You all ruined my Worksharp!

[dkb45]

The title sounds melodramatic, but I stand by it. I hate you all for ruining my Worksharp. I have been toying with the idea for a new sharpener after I noticed that no matter how well I work with my WS I cannot get it to hair whittling. I finally bought some sandpaper as a "why not?" purchase. I now hate you all.

My first edge from sandpaper is far from even and pretty, but damn is it sharp. Just off the 2k paper I was able to shave somewhat cleanly. I now have a dull mirror finish on where I sharpened after stropping, and my edge is nearing hair whittling. Sandpaper was slower, but not terribly so. The 30 sharpening was only increased to a little over an hour, including using my DMT XC to reprofile S30V. Now my WS edges just aren't up to snuff, and I will need to spend about 10 hours redoing all of my knives. I hate you all. My quest for a sharper edge made my $70 sharpener useless.



Obviously I don't hate you all, you are just all dead to me now... You money wasting monsters!

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I spent a ton of money on sharpening gear too, before settling very comfortably into sandpaper sharpening. It has become my most often-used method, and my favorite. I still prefer to use diamond for S30V and similar steels (handles vanadium carbides best), but the sandpaper gets the job done, and excellently at that, on virtually everything else.

The 'pretty' aspects will come. With sandpaper, a firm or hard backing underneath it will minimize or eliminate unsightly scratches on the upper portions of the blade above the bevels, along with increasingly improved technique (practice, practice). Now that you know the 'sharp' is attainable, it'll be much easier and more fun to get that additional practice, to start fine-tuning the 'pretty'. Both of those aspects can also be taken further, using hard-backed strops with well-suited compounds.


David

 

[HeavyHanded]

Most of us wind up with a large bin of grinding and polishing media before coming up with a favorite. Freehand is a lot easier to expand the collection, I even have a favorite coffee mug for my softer kitchen knives...

I eventually crated most of my gear and settled on a Norton Crystalon stone and some compound on paper for a long time, only to simplify things. These days pretty much all I use is wet/dry on a Washboard, is just so convenient and the surface is very solid. As with all methods there are some factors to understand like cleaning the paper, knowing when to swap it out, using a good progression, very light pressure etc, but is very effective. IMHO, silicon carbide in general handles the widest variety of steels with the most consistent results as well.

 

[EyeDog]

The title sounds melodramatic, but I stand by it. I hate you all for ruining my Worksharp. I have been toying with the idea for a new sharpener after I noticed that no matter how well I work with my WS I cannot get it to hair whittling. I finally bought some sandpaper as a "why not?" purchase. I now hate you all.

My first edge from sandpaper is far from even and pretty, but damn is it sharp. Just off the 2k paper I was able to shave somewhat cleanly. I now have a dull mirror finish on where I sharpened after stropping, and my edge is nearing hair whittling. Sandpaper was slower, but not terribly so. The 30 sharpening was only increased to a little over an hour, including using my DMT XC to reprofile S30V. Now my WS edges just aren't up to snuff, and I will need to spend about 10 hours redoing all of my knives. I hate you all. My quest for a sharper edge made my $70 sharpener useless.



Obviously I don't hate you all, you are just all dead to me now... You money wasting monsters!

For me...I guess I don't know what a really sharp knife is. My wash board w/sandpaper, my Work Sharp and my Sharp Maker put edges that smoothly cut paper. That will shave hair off my arm and from time to time bite me.

I did buy a knife here that came with an edge pro edge and it was slightly sharper then I've been able to do.

Since I have not shaved my beard in almost 50 years I see no need for a shaving edge. 😁

 

[cbwx34]

The title sounds melodramatic, but I stand by it. I hate you all for ruining my Worksharp. I have been toying with the idea for a new sharpener after I noticed that no matter how well I work with my WS I cannot get it to hair whittling. I finally bought some sandpaper as a "why not?" purchase. I now hate you all.

My first edge from sandpaper is far from even and pretty, but damn is it sharp. Just off the 2k paper I was able to shave somewhat cleanly. I now have a dull mirror finish on where I sharpened after stropping, and my edge is nearing hair whittling. Sandpaper was slower, but not terribly so. The 30 sharpening was only increased to a little over an hour, including using my DMT XC to reprofile S30V. Now my WS edges just aren't up to snuff, and I will need to spend about 10 hours redoing all of my knives. I hate you all. My quest for a sharper edge made my $70 sharpener useless.



Obviously I don't hate you all, you are just all dead to me now... You money wasting monsters!

But,,,,, isn't a WorkSharp just strips of sandpaper on the move???

 

[Jason B.]

Lol, just $70?

My box of extra stones.


More stones.


Belts, compounds, oils, acids, etc.


Most used stones.

 

[Fish30114]

Jason, what is the acid for--blade coloring?

 

[dkb45]

I still plan on getting some DMT for freehand. The diamonds will last a lot longer than sandpaper and work on every steel really well. I plan on adding some ceramic on top of the DMT EF in the near future. Really, since my knife went through a proper grit progression (which is what is most likely holding the Worksharp back, straight from 220 to 6k is insane... but my 220 is more like 500 now from wear). I should be able to take my knife finished on 2k to 6k without too much issue. I will try it out and post my results.

What are some ceramics that are CHEAP and finer than 2k sandpaper? I can live with a smaller (3" minimum, 4" or bigger is preferred) stone, I only need the grit. I know I can get lapping film, but that stuff has a limited life like sandpaper.

 

[Bob6794]

Well at least it was only a $70 sharpener. Most guys around here seem to go through hundreds of dollars worth of equipment just to realize what works for them is quite cheap. You could have went edgepro, wicked edge, worksharp ko, etc and than finally realized you like sandpaper. Consider yourself lucky.

 

[dkb45]

But,,,,, isn't a WorkSharp just strips of sandpaper on the move???

The WS is just a small belt sander, but it suffers from a fatal flaw, even with perfect technique (mine isn't perfect, just a point to make). The standard WS jumps from a paltry 220 grit all the way up to a 6k grit belt, leaving really deep scratches that never get refined out. The edges can get sharp, but nowhere close to the full potential of a 6k belt. I have used a 6k belt in a proper grit progression, and the results couldn't be much different. Even with poor technique, I was still getting much sharper edges that were nearly mirror polished. All the skill in the world isn't a substitute for a proper grit progression.

 

[dkb45]

Well at least it was only a $70 sharpener. Most guys around here seem to go through hundreds of dollars worth of equipment just to realize what works for them is quite cheap. You could have went edgepro, wicked edge, worksharp ko, etc and than finally realized you like sandpaper. Consider yourself lucky.

Trust me, the WS isn't getting off that easy. It is still king for speed of reprofiling, and it will still give a sharp enough edge to scare non knife nuts. I will keep the WS around until the whole unit dies.

 

[Jason B.]

Etching/forced patina

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I still plan on getting some DMT for freehand. The diamonds will last a lot longer than sandpaper and work on every steel really well. I plan on adding some ceramic on top of the DMT EF in the near future. Really, since my knife went through a proper grit progression (which is what is most likely holding the Worksharp back, straight from 220 to 6k is insane... but my 220 is more like 500 now from wear). I should be able to take my knife finished on 2k to 6k without too much issue. I will try it out and post my results.

What are some ceramics that are CHEAP and finer than 2k sandpaper? I can live with a smaller (3" minimum, 4" or bigger is preferred) stone, I only need the grit. I know I can get lapping film, but that stuff has a limited life like sandpaper.

You could accomplish essentially the same thing with hard-backed strops of paper or thin fabric over wood or glass, stone, etc. Some aluminum oxide compound, or diamond/CBN compounds, used on hard strops, can refine to the same or better degree. Diamond compound works great on bare wood. I've hardly used my ceramics at all, since switching to using hard strops. The tendency of ceramics to produce burrs, if pressure is just slightly heavy, is something I was glad to leave behind. A paper-over-wood strop (I like linen over wood, as well) will tolerate more pressure, with much less penalty.

If you do still want to use ceramics, even some of the cheap ones can be very good. But, it takes some experimentation and additional gambles with $$, to see if you can find the good ones (I think I have 6-8 sets of V-crock ceramic sharpeners alone). Ceramics are much more of a toss-up in that regard. An additional consideration, with 'flat' ceramic hones, is that many aren't actually flat. If the edges of the hones are just slightly raised (I even have Spyderco hones with this issue), that magnifies the pressure-focusing issues that generate burrs, or even chip edges on harder steels. I'd fully expect to see more of these issues in 'cheap' alternatives; it's common in less-expensive sharpening stones in general. That's something that's also easy to avoid, in using a flat, smooth board as backing for a paper or linen strop.


David

 

[dkb45]

You could accomplish essentially the same thing with hard-backed strops of paper or thin fabric over wood or glass, stone, etc. Some aluminum oxide compound, or diamond/CBN compounds, used on hard strops, can refine to the same or better degree. Diamond compound works great on bare wood. I've hardly used my ceramics at all, since switching to using hard strops. The tendency of ceramics to produce burrs, if pressure is just slightly heavy, is something I was glad to leave behind. A paper-over-wood strop (I like linen over wood, as well) will tolerate more pressure, with much less penalty.

If you do still want to use ceramics, even some of the cheap ones can be very good. But, it takes some experimentation and additional gambles with $$, to see if you can find the good ones (I think I have 6-8 sets of V-crock ceramic sharpeners alone). Ceramics are much more of a toss-up in that regard. An additional consideration, with 'flat' ceramic hones, is that many aren't actually flat. If the edges of the hones are just slightly raised (I even have Spyderco hones with this issue), that magnifies the pressure-focusing issues that generate burrs, or even chip edges on harder steels. I'd fully expect to see more of these issues in 'cheap' alternatives; it's common in less-expensive sharpening stones in general. That's something that's also easy to avoid, in using a flat, smooth board as backing for a paper or linen strop.


David

I already strop with black/green compound on leather (softer, all I could get), but I also just bought a Flexcut knife strop and my quick research shows that Flexcut Gold leaves a finer edge, and the strop is very hard so there should be little if any rounding.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I already strop with black/green compound on leather (softer, all I could get), but I also just bought a Flexcut knife strop and my quick research shows that Flexcut Gold leaves a finer edge, and the strop is very hard so there should be little if any rounding.

The substrate under the compound makes a huge difference as well, sometimes more than changing the compound itself. If you get a chance, try out your Flexcut Gold on multiple surfaces, like wood, paper-over-wood, fabric (linen, denim). The compound will generally work more aggressively, as the substrate gets firmer or harder. So, if you're looking for a little more 'bite' from a given compound, or more thorough polishing of scratch patterns, sometimes just using it on a firmer substrate is all that's needed.

BTW, I think the Flexcut Gold is a blend of aluminum oxide and perhaps other abrasives*. I keep hearing good things about it, but haven't yet tried it myself.

Edit: * = Titanium oxide (a.k.a. Titanium Dioxide, or TiO[SUB]2[/SUB]) is the other portion of the mix, as described on the Flexcut site. Apparently, TiO[SUB]2[/SUB] is blended with the Al[SUB]2[/SUB]O[SUB]3[/SUB] to enhance toughness of the abrasive.


David

 

[dkb45]

The substrate under the compound makes a huge difference as well, sometimes more than changing the compound itself. If you get a chance, try out your Flexcut Gold on multiple surfaces, like wood, paper-over-wood, fabric (linen, denim). The compound will generally work more aggressively, as the substrate gets firmer or harder. So, if you're looking for a little more 'bite' from a given compound, or more thorough polishing of scratch patterns, sometimes just using it on a firmer substrate is all that's needed.

BTW, I think the Flexcut Gold is a blend of aluminum oxide and perhaps other abrasives. I keep hearing good things about it, but haven't yet tried it myself.


David

I will try out black and green on a hard substrate first. I don't have much gold to use (maybe 2 or 3oz) so I will have to get guaranteed results before I try it out.

 

[bgentry]

The WS is just a small belt sander, but it suffers from a fatal flaw, (...) The standard WS jumps from a paltry 220 grit all the way up to a 6k grit belt, leaving really deep scratches that never get refined out.

You can get different grit belts for the WSKTS. On their page of belts they have 400, 600, and 1800 grit belts available.

I have the WSKO and it came with P120, X65, X22, X4, and "6000" belts. That last one is more like 3000, but who's counting? That progression works really well. I've also used (60 grit or X200), X100, X22, X5 with *great* results. The spacing of both of those is closer to what you want for a full progression. If you really want all the grits, there are even more available for the WSKO. While the WSKO is almost double the price of the original WSKTS, it's far more versatile with it's variable speed and all of the different grades of belts available for it. No knocking the original. Just singing the praises of the improved version.

Brian.

 

[dkb45]

The substrate under the compound makes a huge difference as well, sometimes more than changing the compound itself. If you get a chance, try out your Flexcut Gold on multiple surfaces, like wood, paper-over-wood, fabric (linen, denim). The compound will generally work more aggressively, as the substrate gets firmer or harder. So, if you're looking for a little more 'bite' from a given compound, or more thorough polishing of scratch patterns, sometimes just using it on a firmer substrate is all that's needed.

BTW, I think the Flexcut Gold is a blend of aluminum oxide and perhaps other abrasives. I keep hearing good things about it, but haven't yet tried it myself.


David

I tried stropping on paper. It didn't do much of anything. My edges aren't close to perfectly flat, so the paper isn't contacting the edge very well. My super hard Flexcut strop with gold on it is working quite well though.

Touching up the edge with the 6k belt was very helpful. The M390 Barrage I did turned out terrible, but the ZT 700 I did is able to almost push cut tissue paper. My first attempt turned out pretty well.

 

[David Martin]

Steels with vanadium will respond slower. I didn't have much success with plain paper either. Put some slurry on it and it turns out better. I still think a hardwood board with slurry is better. I'm glad I didn't go nuts and spend too much money on stones. DM

 

[dkb45]

Steels with vanadium will respond slower. I didn't have much success with plain paper either. Put some slurry on it and it turns out better. I still think a hardwood board with slurry is better. I'm glad I didn't go nuts and spend too much money on stones. DM

Don't have anything to make slurry with. If it comes off my diamond stone or sandpaper, I should not try and dig my knife through my abrasive. No natural stones here.