Wrong Doers Among Us....

[Josh Muller]

If someone makes a valid point, it will hold water on it's own and the origin shouldn't matter.

my comments on this were not meant to specifically adress the subject at hand - but rather the seemingly common practice of making accounts that are used for single subject threads (and then discarded), or for "comic relief".

if a valid point is brought up, thats fine. i still dont like seeing the manipulation of the bladeforums account set up for such purposes. but then, this is not my site, so these are personal opinions i probably should have left out.

And this relates to the topic at hand how? I appreciate what being a college student is all about but that is what your choosing to do. Are you softening us up for why it is morally ok in your opinion to gouge?

in order to acheive the goal of a college degree without federal backing or a parents pay check a person has to work full time, or part time at a high paying job. and even then it can be a struggle - selling what is available to them to sell at a low or "reasonably non gouging" price may not be enough.

there are a number of other valid examples of where it is very diffult to bring in a higher amount of income given the limitation of available time. selling knives at a price that people are willing to purchase them at that is high is a valid and useful way to keep yourself afloat when other means are very difficult.

You sound desperate Seth, dont go criminal on us. More of a build up why gouging is OK?

money is important. money brings stability. generally speaking, i cant say the same for high end production knives.

im not trying to advocate price grouging for the sole purpose of monetary gains, im saying that other sources of these knives are available, and price gouging exists for a reason.

it irks me when people describe it as some unstoppable evil that terrorizes the people when people actively pay the prices that are asked.

So, do it then. Does it have to be gouge or drop out and be on the street? How about maybe giving them the knives for what you paid as some of us do? That sounds fair to me and you wouldn't be losing a penny. This "I have to price gouge or I cant feed my family" stuff aint flyin with me. Your personal situation should have no bearing on the topic at hand.

again, money is important. I have personally lost money on every single busse sale i've ever made. but if I was willing to put them up at much higher prices: it would have benefitted me greatly. I've been extremely lucky with monetary windfalls at oppurtune times, enough that until now i havent worried about makeing a profit on any of my sales.

but to completely disregard the basic principle of making your money make more of it in order to obtain financial stability is assumeing that everyone should sacrifice personal gain every time they sell a busse that they could immediately make 25,50,100, 150$ more on.

i would absolutely hope that everyone would try to keep their prices low - but i dont like seeing people completely disregard the applicable reasoning for keeping your prices high.

It seems as though when comments and suggestions are made here people tend to get defensive. Let's call it like it is now. There's a lot more price gouging going on now, more than I ever remember. How does that help? It may put a little extra cash in someones pocket for the moment, but in the long run, I dont think it helps. If you need the money so bad you have to gouge, perhaps you shouldn't be buying in the first place, or maybe buying and selling drugs as there's more of a mark up.

50$ that buys you a starter for your car can help a great deal. it can help for years on end. "a little extra cash in someones pocket" isnt necessarily just extra cash, it may be for the essentials of a working life.

situations change. costs come up that you dont expect, and money can get sparce very quickly. 4,000$ in the bank can be immediately lost to medical bill or a crashed car. if you have to sell things to make up for a debt, you generally want to sell as little as possible for the greatest possible amount.

in regards to immediately purchasing 10 blades from the company store and immediately selling them for twice the price, the above doesnt seem to apply as much. money is important, and when a person sees an oppurtunity to make extra, it is an option. it isnt an option i would actively promote - but it happens for a reason.

suggesting that a person who needs money should turn to selling drugs isnt something i would suggest to anyone.

If someone buys a Hell Razor from the company store for $275, and then sells it a day later for $375, is that a good thing? Does that help? I dont think that makes them a bad person but I dont think it's cool. For those who disagree with INFI MAN, could you explain to me then what is good about this scenario?

thats the essential point i was trying to make - it's not a nice thing to do for the people looking to purchase the knife, but there are reasons to do it.

the company store was set up so that a stock of busse knife models could be made available for an extended period of time after production had stopped. this was seen as an important feature becuase of the individual model production run set up that is now in place.

the prices at the company store are the same as if you purchased the knife during the production run, so it is not an endeavor to make extra money, rather an effort to extend models that are no longer produced to customers who were unaware of their production when available.

this a nice idea, and to some degree it has worked, in that it has brought a supply of busse knives that are no longer produced into the market at msrp albeit at random times.

because of the instant availability of the knives, for those who have enough money to purchase them: it makes immediate turn around sales much more accesible then purchasing them directly from busse combat.

money is important. when the opportunity to purchase in demand items at a set price, and sell them immediately for a profit is available, price gouging will happen.

What if you all found out tomorrow that INFI MAN was Jerry? You would all drop to your knees and shudder chanting "were not worthy, we're not worthy". ? Perhaps you should ask him what his take is on price gouging ?

nope. i'd have said everything i said here. disregarding the validity of price gouging is accepting a form of ignorance to human reasoning, regardless of who states it.

if jerry said that he wanted everyone on this forum to stop price gouging - there isnt much he could do to stop it. maybe getting spark to ban all busse sales, maybe putting a ban on any customer found gouging or maybe closing the company store.

i would do my best to abide by jerry's wishes where his products are concerned, as much as i try to abide by the wishes of my freinds. jerry has never done me wrong, and as long as im not in a position to be put on the street, im not going to go balls out for profit.

price gouging only works if the market will bear it. if you are not willing to pay 600$ for a model that msrp's at 327$ - do not buy it.

the problem with price gouging comes from the personal regret of purchasing something at a higher price then is possibly obtainable, or the feelings of being slighted in your purchase. when i buy a knife, i pay what im willing to pay, and not a penny more. if its a gouged price - it is my choice and my choice alone to pay it and keep such prices around.

these are not life and death commodities, and there are much cheaper alternatives readily available. if it was food stuffs going to an impoverished area - then i'd have a serious problem with it. with a high end knife - you buy what you want.

so if it's jerry whose posting these things, i stand by what i've said.

price gouging may not be pleasent for the person looking to buy a knife, but its something that happens for a reason. if you dont like it, dont pay the asked price. the company store is available to whoever can get their payment in first, my chances are just as good as someone who is looking to make an instant turn around sale.

 

[flatlander]

Seth, I agree with you. If nobody buys the "too high priced knife" then the price will get reduced. If somebody does buy it then it was a fair market value deal. If you have buyers remorse then stop whining and take your lumps as a lesson learned.
As for the fake names issue, I don't care for it. How are you suppose to get to know someone and trust them to maybe do buisness with or respect their opinions when they aren't being honest to start with by using more than 1 screen name? I don't bow to ANY man.

Bob Mills

 

[Eric Isaacson]

. . . and some of their very best designs are suddenly discontinued, with no prior warning.

Thus, a knife that was being produced earlier this month, sold out last week, and was just announced (or implied) that it has been discontinued suddenly becomes a "rare" and expensive blade.

Seems like the market is being manipulated a bit.

It's a shame that some of the best knives Busse has ever made have been forever dropped from their line . . . "Oh, but then they wouldn't be collectible."

Tyr
Welcome to the Busse Forum, I'm glad that you stopped by. I understand that you have recently just started posting on this forum and I appreciate your input. I hope you stick around and join in our discussions.
However, as a new person to the Busse addiction that are a couple of problems with your post. Here's how the system currently works
1) Busse Combat lists 1 or 2 specific models for sale on their website (that is currently down for updating) You can order these knives with your specific handle and blade color combinations, you can order as many as you want in as many different combinations that you want. There is a wait for these knives usually 8-12 weeks.
2) The Busse Company Store also places an order at this time for the most popular color combinations, they have to wait also.
3) There is ample time to place your order for your specific color combination on the website (usually 2 months) before it is removed from the website for custom color orders.
4) After plenty of time to order Jerry removes the old model for a new model
5) The knives start shipping to the individuals that ordered off of the website first.
6) The Company Store later receives their shipment of knives that they had to order, they try to order enough to last several months or longer. This is often the case, there have been AK47's, PBS's, HR's, SJTacLE's available for long periods of time. For months some of these were available before they sold out.

There is plenty of opportunity and warning that a model will no longer be available to order from the main website. Usually, as in the War Boar, people on this forum start complaining about when the next model will be available.

The only models that there is not ample opportunity to order are the limited or custom pieces that Jerry makes available during the Extravaganza's and he also indicates that these orders are first come, first served.

There is ample opportunity to order the base models of the line at the regular price both from the Main Site and the Company Store site.

I hope this helps with how things are made and sold around here, it is a little confusing at first but feel free to ask questions, everyone is willing to help answer honest questions.

Edited to add: Busse main site web address www.bussecombat.com
Busse Company Store website www.bussecompanystore.com

 

[MikeH]

Eric: In keeping with the theme of this thread, I expect you to sell me a couple of SH-1's for $247.00 each. I'll pay the shipping.

 

[Josh Muller]

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=311810&highlight=protocol

as an addition to erics post:

after a knife is taken down, the initial intent (as shown in the above link) is to restart the run once all the models have been offered. so the knives that are currently up are tentatively scheduled to be reintroduced once the entire line has cycled through.

the reason for offering 1 or 2 models at a time is to keep shipping times down, and offer more options with each blade.

as far as the best models busse has ever produced being forever dropped from the line: the majority of the popular models from the past lines are present in the new line, with what jerry feels are improvements in handle and blade design.

while all of them are not available currently becuase of the new production protocol, they are scheduled to be reintroduced later on.

 

[flatlander]

Eric: In keeping with the theme of this thread, I expect you to sell me a couple of SH-1's for $247.00 each. I'll pay the shipping.

Eric- $225 and you pay shipping

Bob Mills

 

[MikeH]

By the way, since I'm going to be away for a couple of days, I would like to say generically "Wow, what a great price." Anyone who wants to may link this to their "for sale" thread. (Busse only. I don't know crap about CRK or Strider prices.)

 

[Eric Isaacson]

Mike and Bob,
You guys are very generous


You know what ticks me off? It's those guys that bought Microsoft stock when it was $2 a share. Man it burns my butt that they won't sell it to me for $4 a share, afterall they are making 2 times what they paid for it. Who cares that they had to take a risk in buying it, hoping that it might go up, and maybe losing all their money.

I can't stand those guys, trying to take advantage of me and selling for what it's worth. Stinking capitalists

 

[Raden]

INFIMAN

Since your a coward hiding behind a false username, I consider that a troll. The prices basically fall to supply and demand. If someone buy's a knife and decides they need to put the money elsewhere then they sell it, if they can make a few bucks why shouldn't they. Personally I wouldn't buy a very new knife at a high markup, but that is up to the person forking over the cash. The market prices are usually set here on these forums, and if someone has sold one for more then he/she is raising the market value of the blade. If you don't want to pay the price then don't.... but don't go making up a fake ID like a crybaby.

Truth hurts.... don't it???

 

[Bravado]

Geez Infi Man thank you for your advice and profound wisdom, with your 11 postings you surely know what you're talking about here on the Busse Forum.:jerkit:

 

[Briggz]

Well being that I was one of the persons putting up knives yesterday at prices greater than what I paid I will post my comments here.

SUCK IT UP and STOP WHINING.

Either buy the knife if you want it at the $ I post or don't I really could not care one way or the other.

If it does not sell at the posted price then the it will be lowered, maybe.

I wonder what your opioion is on the wait times and prices of the Company store and regular website

 

[kukula]

Ey Briggz now that you mentioned it, i realized i was one of those shill for you and how the prices were great!

To Infiman, I honestly meant it when I said that. Think about when one of these beauts will be made again, if ever. I would have bought it outright myself if if only I hadnt an incoming shipment of three more Busses

Oh and I am no jaded forumer here with old friends or so. I am but a PIGLET

 

[SkunkWerX]

Hi guys, I'm new to this forum, have been reading quite a bit, and learning a lot.
By the time I realized how great the Busse's were, the last HellRazors had been sold, drat!! So, as a newb to Busse knives, I sit, in the middle of production cycle, no supply available, waiting for the next model to be offered.

I see the personal sales, the transactions, and they do go very rapidly in a majority of the cases. It's a free market economy, or seems to be.

To play devils advocate, just for a moment, I'll use the Microsoft stock analogy above, as I know a little bit about stocks. It's a good analogy regarding pure capitalism, however a bit too general to be applied to a commodity that is not quite as abundant as the millions of shares of stock that are traded daily.
Stocks are typically purchased with the intent to trade them at some point, it's an inherant part of the overall tranaction. If Busse knives are being purchased with the sole intent to sell, at a later time, then it is only causing inflation in the prices. But, with that said, it can only occur when there is the associated demand.

Stock trading is tightly regulated, knife trading is not. This is not an attack on Eric's post, because he does make a valid point about selling one's personal property. If knife trading is not regulated, and not unlawful, by all means, list the knives at $1000 a pop! Just be aware that if they are purchased, it will eventually serve to drive up the prices at the front end, since this is purely a supply & demand issue. A businessman is not going to sit by, sell knives for $299, when they are being resold for $400, months later. They will end up doing one of two things: raising their prices OR produce more to satisfy the demand. Those are the two ways to increase revenue.
If the aftermarket price is that much greater, then, the business in question is "leaving money on the table". Watch for prices to rise, and/or the production to increase. If Busse thinks they could have sold 1,000 more knives, and they make a mere $50 per knife, well, we can all do that math.

I only play devil's advocate, in order to lead into my concern (and other newbs apparent concerns) with regard to obtaining a Busse model, when they become available.
My concern was that the "experienced" folks were waiting for the moment of offering, then pouncing on the available supply, buying multiple copies, for the sole and express purpose of reselling them later, for a tidy profit. That is the perception. And, I would suggest this entire discussion is 90% about perception.

Eric, thank you for your explanation above, to Tyr, as it sounds like us newbs won't be squeezed out from a direct purchase, and should have enough time to place our orders. My concerns are now lessened somewhat. Until now, there seemed as if there was something like "Insider Trading" going on. No insult intended, no finger pointing, just a perception thing.

In order to profit as a collector, the collector must purchase a given commodity that is in limited supply, yet will have ongoing demand beyond the point where the supply has become diminished.

In the case of Busse knives, there is some leftover demand, beyond the production run, but, I would submit that it is very small population of people who are demanding them. High demand, but, by a small group.
It's a delicate balance. If there is one person willing to pay twice the purchased price of one of the knives, then there is probably a seller out there ready to take the money, ahhh, capitalism.

To end my post, I have some general questions...
-Does anyone know, for instance, how many HellRazors were Produced/Sold by Busse before they went out of stock?
-Are we talking 1,000 or 10,000? or more?
-How long were they posted for sale at the Busse site?
_What was their base price, and what are they selling for now?

Now, for the big GUESS, how many HellRazor's have changed hands, since they went out of supply?

Just some trivia questions to get a better feel for the situation.

 

[Yager]

i am still waiting for INFIMAN to list some of his knives for sale at "the same price that you got it at. Maybe a little more to cover shipping or to match the market price".
INFIMAN, if you do not use this name to list the knives, please let me know your other screen name so i can watch for them, thanks!

 

[Sus scrofa]

Coming from an old timer I feel the need to add.

Infi Man, you get what you pay for, take a pill, have a drink or two.

This is America, Home of the Brave, Land of the Free, Stomping Grounds of the HOGS !

Four Score and Seven Infi's ago I thought the price...

Nevermind, I shouldn't have had that double martini a few minutes ago.

Cleaner, You am my Hero :thumbup:

 

[brianNH]

my comments on this were not meant to specifically adress the subject at hand - but rather the seemingly common practice of making accounts that are used for single subject threads (and then discarded), or for "comic relief".

Why make comments then if they dont relate to the issue at hand? Clearly, the original posters intent wasn't a prank or done for "comic relief".

if a valid point is brought up, thats fine. i still dont like seeing the manipulation of the bladeforums account set up for such purposes.

Let it go Seth, it didn't happen here. It was not a manupilation of a bladeforums account to post as the thread starter did here. Why cant you understand this?

in order to acheive the goal of a college degree without federal backing or a parents pay check a person has to work full time, or part time at a high paying job. selling what is available to them to sell at a low or "reasonably non gouging" price may not be enough.

Reasonable non gouging may not be enough? That's fine but your advocating gouging here (make note to one self). Why cant making a sacrifice and selling at a fair price be enough?

there are a number of other valid examples of where it is very diffult to bring in a higher amount of income given the limitation of available time. selling knives at a price that people are willing to purchase them at that is high is a valid and useful way to keep yourself afloat when other means are very difficult.

It may be valid to you, some call it screwing. More justification for gouging. "I've got to feed my family, I'm gonna stick it to someone".

im not trying to advocate price grouging for the sole purpose of monetary gains, im saying that other sources of these knives are available, and price gouging exists for a reason.

Price gouging is price gouging, period, and the reason doesn't matter. So, according to your philosophy price gouging is ok so long as it's for tuition expenses, rent, or food, and everything else would be for "momentary gains" which would then make it wrong then?

it irks me when people describe it as some unstoppable evil that terrorizes the people when people actively pay the prices that are asked.

Of course it does because you believe gouging is ok. Whether people agree to pay the price or not is insignificant and does not address the issue at hand as to whether gouging is fair, moral, or a nice thing to do all of which I already know the answer to.

again, money is important. I have personally lost money on every single busse sale i've ever made. but if I was willing to put them up at much higher prices: it would have benefitted me greatly. I've been extremely lucky with monetary windfalls at oppurtune times, enough that until now i havent worried about makeing a profit on any of my sales.

So you've never believed in gouging but now because your financial situation changed you do?

i would absolutely hope that everyone would try to keep their prices low - but i dont like seeing people completely disregard the applicable reasoning for keeping your prices high.

Of course you would hope that people kept prices low, especially if you're on the buying end. But at the same time, you have a list of specific criteria to suit your needs which would justify people selling high (porking)?

if you have to sell things to make up for a debt, you generally want to sell as little as possible for the greatest possible amount.

Oh sure. By using the "high pork factor" method, you could sacrifice less.

thats the essential point i was trying to make - it's not a nice thing to do for the people looking to purchase the knife, but there are reasons to do it.

I really hated to screw over that old lady that bought my used car, but I had to do what I had to do, I got bills you know, and she paid every penny I asked with a smile so it was ok.


I just sold an FSH with an Okuden sheath. I added up the cost of the knife, the sheath, and the total shipping I paid. I considered the fact I sliced one or two things, and I also considered the demand. All things considered, my asking price with shipping was less than what I paid by about $50. At the same time, I have bills up the wazoo, 2 sons in college who I'm always giving money to, unexpected bills, and the list goes on. I probably could have charged $100 or more and gotten it. Why didn't I? because I DIDN'T THINK IT WAS FAIR. Using your logic Seth, asking another $100 would have been fair and justified because I meet specific financial criteria, however, if it was for "momentary gain" (i.e another knife) it wouldn't have been right.

I think the original poster meant no harm, and his point was simply a message to take care of your fellow Hogs and try to be fair. Immidiately he was challenged. Ever hear the old saying "the guilty dog barks first"?

What this boils down to is a moral issue and there are 2 sides of the fence here. Being fair, and being a weasel. Anyone who challenges and uses weak, twisted logic to argue what the original poster wrote may just as well sign up for being on the "weasel" side.

Seth, I wish you luck in school and with finances, however, I cant subsribe to your theory, or anyone elses for that matter of overcharging due to financial situations or just because people are willing to pay. Basically, what this says is it's ok to screw people if they let you.

 

[brianNH]

This thread is what's gonna seperate the HOGS from the WEASELS...

pick your poison !! :barf:

 

[Progunner]

Since we are operating in a free market economy, I suggest that the two of you not purchase from those whose prices you deem to high and allow the rest of us to make up our own minds as to what we are willing to pay.

I agree. If the market won't support it, the price will not remain high.

As for someone :shilling" for another, I am not sure that is what happens in all cases. I know I have commented on occasion when someone has a good price, but I often hold an comment if I think the guy is trying to rob someone. It takes an informed consumer to judge if the price is good or not. That is why I am a big fan of leaving the final selling price in the posts. It gives us watchers a chance to make note of the going prices so we don't get caught paying too much.

 

[Progunner]

As a newbie and a buyer, I have an idea that may be a little far-fetched. and anti capitalist. which Id hate to be.

But if some of the old timers could get together and put together a ball park fair market value list of all popular non costum models. Given the most recent data available. Well that would be helpful to us newbies. But to me, it seems like, somtimes you gotta offer a lot to get people to part with their beloved possessions. i guess prices might be a little subjective, anyway, i dont know. maybe its just common sense ?

The problem is that the sellers, all too often, remove the final selling price from their posts and if you are not actively tracking an item or all items for sale, then you have not got a chance to collect all the data. I try to keep mental notes as I look around, but my mind isn't what it used to be. I sure don't have time to actively track all the knives for sale, I wish I did. I'd sell the list, how's that for capitalism?

 

[Progunner]

I see it as taxing the system and avoiding credibility to an actual account that was started with the purpose of being an active forum member. starting accounts for a one purpose thread, and for that matter any multiple accounts at all , is wasteful, unless you intend on having a dealers account (a paid for bussiness account) and a forum members account (personal).

Not too mention it is specifically against forum rules and grounds for banning, if I recall correctly. That is not to say that no one ever does it, but if they become a problem, they can be dealt with by Spark.