WSK Design Ownership Who has right to reproduce?

Stephan,

I know that Dave has a number of Tracker blanks on his shop wall. However due to his medical problems he has not been able to work on them. I now that he goes out to his shop and works on small blades now and then for friends and old customers, he did say that when he gets a Tracker made he will put it on ebay to get the best money he can, I dont think that he will take orders. I will try to call Dave next week and have an update for everyone.

Ralph
 
Thanks for that Ralph, I understand and don't blame him . . I know that's what I would do, esp. if i had huge medical bills!
 
Did Dave ever get sued or threatened with lawsuit from TB? I heard that he was along with Roger Linger and then TB backed down.
 
Bartman2

I dont now if TB ever went after Dave but that is a good question and I will ask Dave when I talk to him ext week

Ralph
 
Ralph,

Can you ask him to talk on the thread to shed some light on the real story so we can see if the TB threats are just the BS everyone thinks it is. If he has it he has it but is he just a guy trying to control the market.
I heard that TB was coming out with new knife anyway. I don't think shutting someone out and getting negative attention will do anything in his favor for the new knife. Is TOPS making these new versions? Has anyone seen the new design?
 
This is from the TOPS website.

Tom Brown Tracker News



Tuesday, March 4th, 2003

To Whom It May Concern:

The Tom Brown Tracker knife has recently achieved a high degree of notoriety. It plays an integral role in the 2003 Paramount Pictures release of The Hunted. TOPS USA is the only authorized manufacturer of the Tom Brown Tracker Knife. Anyone else claiming to be an authorized manufacturer of the Tracker is not currently authorized by Tom Brown. TOPS began manufacturing the knife under license from Tom Brown in November of 2001. The Tom Brown Tracker was designed by Tom Brown Jr., over the course of seven years, and was manufactured by several knife makers up through 1999. None of the former manufactures are currently licensed to make the Tom Brown Tracker.

P.S. Mr. Dave Beck, one of the four previous makers of the “Tom Brown Tracker Knife”; was in fact offered the option to manufacture this knife on two separate occasions in the year 2000. Mr. Beck did in fact decline, both times. He also sent a letter to Tom Brown stating that he no longer intended to manufacture the “Tom Brown Tracker Knife” and forfeited any and all rights to any future manufacturing of this knife.


Signed,

Tom Brown Jr.

Tom Brown’s Tracking, Nature, & Wilderness Survival School
P0 Box 173
Ashbury, NJ 08802
(909) 479-4681
 
I see that my situation has been discussed on the forum.
Good thing Red Scorpion Six Blades, Dave Beck or anyone else is not making the Tom Brown Tracker knife. We are not authorized to produce the Tom Brown Tracker Knife, this is true. Note that we have never made such claims or implied such associations.
We feel our knife is quite different and took the work of Dave Beck as inspiration and have several design differences to that knife.

I see that my situation has been discussed on the forum. All I can say about is it right now is that no Trademark, Patent, or Copyright # has been referrenced or referred to nor have we been accused of violating this type of offense. I have counsel and I have had direct talks with Tom Brown's organization and we are working through some issues.
I really can not go into much details but we are not going out of business yet and it is not our plan to do so. Thank you for your support.
Aaron
RS6 Blades, LLC
 
As far as a copyright is concerned, there is no requirement for registration. What is below is taken from the U.S. Copyright Office website.

Copyright protection subsists from the time the work is created in fixed form. The copyright in the work of authorship immediately becomes the property of the author who created the work. Only the author or those deriving their rights through the author can rightfully claim copyright.

The way in which copyright protection is secured is frequently misunderstood. No publication or registration or other action in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright. There are, however, certain definite advantages to registration.

Copyright is secured automatically when the work is created.

The knife itself can not be protected by a copyright, but the design, which is considered intellectual property, can be. It may have to be left up to a court to decide if the design of the Tracker meets the requirements of an intellectual property copyright.
 
But the question I would have is and that I understood the situation is that Dave was the Original Design Architech of the knife in it's present configuration of look and appearance and functionality. Since he(Tom) never made or was a knife manufacturer that would belong to the individual who PRODUCED the work itself or at least how I undestand the above statement.
 
If what it states on the TOPS website is true, and that Tom Brown designed the knife and had Dave Beck manufacture it, it is Tom Brown that is the owner of the copyright. The line below is also taken from the U.S. Copyright Office website.

In the case of works made for hire, the employer and not the employee is considered to be the author.

If the design was a joint effort, then both are considered owners of the copyright.
 
I guess only Dave and Tom know the truth to that story. That would bring to light the answers this thread seeks.

But I think that if this be the case then the ancient knifemakers families should be entitled to reparations of payment for the first guy who put an edge on steel and called it a knife, since everyone from that moment has improved upon his design. Now that would be a class action. lol
I guess I am just too much of a common sense kind of guy. Maybe just simple.

I have the utmost respect for Tom Brown and his organization. Although I have never met him or had dealings with him other than this incident. I think he produces some good work. He and I just seem to view this differently and we are working it out. Any threat I would possibly pose is limited anyway since we are a limiting production and he is a guru to his following and they will still be with him at the end of the day. I hardly think Tom would be losing sleep over our little company's activities.
 
Bartman2

I know that Dave does check out the forums but he does not post. As far as I can remember Dave designed the original Tracker. I really need to talk to him and get some things cleared up. I do remember Dave telling me that he produced a little over 600 Trackers.
 
got a call from Bartman2. Looks like Cougar has killed him and banned him from futher postings. he has walked the plank for some comments he made on another thread.
He asked me to inform you in the event you wanted a response from him on anything. lol
Call a medic Bart is down. I say again the Bartman is down.
Perhaps now he can chill out and stop posting my business around.
 
Dan Schectman,

I believe you have seen our Predator WSK up close, what did you think of it?
 
sorry Longbaugh,
Steve Dick of Tactical Knives had us send a knife under the pretnese of a review and had Dan supposedly review it and do article but has said that he could not do the review because of my legal situation of which he was privy to long before I was. That was interesting.
 
OK guys, you've gotten my attention.
So the "Big Bad Wolf" is huffin & puffin & trying to scare all the little piggies out of his barnyard & doesn't want to let them play. Well maybe I can help.
I have heard that Tom Brown is giving some of you a hard time about using "HIS" design. He's probably pissed off because he's not making out as well as he'd like due to the competition. Maybe if they produced a higher quality product of better design there wouldn't be as much.
Well first off I don't believe he has any rights. He didn't the last I checked, only alot of money to tie up & out last the little guy in court. That's probably all that is needed.
Remember, in legal issues, it doesn't always matter who is right or wrong but who can financially outlast their competition. I believe that's the case here but if you are one who is making a Tracker or WSK pattern, I would strongly suggest you consult a very good pattent attorny to make certain of where you stand. Spend a little money & have them do some very thorough research for you. It does pay to be safe.
Then take what I have to say because these are the facts & maybe it will help you out.

What's this?! Yeah, I come from the old school where craftsmen in a trade were thought of as family & helped each other out. They shared information,
techniques & supported each other. I don't speak out much here but I feel it's time to add my two cents. I think there are some who may need it.

The TRACKER knife design has been around for a long time.
Tom Brown developed the initial "Medicine Blade" design. He never made the knife, sold the knife or owned any rights to it. He really didn't get involved making a version until his partnership with the TOPS company in 2001 as claimed. In the beginning, Toms' "Medicine Blade" design was produced by another who made the knife & sold it to his own customers.
Tom only recommended them to his students.
When I came along, I completely reconfigured the pattern to my own design. None of Toms' influence involved other than the origional "Medicine Blade" concept. Sure, he had suggestions but he isn't a knifemaker. The design as we know it today, the one used in "The Hunted" is my own developement. The business arrangement was the same. There wasn't one. It was my business. I made the knives. I sold them to MY customers. His only involvement was recommending them to his students because he wanted them to have a good knife.
During the time between 1991 to around 1999 I continued manufacturing my design & I was the first & from what I know, the only person to own the Trademark "TRACKER" which was awarded by the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office. During this time frame many other knifemakers also made their own versions although mine developed to be the most popular.
As my knife became more in damand & famous amoung the "survival" crowd & elete military, I was often approached by Tom who was looking for a partnership. I repeatedly declined knowing anothers influence & desire to mass produce the knife would only reduce quality. I wanted to keep trying to make it better & I knew the only way was to keep it hand-made.
Shortly after, sales declined & not having the finances or internet knowledge to market my work, I had to close shop & seek work in a different field to support my family. I had also dropped my trademark at that time as it seemed the design was dying.

I am not someone who believes they had designed the magical "Sword in the Stone" as some seem to think they have & want to prevent others from making their versions. I feel it's a great injustice that anyone should be prevented from making these knives. If anyone should feel aggitated, it should be me but I certainly don't have any hard feelings about anyone copying my work. I just like to recieve credit for my contributions.

When "The Hunted" was released in 2003, my knife was used. My knife, the "BECK TRACKER" not the "Tom Brown Tracker" was used in "The Hunted" movie. My knife was used as a pattern for the props. I was given no credit while another claimed their knife was used in the film & knife magazines also supported that claim. Steven Dick who ran an article about my knife in the spring 1995 issue of Tactical Knives magazine knew about my knife & that it was in the film. Anyone could see the difference between the movie knife & the TOPS copy. Yet Tactical Knives failed to recognize my work for the film & fed his readers more B.S. I'm sure it had nothing to do with huge revenue Harris Publications was collecting & wanted to continue collecting from TOPS for all the adds they run each issue. Well that was enough & I got pissed! I decided to go back into business to bring back MY knife & show everyone where the design really came from & prove that the hand-crafted knife is still superior.

Another issue I see is that Tom claims to have a letter stating I gave him my rights to produce the "Tom Brown Tracker". I can't recall such a letter but if it does exist then I would say that statement may be true. I didn't want to make the "Tom Brown Tracker". I wanted only to make the Dave Beck TRACKER knife. I didn't like the changes he wanted & I think in comparing the two we can all see why. So I never gave up the rights to manufacture MY knife & I have a very good attorny who confirmed that.

It is well known that my pattern came after the "Medicine Blade". If you look at the "Tom Brown Tracker knife" it's easy to see that it was greatly influenced by my work. That's clear. So now who is using whos' ideas?

Comming back was good for me. It gave the the finances to get a much needed surgery done. I didn't stop because of legal problems. I have the legal right to manufacture my knife. I simply decided my family was more important than making knives. When I made knives I spent much less time with them. I've made a good choice.
I'm also happy to be out of the trade because I hate to see where it's going. There's too much B.S. I hate to see fellow knifemakers having problems like this. If everyone stuck together & supported each other in their trade there may be less of this nonsense. What's next? Will someone come out with a new "RAMBO" type knife & say nobody is allowed to produce their pattern because it looks too similar?!

If Tom & TOPS are pissed that others are copying their pattern, fine. Don't use it. Copy mine. Everyone has my permission. Copy the knife from the movie. Tell them you were influenced by my work as they are. As far as I am concerned, this knife has been produced by so many knifemakers, in so many variations for so long it should be concidered public domain. No body should be able to claim exclusive rights to it. Use my design & have fun with it.
I'm not going to piss & moan & throw a child-like temper tantrum. I want everyone who wants to copy my knife to make as many as they like. Hell, who knows, if all this keeps up I may just form a partnership myself with one of the inspiring knifemakers on this forum & give them my pattern & let them sell thousands of them & endorse them. OK, I'm getting riled. The point is, I feel this knife is for everyone & anyone who wants to make it should be able to.
If I can assist with any questions anyone may have just ask. I'll be following this discussion every few days.

David R. Beck
 
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