WSK Design Ownership Who has right to reproduce?

Hey Mr. Beck,

Don't know if you're still monitoring this thread, but I'm glad to have one of your custom WSKs. It served me very well in Iraq, and definitely raised a few eyebrows. A shame it's not nearly as pretty and shiny anymore...;)
 
SGT Fitts,
I'm happy to hear your knife worked well for you. It may not be as pretty but now it has character. My knives have seen duty in many conflicts & active areas around the globe & I constantly recieve positive responses on their performance so I know it will serve you well for many years to come.

David R. Beck
 
DRBeckKnives said:
A copy right might be applied but the protection it offers is probably very limited & wouldn't protect the design. I highly doubt that Tom Brown would have sought a copyright for any type of protection. If his knife would have been used in the film then there might have been some benefit to having this.
As far as the term "TRACKER" goes, that would be protected by a trademark. If you remember, that was the legal discrepancy I got into with Tom when I began making my knives again. Everyone knew my pattern as the TRACKER knife & owning that right could be important to some. The problem I ran into is that even though I did own the trademark at one time, once you drop it & let it pass beyond a year of expiration & then reapply for the mark, the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office looks at it as if you are using it for the first time & it's ownership rights are then open for challenge by others. Even though I probably could have regained the Trademark, the cost of a court battle for it would have been more than its worth for the amount of knives I was producing. I got around the problem by simply changing the name to the BECK WSK (Wilderness Survival Knife). As long as my name was on the blade, everyone would know the difference no matter what I called it.

David R. Beck
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So how can they do all of this advertising that the TRACKER by TOPS was in the movie "The Hunted"? Wouldn't that be misleading and false?
It was clearly your knife. Has anyone brought issue with this claim?
 
In regards to the Paratraxx. . . .DO NOT BUY! Its made in Pakistan. . . .

My guess is, the steel is from a truck axle. . . .

Anyways, good design overall, but I am not so sure about the long term quality of it. . . Must be something wrong with it being made in Pakistan if there is not one mention of that fact in the ad at axtionbladez. . . .

Michael
 
dc2005 said:
In regards to the Paratraxx. . . .DO NOT BUY! Its made in Pakistan. . . .

My guess is, the steel is from a truck axle. . . .
Click to expand...

Doubtful, if the steel is that good. A truck axle might just make a good knife. ;) :)
 
redscorpion6 said:
So how can they do all of this advertising that the TRACKER by TOPS was in the movie "The Hunted"? Wouldn't that be misleading and false?
It was clearly your knife. Has anyone brought issue with this claim?
Click to expand...


Aside from being left out of the movie credits, this claim was the final straw that pissed me off enough to bring my knives back for sale again & what created such a contrivercy as to who actually designed & made the knife seen in the film as we know it. Because of this I had to fight hard to get any credit for my many years of work on this knife.
There are many who had purchased the TOPS/Tom Brown knockoff of the movie knife because of this claim. They thought that they were buying the same knife used in the film until it arrived & became angered that it wasn't the knife they saw in the movie. I spoke to many angered folks who felt they were ripped off due to this claim & the way the knives were marketed.
In my understanding, if you are promoting an item for sale as one which has been used or seen in some way & are selling that actual product, that's one thing & is an acceptable & privilaged business practice. If you are making claims about your product which aren't true in order to create sales then that is misleading the consumer with false advertisement. They would be misrepresenting their product to intentionally fool their customers. This would certainly be unlawful. Although I don't feel I should comment or make accusations on the marketing tactics that TOPS or Tom Brown employ to sell their products, I will say that their "Tracker" knife is only their interpretation of the knife used in "The Hunted" & was not the one used.
If anyone feels they were taken advantage of by the way TOPS or Tom Brown have been promoting their knife, the issue should be brought to the attention of your District Attourney or Attourney General. They would look into businesses who present false & misleading information & employ whatever legal actions are warrented protect the consumer.
 
Based on Mr. Beck's post, I would think that RS6-Blades' case has two strong legs to stand on. That would also go for whoever else decides to emulate the WSK design. Am I way off here?
 
DRBeckKnives said:
If anyone feels they were taken advantage of by the way TOPS or Tom Brown have been promoting their knife, the issue should be brought to the attention of your District Attourney or Attourney General. They would look into businesses who present false & misleading information & employ whatever legal actions are warrented protect the consumer.
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Do I smell a class action brewing? lol.

They have a good knife though. Just not the movie knife as I can see. Perhaps it was the one that was forged on the side of the river...hhmmm....:rolleyes:
 
Yes, TB jr. does have an ego on him the size of....well....his Hummer maybe? back when I went to the tracker school (98? the Hummer was new) when they were practically selling the Beck WSK out of the school, he said that he had collaborated on the design with Beck, I don’t hear beck complaining about his half (or all?) of the design rights from Tops.

Not to get off subject but an interesting side rant. It seems like when all the variety of people that do attend the tracker school get there, many of them know NOTHING of knives and allot didn't even bring one! This would seem to me to be an excellent opportunity to offer the students a brief and accurate overview of knives, uses, care and sharpening, some decent makers, etc. to set them on the right track. WRONG! Its time to make money off of ignorance. First off when I went there the only knife they sold was this one: http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=FT860
and (promoted) the Tracker (it was called that back then I think). obviously the $12 Scandinavian knife is not going to do what you need it to during the course of that school, so why do they sell it? Why not give you a choice of some other reasonably priced and more usfull knives? good question. without any mention of any other decent knife existing, Tom goes straight into the pitch of how you NEED his tracker knife to survive, that its the only one and so on and so on. and what do the masses do, well now that tops is conveniently making a mass produced model for ONLY $300 (back then the Beck was like $250 or something).......... well you spent $700 on the class (its more now isn’t it?) might as well have a crappy knife to go with it for $300. anyway my two cents. Oh and when I went there they were also promoting the Razor’s Edge sharpening system, well I wont get into that one for now.
 
Thanks for opening up your design, Dave Beck. You have been a tremendous help with the furthering of my knifemaking. I hope I am doing your knife justice....
 
Hey,

got on the ebay monster and look at what I found, an exact copy of TOPS Tracker. This may bring a whole new issue on Design rights because they are using the Tom Braun Tracker name on their knife with logo copy. HMMM....
20070309-093.jpg

Item #280094961703

Notice no TOPS logo on handle. Wait until TB Jr. see's this one.
They even have the Scout version.
20070226-069.jpg
 
looks like the TRACKER design is truly open now. will be interesting to see how this gets handled.
 
If TOPS would sell it at a price that it was worth then the need for somebody to make a cheap copy would not exist. The design is well respected and a peice of American history. The person that comes out with a production version that sells for $80 will corner the market on these even if they are china made. I collect WSK's and have to admit that most set in a display case. Only the Paratraxx gets out in the wild or recruited for yard work. Why? It's cheap and I will not puke my guts up or have a heart attack if something happens to it.
 
it's good to see designs like this hitting the market. the WSK is too cool to fade away...

IMG_4093.JPG



plus some classics :)


IMG8075-XL.jpg


would like to see something like the EVO Jensen come back someday. i'm patient :D
 
this part:

DRBeckKnives said:
Thank you all for the kind words. It's greatly appreciated.

Longbaugh,
Basically, there were two std. lengths of blades but other sizes were fabricated for special requests.
There were four handle variations including one which had a steel pummel for pounding.
I had ten Tracker knife variations in all that were standard offerings. Customers could have ordered one of those with a vast array of handle material, blade finishes & steel types or have one specially modified to suit their needs. There were also four different smaller companion knives which could have been added. One of these, my "Kestrel" was also seen in "The Hunted" during a brief scene in the subway where the knife was thrown into an agents neck.
I am not certain what you mean as the batoning process but I did prefer the saw teeth up front & never cut them the all the way back to the handle without the recess. The forward position was important because the saw was really only used for cutting square notches for plug-type trap triggers.
This type of cut is difficult to make in the field without some sort of special tool. The reason this feature was important is because a plug type trap trigger is very versatile & can hold the extra weight of heavier, more loadbearing traps. It also placed the trap wire going to your deadfall of other device used tightly against the support (tree, etc) that the plug was set into for better consealment & safe from obstructions which could come into contact & tamper with your set.

If I recall right, there were five variations prior to comming up with the "C" model (which was the one used in the film). I would have to check my records but the "C" model TRACKER was introduced somewhere between 1991 - 1993 if I recall right.

I don't attend many rendesvous anymore. Rather than playing the woodsman I'd rather live it. We also took up kayaking last year & that's kind of became an obsession with me. Right now I'm designing a sea kayak I'd like to build in my shop now that I moved my knifemaking equipment off to the side.

There was another question posted about a copyright.
A copyright is something which would protect something of art. Example: A picture, song, statue, etc. Although it could apply to the knife if you looked at it as an art form, copyrights generally don't apply to something which has utilitarian uses. You wouldn't just frame & look at it, you would use it. A copy right might be applied but the protection it offers is probably very limited & wouldn't protect the design. I highly doubt that Tom Brown would have sought a copyright for any type of protection. If his knife would have been used in the film then there might have been some benefit to having this.
As far as the term "TRACKER" goes, that would be protected by a trademark. If you remember, that was the legal discrepancy I got into with Tom when I began making my knives again. Everyone knew my pattern as the TRACKER knife & owning that right could be important to some. The problem I ran into is that even though I did own the trademark at one time, once you drop it & let it pass beyond a year of expiration & then reapply for the mark, the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office looks at it as if you are using it for the first time & it's ownership rights are then open for challenge by others. Even though I probably could have regained the Trademark, the cost of a court battle for it would have been more than its worth for the amount of knives I was producing. I got around the problem by simply changing the name to the BECK WSK (Wilderness Survival Knife). As long as my name was on the blade, everyone would know the difference no matter what I called it.

One last little thing, I know there have been some concerns about some of the fellows producing their own versions these days. Each has its' own good & bad points but understand it's a difficult knife to produce correctly & as these makers make more of their knives they'll become more fine tuned. They are all doing a fine job & need your support & constructive criticizm to produce a better product. Expect delay & glitches. Nothing becomes perfect & fluent overnight. One example is with the RedScorpion Predator. I have one here that I'm reviewing & have had several discussions about it with Aaron.
He has a fine product. Yes, there are some details which could be enhanced & I'm sure he will address them as he's able. I have found him to be very pofessionally-minded & quite knowedgeable in his trade & he is constantly working hard to produce a higher quality product. He offers his work at reasonable prices & I believe you will be seeing some fine work comming out of his shop. I believe this to also be true of some of the other craftsmen I've seen working with this pattern.

David R. Beck
Click to expand...
 
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