You Can't Beat INFI . . . . . Oh, Really? . . . Watch This!!! . . . INFI Destruction Test! . . .

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Xapur said:
When I see how Tramontina or Cold Steel machetes withstand shocks and bending compared to Busse, it drives me crazy.
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Knives with huge flat portion and thin stock are inherently more flexible, it has nothing to do with the property of the steel.
Look at how a real knife expert interprets such behavior:
Along those lines, Mike Turber recently snapped 1" off a Busse Basic by flexing it past 50 degrees. Out of curiosity I took a 12" Ontario machete and jammed the tip in a stump about 1" and flexed it to determine the fracture point. I bend it so the handle was past 90 degrees to the tip (which was distorting the wood so the actual bend angle is a little lower). Does this indicate the 1995 machete is "tougher" than the Basic? No, it can handle a much larger flex because it it thinner and a little longer. However what is important is that I bent the machete with one hand with little/no effort. It took Mike all he had to bend the Basic. The strengths are very different.
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If you can’t tell apart the design factor(shape of the knife), from the material property factor, there is no way to evaluate the quality of steel.

Xapur said:
Thus, the best choice depends on specific needs and the context of use. However, in reality, my reaction and choice based on my personal experience lead me to prefer a soft steel knife that I need to sharpen often, which bends but does not break, and that I can straighten to continue using, rather than a hard steel knife that keeps its edge well but risks breaking into one or more pieces, rendering the tool mostly unusable. Therefore, Busse knives, especially the choppers, which fall into the latter category, are not among my preferred choices.
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This is a typical old fashioned myth, softer steels are never guaranteed to be tough.
Yes, there are tough and soft steels and hard and brittle steels.
However, there are also steels that are tough and hard or soft and brittle at the same time.
Sometimes, soft and brittle(but tougher than CPM-10V) steels like CPM-9V is needed for its wear resistance and hot hardness.
Sometimes, when tempering enbrittlement occurs during improper heat treatment, the steel become softer and more brittle.
It is correct that there is always tradeoff, but there is simply much more to balancing a steel than just toughness goes up and hardness goes down, which is incorrect.


INFI is tough and hard(strong) at the same time with very decent corrosion resistance.
it has the same concept or design orientation as steel such as K888 CD#1 Z-tuff W360 Unimax, Calmax, to be very tough and pretty hard(around 60Rc) at the same time.
There are stainless steels of the similar concept:AEB-L 14C28N magnacut LC200N Nitrobe 77, hard and tough.
(The tradeoffs of these steels primarily include wear resistance,which leads to lower CATRA TCC;magnacut is more wear resistance, and more brittle as a trade off; LC200N gave up some maximum hardness for ultimate corrosion resistance )

Are all these steels are brittle, and not good ,just because they are hard?

Except the fluke AFBM, which INFI chipped or bent easily? I did not see that in Joe X video.
 
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X Xapur Someone did this a while back.

They cut a CS 1055 machete with INFI.
The thickness of INFI at the depth of the damage is just above 0.040 of an inch(around 1mm)
On the 1055 part, the damage went all the way to stock thickness of 2.8mm.
Conclusion,INFI is more than twice as strong as the 1055 and is not brittle.
If they continue, the FBM would cut right through that 1055.

What does that say about toughness/strength/durability of INFI?
 
Your points of view are entirely understandable. However, my preference is for a knife that can bend and be straightened, as opposed to a knife that might break. This is a matter of personal choice depending on the intended use and the situations in which the knife will be used.

Busse knives are often praised for their extreme performance, offering an impressive combination of hardness, wear resistance, and edge retention. However, even high-performance steels can break under certain conditions. A knife that breaks becomes useless in a critical situation.

Knives made from softer steel or treated to be more resilient are generally more flexible and less likely to break. They can be straightened if bent and are often easier to sharpen. Weakness: they do not offer the same edge retention or wear resistance as harder, high-performance steels.

If you use a knife for extremely tough or abusive tasks, a softer and more flexible steel might be more reliable. It can survive shocks and forces that would break a harder knife. For uses where efficient cutting and edge retention are paramount, a higher-performing steel might be preferred, even with the increased risk of breakage.

My preference for a more durable and flexible knife, capable of bending and continuing to function, reflects a pragmatic and functional approach to knife use. Extreme performance and hardness of some steels can be impressive in certain contexts, but for use in extreme situations, I am convinced that reliability, durability, and the knife's ability to stay in one piece take precedence.

I understand that, ultimately, the choice of the ideal knife depends on personal priorities and the situations in which the tool is intended to be used. My preference clearly goes for a knife that can bend and be straightened rather than a knife that might break, due to the reliability and durability in critical situations. These are the points that make what I consider to be "extreme performance knives", certainly not a knife that breaks like in JoeX's video.
 
Xapur said:
Your points of view are entirely understandable. However, my preference is for a knife that can bend and be straightened, as opposed to a knife that might break. This is a matter of personal choice depending on the intended use and the situations in which the knife will be used.

Busse knives are often praised for their extreme performance, offering an impressive combination of hardness, wear resistance, and edge retention. However, even high-performance steels can break under certain conditions. A knife that breaks becomes useless in a critical situation.

Knives made from softer steel or treated to be more resilient are generally more flexible and less likely to break. They can be straightened if bent and are often easier to sharpen. Weakness: they do not offer the same edge retention or wear resistance as harder, high-performance steels.

If you use a knife for extremely tough or abusive tasks, a softer and more flexible steel might be more reliable. It can survive shocks and forces that would break a harder knife. For uses where efficient cutting and edge retention are paramount, a higher-performing steel might be preferred, even with the increased risk of breakage.

My preference for a more durable and flexible knife, capable of bending and continuing to function, reflects a pragmatic and functional approach to knife use. Extreme performance and hardness of some steels can be impressive in certain contexts, but for use in extreme situations, I am convinced that reliability, durability, and the knife's ability to stay in one piece take precedence.

I understand that, ultimately, the choice of the ideal knife depends on personal priorities and the situations in which the tool is intended to be used. My preference clearly goes for a knife that can bend and be straightened rather than a knife that might break, due to the reliability and durability in critical situations. These are the points that make what I consider to be "extreme performance knives", certainly not a knife that breaks like in JoeX's video.
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From what I’m getting at. Your preference might not include knives at all, but machetes. I see where you’re coming from, machetes are near unbreakable by nature because of the way it flexes. It would be pretty ill fitted in prying anything though, or stabbing through anything in an extreme survival situation due to the flexibility.

But because you mentioned a knife bending and being able to bend it back..


This is an example of a knife being Hard, Tough, moderately thin enough to slice brush, and will bend before breaking..

Ease of sharpening I’m not sure of, since it’s a harder steel it should de-burr easier no? Unlike soft steels that will just flip the burr back and forth for ages..
 
Was there testing like this done to the tnt-15 I never could find a bend test just the one it’s hammered into concrete blocks.
 
It's freaking awesome. Toughness allows the blade to absorb energy from impacts without fracturing. A tough blade can bend or deform slightly rather than snapping. How does this blade react to shocks?
 
Jack of All Blades said:
machetes are near unbreakable by nature because of the way it flexes. It would be pretty ill fitted in prying anything though, or stabbing through anything in an extreme survival situation due to the flexibility.
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It depends. I had a Martindale 15 Inch bolo machete with a 4.14 mm blade thickness (shortened and modded like an Hudson Bay camp knife).

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X Xapur
There are three things you need to get straight.
1 Understand that you need to eliminate or compensate the effect of geometry and overall design, to assess the quality of material
2 Learn some metallurgy, it is possible to make steel hard and tough at the same time .
3 Take reviews from different resources and evaluate the outcome unbiased.
How about that INFI vs 1055 test,how about noss, how about cliff, how about you do it yourself?
JoeX ‘s testing are unscientific(inconsistent inaccurate) and his statements are generally biased, and he fails to do the first point above.

I have addressed these issues multiple times in my previous replies, please don’t repeat misinformation, ask a more detailed question if ther is still something you don’t understand.
 
Generally, in the real world, where chopping concrete with a knife isn't usually a thing, a Busse is more than tough enough for anything.
I have many many knives but few are as reliable as a nice Busse, and they cost much more
I have accidently chopped concrete while clearing ice and the tip of a very nice Mastersmith in O1 did chip, and the Busse video didn't really test that.
I hit very very hard before my arthritis but those were good solid whacks and an honest test IMHO ( where is Cliff S. when you need him? ;) )


The one thing of concern is all the hate mail from the SPOCK: the Society for the Prevention Of Cruelty to Knives....
 
IMG_8508.pngI feel like this needs to be posted with all this how tuff is it really um use it an abuse it! Iv never felt more confident in any knife then the busse an its kin I have now even if I break a blade “i don’t think I could”ops now you have two sharp blades win win in the woods am I right now you have a spear point and something to cut with 🤣.
 
Deltadreams said:
View attachment 2630186shit hears mine in action cutting wires, I carry mine an use it everyday. Hell I used it to knock out the the metal knock outs in electrical box at work didn’t even faze it.
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I’ve been looking for a good replacement for my Esee Izula2, it’s hard to beat it and harder to find a Busse model available that’s similar to it in size. Been eyeing the bear cub for a while now.
 
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