucks a gram. Of course at about 80 degrees F it will melt but not before bursting into flame first when coming into contact with air.
But it would cost a lot of money! More than you have ever spent! So it must be good!
If there is anything I have learned it is that, unless you are steel junkie, chasing steels is silly. There are great knives made out of these "inferior" steels made by great, upstanding makers.
BTW, here's one of mine in 5160.
Justin Gingrich made it for me. If anybody wants to tell him he doesn't make "decent" knives and he should not be supported, let me know ahead of time so I can watch.
Does that hold for Paul Bos treated Buck 420HC?
"Bettered" based on what characteristics?
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I don't claim to be an expert on steels by any means but some those steels as stated in the OP are actually decent - good in the kitchen knives sets which are readily available at Big Box stores or the Big Online stores. I would love for my kitchen knives set to be in say AEB-L, but a set of say 16 in that steel would make the cost quite prohibitive whereas those so-called "never buy" steels will make a decent, durable and lasting set if cared for but not necessary to care for obsessively.
Like some people have already mentioned, it depends on the maker and the application.
Like some people have already mentioned, it depends on the maker and the application.
Ok, so you don't like inexpensive knives, got it. That said, this list feels like some copy-paste nonsense you jacked from somewhere else. Can you point out a knife you personally ever used or even saw made in something like AN58, 300 Stainless, or (LMAO) cast iron?? I imagine I'll be waiting for a response while you go Google for examples, because this is a list regurgitated from somewhere/someone else.
That said, knives in most of those steels listed certainly DO have their place. I do not personally prefer Chinese-made knives, but when I was traveling for business constantly, there were plenty of times, I'd stop by the local Big Box Store (TM) to grab a super cheap folder if I was going to be somewhere for longer than a day or two just so I'd have a knife in my pocket. Then, more often than not, I'd gift it to someone on the team I was working with, or just toss it in the trash. In that week, two-week timeframe, a cheap 440 or 8cr knife would do all the knifey things I needed to have done, cut paper, cut food, cut threads, open envelopes, trim this or that, with zero issues. Oh, golly gee, if only I could have had one of my super steel knives with me, it would have done all those things in a far superior fashion. /s
In any case, I'll wait for you to post up pics of those sweet knives you personally used (so you could form relevant opinions) in cast iron or AN58. This should be good.
I wrote the post to try and get a conversation going not to insult anyone. The list is from "Cedric & Ada Gear and Outdoors" who is on YouTube (from Australia) and he does cut tests. He is well known and those steels were from the very bottom of his list.
Knife News also ran an article on how bad/good budget steel is.
The cut tests:
KEY
Steel(Special), # of cuts knife #1 - Manufacturer #1; # of cuts knife #2 - Manufacturer #2
CPM REX 121(UNLEASHED TO THE MAXX - 13dg 3000 grit edge), 1300+ - Creely Knives
CPM REX 121(UNLEASHED - 17dg 600 grit Lansky edge), 925 to 950 - Creely Knives
M390(UNLEASHED TO THE MAXXX, 13deg/12deg per side), 550/810 - Steel Will
Maxamet(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge toothy), 810 - Spyderco Manix 2
M4(UNLEASHED - 15deg edge, 600 grit KME toothy/coarse edge), 700 - Spyderco Mantra
Vanax Superclean(1.55% Nitrogen/3.50% Vanadium Steel)(17deg KME Mirror Polished Edge), 680 - Shannon Labs Knife 60HRC
CTS-XHP(UNLEASHED TO THE MAXX - 12DEG/SIDE, 1000 grit finish), 600 - Cold Steel American Lawman
Maxamet, 563 - Spyderco Manix 2, 20 degree edge
LC200N(UNLEASHED - 16deg edge, 160,000 grit KME polished edge), 550 - Spyderco Slysz Spydiechef
CPM 10V(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge toothy), 550 - Spyderco Fahrid K2
Vanax Superclean(1.55% Nitrogen/3.50% Vanadium Steel)(17deg 600gr Coarse/Toothy Finish Edge), 550 - Shannon Labs Knife 60HRC
Z Finit (LC200N)(0.50% Nitrogen Steel)(17deg KME Mirror Polish Edge), 525 - Shannon Labs Knife 60HRC
S110V (UNLEASHED - 17dg edge) 500 - Spyderco Para 3
M4(UNLEASHED - 15deg edge, 160,000 grit KME polished edge), 500 - Spyderco Mantra
CPM M4(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 489 - Spyderco
K390(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 480 - Spyderco
ZDP 189 (UNLEASHED - 17deg edge), 480 - Spyderco Dragonfly 2
CPM 4V, 475 - Bark River Knives, Kephart 5
S90V(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 440 - Benchmade Altitude
M390(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 440 - Steel Will Cutjack
LC200N(UNLEASHED - 16deg edge, 600 grit KME toothy/coarse edge), 430 - Spyderco Slysz Spydiechef
M390(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 425 - REPLACEMENT Steel Will Modus
HAP40(UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 415 - Spyderco Dragonfly 2
N695(UNLEASHED TO THE MAXX - 12DEG/SIDE), 410 - "Cudeman MT-5"
Z Finit (LC200N)(0.50% Nitrogen Steel)(17deg 600gr Coarse/Toothy Finish Edge), 390 - Shannon Labs Knife 60HRC
CPM 10V, 389 - Spyderco Fahrid K2
ZDP 189 (Factory Edge), 380 - Spyderco Dragonfly 2
Cru Wear(Polished Edge), 375 - Creely Knives
CTS-XHP (UNLEASHED - 17dg edge), 370 - Cold Steel American Lawman
CPM 20CV, 351 - Benchmade Griptillian 555-1
Cru Wear(UNLEASHED - 17dg toothy edge 600 grit), 350 - Creely Knives
VG10(UNLEASHED TO THE MAXX - 12DEG/SIDE), 340 - Kizer V3
ZDP189, 336 - Spyderco Endura
M390, 334 - Lionsteel TRE; 400 cuts at 20 degrees on mirror polished edge - WE Knives 620j
S30VUNLEASHED - 16deg edge, 160,000 grit KME polished/mirror edge), 330 - Benchmade 940
CTS 204P, 321 - Spyderco Southard
ELMAX (Unleashed), 320 - Microtec DOC (20 degree mirror polished edge)
HAP40, 300 - Spyderco Dragonfly 2
Z Finit (LC200N)(0.50% Nitrogen Steel)(13deg Tormec 1000 Grit Edge), 300 (edge did not hold) - Shannon Labs Knife 60HRC
Vanax Superclean(1.55% Nitrogen/3.50% Vanadium Steel)(20deg Worksharp Edge), 300 - Shannon Labs Knife 60HRC
CPM S110V, 295 - Spyderco Paramilitary 2; 281 - Spyderco Manix 2
S35VN(UNLEASHED - 17dg), 295 - Cold Steel Recon 1
SGPS, 291- Fallkniven U2
BOS S30V(UNLEASHED - 17dg Tormec 1000 grit), 290 - Bucks Paul BOS Heat Treat, Vantage Pro Mini
3V(UNLEASHED - 17deg edge, 160,000 grit KME polished edge), 290 - Survive Knives
CTS 40CP, 285 - Strider SNG
CPM M4, 280 - Benchmade Contego; 224 - Spyderco Mantra
CPM S90V, 278 - Spyderco Native 5
S30V(UNLEASHED - 16deg, 600 grit KME toothy/coarse edge), 275 - Benchmade 940
S30V (UNLEASHED, 17deg, Polished Edge), 260 - Spyderco Sage
K390, 242 - Spyderco Police 4
CTS XHP, 242 - Cold Steel Broken Skull
3V(UNLEASHED - 17deg edge, 600 grit KME toothy/coarse edge), 240 - Survive Knives
ELMAX, 236 - Zero Tolerance 0562
Z Finit (LC200N)(0.50% Nitrogen Steel)(20deg Worksharp Edge), 230 - Shannon Labs Knife 60HRC
LC200N, 226 - Spyderco Spydiechef
Vanadis 4, 225 - Zero Tolerance 0180 (???? 4V?)
S30V(UNLEASHED - 17dg Tormec 1000 grit), 220 - Benchmade 940
14c28n(UNLEASHED TO THE MAXX, Tormek 12 degree edge), 215 - Ruike P801SV
CPM 3V, 209 - Cold Steel Master Hunter; 198, Bark River Bravo 1 LT
CPM S35VN, 198 - Kizer Gemini; 194, ZT0220; 187 - Reeve Sebenza
3V, 195 (20 Degree edge) - GSO 4.7
A2, 191 - Bark River JX6 (BRK does A2 right)
RWL34(RHC 59), 186 - Foolhardy Knives
S30V, 185 - Leatherman Charge TTI
S35VN(Factory Edge), 180 - Cold Steel Recon 1
Acuto 440(17deg KME Mirror Polished Edge), 180 - Tangram Santa Fe
Laminated CoS, 176 - Fallkniven PC
CPM S30V, 175 - Benchmade 940; 190 - Spyderco Sage
1095(UNLEASHED TO THE MAXX, Tormek 12 degree edge), 150 - Farm and Field knife, 58 to 59HRC.
154CM, 150 - Leatherman Charge Plus
1.4116(4116)(UNLEASHED TO THE MAXX - 13DEG/SIDE), 140 - Ontario Wraith
Aogami Blue Steel(UNLEASHED 14 degree edge), 140 - Higo No Kami; 210 - Higo No Kami
8cr13mov (UNLEASHED TO THE MAXX - Tormek 12 degree edge), 135 - Kershaw, Atmos by Sincovitch. Edge rolled.
NIOLOX, 135 - Lionsteel T5
154CM, 124 - Leatherman Skeletool CX
D2, 120 - Ontario Rat 1 (Ontario does D2 right)
VG10, 115 - 17 degree polished edges, Spyderco Delica
CTS BD1, 112 - Cold Steel Voyager
CPM S35VN, 109 to 113 - ZT 0909 (TWO TESTS)
BDZ1(UNLEASHED), 111 - Gerber Strongarm
01, 109 - Tindall Knives Sawtooth Hunter
AEB L, 108 - DB Blades Custom Knife
Sleipner, 105 - Lionsteel SR11
14c28n, 105 - 17 degree polished edges, ? unknown knife
N695, 100 - "Cudeman MT-5"
80CRv2, 100 - Terava Jaakari puukko
Infi, 90 - Busse
X12MF, 90 - Kizlyar Fileen
Acuto 440(19deg Factory Edge), 90 - Tangram Santa Fe
14c28n, 88 - Mora Garbera
1095 Cro Van, 87 - Ka Bar BK7 (better than std 1095)
N690co 87 - Spyderco Pingo
12C27, 85 - Greystone Custom Knife
3V(Factory Edge), 85 - GSO 4.7
VG10c 83 - Kizer Dukes; 75 - Spyderco Delica; 74 - Fallkniven F1
Ceramic, 80 - Savannah, Kitchen Knife
L6c 80 - Svord Peasant
420HC (UNLEASHED), 80 - Gerber Strongarm
Acuto 440(20deg Worksharp Edge), 80 - Tangram Santa Fe
440C 77 - Lionsteel Mini
BDZ1, 75 - Gerber Strongarm
440C, 75 Kizlyar Hero; 70 - Kizlyar Ute
1095, 75 - ESEE 4; 69 - SCHRADE 42D
VG1, 73 - Cold Steel SRK
9cr18mov, 72 - Freewolf Knife
14c28n, 71 - Real Steel E571
Case Chrome Vanadium, 70 to 77
D2, 67/70 - Viper Keeper
4116, 67 - Cold Steel Bushman
BOS 420HC, 67 - Buck vantage select
C75, 66 - Opinel
Case Tru Sharp, 60 to 65
AUS8, 60 - Al Mar Facon; 58 - Ontario Rat 1; 52 - Cold Steel Kobun
5160, 59 - Ontario Bushcraft Field
8cr14mov, 56 - Tonife Luminescence
12c27mod, 55 - Opinel
AN58, 53 - Nieto Pegaso
440c, 53 - Ganzo Gsomething
440B, 50 - CutCo KA-BAR/Becker
420HC, 50 - Gerber Strongarm
M390, 50 to 100 cuts(5 complete tests), Steel Will Modus (BOGUS KNIFE STEEL)
420hc, 44 to 60 - Leatherman Surge; 48 - Gerber Strongarm
8cr13mov, 48 - CRKT NOMA; 39 - CRKT Swindle
420 J2, 40 - Buck 311
440A, 38 - Becker Remora
5cr15mov, 37 - Gerber Index
Victorinox, 36 - Explorer
7cr13Mov, 35 - Bear Grylls Knife
Cast Iron, 20 - Amazon.com Cast Iron Kitchen Knife
???, 9 - Z HUNTER
???, 4 to 6 - Shit internet knife
300 Stainless (?), 3 - Butter Knife
Did the last time that Cedric dude get cited as having a clue it turned out that he didn't have a clue?
I'm pretty sure random youtubers are not reliable sources regardless of likes/followers.
So, if you are just restating their conclusions (which you have done already in another thread), what does the $20,000 you have invested in knives have to do with anything? How do your knives bring more credence to their results?
Remember who cited him?
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/the-best-steel-cut-tests-and-opinions.1571654/
Knife News
Just How Bad is Budget Blade Steel?
September 5, 2017
Pete of the Cedric & Ada YouTube channel uses an established, repeatable method to measure edge retention. To date, he has put more than 40 steels to the test on his channel – everything from high-end powder metallurgy steels to butter knife blade steel. We reached out to Pete for his assessment of how budget blade steel measures up to more expensive options.
Pete chooses edge retention as the key criteria to measure folding knife steel. “I want the fine slicing to last as long as possible,” he says. His cut tests, performed using a standardized edge bevel, cutting medium, and method, measure this characteristic, end when the knife can no longer cut printer paper. The testing medium is abrasive sisal rope, and Pete readily admits that this is a harder cut than most. But he finds that steels which fail to make 60-70 cuts in his testing translate to poor EDC options. “Knives that land below the 60 mark generally frustrate me when I carry them extensively as a daily user,” he says.
This metric rules out the standard budget steels on the market today: heat treat plays an important role in the performance of any steel, but in testing, Pete has found that AUS-8, 8Cr13MoV, and 440C all fail to meet the 60 cut mark. To put that in perspective, a modern super steel like CTS-XHP gets all the way to 242 cuts on Pete’s test. “A lot of marketing materials still claim that AUS-8 and 8Cr13Mov are high carbon steels with superior edge retention. This just isn’t true, and hasn’t been for a long time,” Pete says. Knives with these steels are far from unusable, but Pete believes the time has come for makers to offer better options – even at lower price points. “I just want a steel in my lower cost knives which holds a little longer than what’s widely used.”
Pete already sees this transition into the next generation of entry-level steels starting to happen. “Most budget knives come from China. China now seems to buy many decent to great American and European steels,” he says. 14C28N, the steel of choice for Ruike and Real Steel, made it past 70 cuts in Pete’s testing. CTS-BD1, seen on the overseas-produced Spyderco Polestar and Byrd Crow 2, as well as the new versions of the Cold Steel Voyager, made an impressive 112 cuts. “There’s so much choice and capability out there, it’s fair to ask budget makers to move upwards,” Pete states. “Not suddenly, but incrementally.”
In the meantime, Pete advocates a more honest representation of the current gamut of budget steels. “The most important thing is that those steels, if they are used, are not made out to be better than they are.” His testing is not meant to be definitive, but part of a larger process of education among knife enthusiasts. “An educated consumer will make a self-beneficial choice anyhow, and my work in the field only seeks to contribute to that good cause.”
Just How Bad is Budget Blade Steel?
September 5, 2017
Pete of the Cedric & Ada YouTube channel uses an established, repeatable method to measure edge retention. To date, he has put more than 40 steels to the test on his channel – everything from high-end powder metallurgy steels to butter knife blade steel. We reached out to Pete for his assessment of how budget blade steel measures up to more expensive options.
Pete chooses edge retention as the key criteria to measure folding knife steel. “I want the fine slicing to last as long as possible,” he says. His cut tests, performed using a standardized edge bevel, cutting medium, and method, measure this characteristic, end when the knife can no longer cut printer paper. The testing medium is abrasive sisal rope, and Pete readily admits that this is a harder cut than most. But he finds that steels which fail to make 60-70 cuts in his testing translate to poor EDC options. “Knives that land below the 60 mark generally frustrate me when I carry them extensively as a daily user,” he says.
This metric rules out the standard budget steels on the market today: heat treat plays an important role in the performance of any steel, but in testing, Pete has found that AUS-8, 8Cr13MoV, and 440C all fail to meet the 60 cut mark. To put that in perspective, a modern super steel like CTS-XHP gets all the way to 242 cuts on Pete’s test. “A lot of marketing materials still claim that AUS-8 and 8Cr13Mov are high carbon steels with superior edge retention. This just isn’t true, and hasn’t been for a long time,” Pete says. Knives with these steels are far from unusable, but Pete believes the time has come for makers to offer better options – even at lower price points. “I just want a steel in my lower cost knives which holds a little longer than what’s widely used.”
Pete already sees this transition into the next generation of entry-level steels starting to happen. “Most budget knives come from China. China now seems to buy many decent to great American and European steels,” he says. 14C28N, the steel of choice for Ruike and Real Steel, made it past 70 cuts in Pete’s testing. CTS-BD1, seen on the overseas-produced Spyderco Polestar and Byrd Crow 2, as well as the new versions of the Cold Steel Voyager, made an impressive 112 cuts. “There’s so much choice and capability out there, it’s fair to ask budget makers to move upwards,” Pete states. “Not suddenly, but incrementally.”
In the meantime, Pete advocates a more honest representation of the current gamut of budget steels. “The most important thing is that those steels, if they are used, are not made out to be better than they are.” His testing is not meant to be definitive, but part of a larger process of education among knife enthusiasts. “An educated consumer will make a self-beneficial choice anyhow, and my work in the field only seeks to contribute to that good cause.”
There have been no defensive personal attacks. Just people who disagree with the points you have been making throughout this thread.
For folks who don't want or expect to be disagreed with, I always suggest a blog.
Debunking bad information isn't a personal attack.
Cutting and pasting stuff that's on the web might spark a discussion but there's no rule on the site that everyone has to agree with what you've posted.
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