You can't do THAT with a ZT...

Screwdriver · May 5, 2015

stabman said:
Not sure I believe most of those cases are real anyway.
People say lots of things that aren't true.

Lots of vids on YouTube for "zero tolerance lock failure"

stabman · May 5, 2015

TBL said:
ROFL

Thanks for the laugh. That just made my night!

Sweet thread BTW :thumbup:

IBTL?

If other lock strength threads don't get locked, then I don't see why this one would.

stabman · May 5, 2015

Screwdriver said:
Lots of vids on YouTube for "zero tolerance lock failure"

Yeah, I've seen some; people like posting them here.

Just saying I don't necessarily believe them all.

Some probably are legitimate though...not all people are liars.

PURPLEDC · May 5, 2015

asdf12345 said:
No one said ZTs are weak knives or that lock disengagement problems were common.

Really? No one. Not a single person huh? No, couldnt have happened......................

knifedude802 said:
I'll get it fixed when I have the time. It's the fact that it needs fixing in the first place, as do too many ZT's being shipped out. A disproportionate amount compared to most any other knife maker.

That said, I like ZT, I like KAI, I buy their knives still. I like the designs, and the performance you CAN get from some of their models. I like the design of the 0300/0200. I don't like that they seem to have weak lockups relatively commonly.

Krissig12 · May 5, 2015

stabman · May 5, 2015

Krissig12 said:

Probably safer than toads for a snack.

The huge numbers of toads out where I was got my interest up as to their edibility.
Common consensus seems to be that it's best not to try eating them.

TBL · May 5, 2015

Screwdriver said:
Lots of vids on YouTube for "zero tolerance lock failure"

Not to call them all out as lairs, but without being there to prove 100% that nothing happened to that knife before the video just validates stabman's point. In court they wouldn't have a case. After watching CS's call out on the 0350's I took mine to the garage, threw the blade in a vice and put my weight down on the handle to try to get it to fail, didn't happen (go figure). Granted, when a company produces a few thousand knives a year, there are bound to be ones that slip through QC. Seems every one that does winds up on the internet before the company has a chance to correct their mistake.

stabman said:
If other lock strength thread don't get locked, then I don't see why this one would.

True enough. :thumbup:

asdf12345 · May 5, 2015

stabman said:
Not sure I believe most of those cases are real anyway.
People say lots of things that aren't true.

Scenario 1:

A significant number of people, for whatever reason, get the idea in their head that they'll release videos and forum posts months or years apart showing easy lock disengagements and failures.

These people purchase and intentionally tamper with expensive knives for the sole purpose of misleading others.

Their deception is so involved that they make sure their other videos and forum posts actually praise ZT for the various aspects of their knives - this is so that nobody suspects they're lying about the lock issues.

They all write off the cost of the $200+ knives they intentionally made unsafe for use just to prove a nonexistent point.

Scenario 2:

When a person has an issue with the lock on his knife, he makes a video about it or posts about it on a forum.

stabman said:
Yeah, I've seen some; people like posting them here.
Just saying I don't necessarily believe them all.

I'm curious to know if you would be as dismissive of those demonstrating the failures if it was another company that was involved. More unpopular brands such as Microtech, Strider, Quartermaster? Would you be so quick to question the demonstrations of failures on those knives, and to suggest that the people who posted about them or made videos about them are liars?

stabman · May 5, 2015

TBL said:
After watching CS's call out on the 0350's I took mine to the garage, threw the blade in a vice and put my weight down on the handle to try to get it to fail, didn't happen (go figure).

This thread was largely born out of curiosity as well.
I was pretty sure my knife would hold up to it, but I didn't know beforehand, as I don't generally do such things with my knife.
I was almost 100% certain there would be no catastrophic failure, but a certain degree of blade-play would not have totally surprised me.

Happy to say it remained just as good as before, but I was prepared for if it wasn't.

PURPLEDC · May 5, 2015

bodog said:
Troll thread intended to upset people rather than simply discuss issues.

that didnt take long did it.....................

bodog · May 5, 2015

PURPLEDC said:
that didnt take long did it.....................

Email sent

asdf12345 · May 5, 2015

PURPLEDC said:
Really? No one. Not a single person huh? No, couldnt have happened......................

"Common" =/= "relatively common in comparison."

bodog said:
Troll thread intended to upset people rather than simply discuss issues.

You're not helping your position by lowering yourself to troll accusations.

PURPLEDC · May 5, 2015

asdf12345 said:
Scenario 1:

A significant number of people, for whatever reason, get the idea in their head that they'll release videos and forum posts months or years apart showing easy lock disengagements and failures.

These people purchase and intentionally tamper with expensive knives for the sole purpose of misleading others.

Their deception is so involved that they make sure their other videos and forum posts actually praise ZT for the various aspects of their knives - this is so that nobody suspects they're lying about the lock issues.

They all write off the cost of the $200+ knives they intentionally made unsafe for use just to prove a nonexistent point.

Scenario 2:

When a person has an issue with the lock on his knife, he makes a video about it or posts about it on a forum.

I'm curious to know if you would be as dismissive of those demonstrating the failures if it was another company that was involved. More unpopular brands such as Microtech, Strider, Quartermaster? Would you be so quick to question the demonstrations of failures on those knives, and to suggest that the people who posted about them or made videos about them are liars?

The reason i believe some are liars is because I have actually witnessed people lie first hand about lock up. Why? I have no idea. But they were called on it and disappeared. That isnt to say everyone is lying but just because you see a youtube video doesnt make it so. And it doesnt mean that it cant be a simple adjustment to fix it.

PURPLEDC · May 5, 2015

asdf12345 said:
"Common" =/= "relatively common in comparison."

.

The quote was "they seem to have weak lockups relatively commonly" the word comparison was not used. Either way you are simply splitting hairs or in this case words. To pretend he meant anything other than what it looks like is wishful thinking of someone who wont admit a mistake no matter how blatant the mistake is.

stabman · May 5, 2015

asdf12345 said:
I'm curious to know if you would be as dismissive of those demonstrating the failures if it was another company that was involved. More unpopular brands such as Microtech, Strider, Quartermaster? Would you be so quick to question the demonstrations of failures on those knives, and to suggest that the people who posted about them or made videos about them are liars?

Yes.
I will go on record as saying that most of them are probably a bunch of liars as well.

bodog · May 5, 2015

stabman said:
This thread was largely born out of curiosity as well.
I was pretty sure my knife would hold up to it, but I didn't know beforehand, as I don't generally do such things with my knife.
I was almost 100% certain there would be no catastrophic failure, but a certain degree of blade-play would not have totally surprised me.

Happy to say it remained just as good as before, but I was prepared for if it wasn't.

If I had a slip joint or a $5 jarbenza I bet I could baton a tree without catastrophic failure, too, if the blade was long enough. The success means less than the failure in this type of work. I bet the cheapest gun company in Slovakia has a bunch of guns that pass QC and shoot just fine. What matters is the failure rate. That's an objective truth for any company in any field. And that's why people purchase well tested guns from well reputed companies. And that's not just why people buy from well reputed companies. That's why they pay more to well reputed companies, for the peace of mind that comes from having a reliable product. If reliability isn't so much of a concern, then one could buy a gun from any eastern European company for $50. Why pay $500?

Just a neutral third party trying to keep things on an even keel.

pinnah · May 5, 2015

stabman said:
In general, I tend to use a fixed blade knife for woods play, and most fire wood comes from the ever-increasing amount of deadwood from storms (green wood doesn't burn very well anyway).

Fixed it for you.

Congratulations. Your ZT has now been shown to be as tough as a $15 Opinel. ;^)

Seriouly, as others have mentioned, when I'm forc^H^H^H^H choose to baton with an Opinel, I leave the lock ring disengaged. Nice thing about the lock ring design is that the lock won't automatically engage. But then, I suspect a sodbuster could do the same thing.

Geneo · May 5, 2015

PURPLEDC said:
that didnt take long did it.....................

Yes, it seems like if you post anything ZT that isn't for sale or trade, these anti ZT spine-whack zealots start trolling. Really this thread about batoning had little to nothing to do with lock failures.

asdf12345 · May 5, 2015

PURPLEDC said:
The quote was "they seem to have weak lockups relatively commonly" the word comparison was not used. Either way you are simply splitting hairs or in this case words. To pretend he meant anything other than what it looks like is wishful thinking of someone who wont admit a mistake no matter how blatant the mistake is.

I took "relatively" and "a disproportionate amount compared to other knifemakers" to mean that he was framing his remarks with a comparison between ZT and other brands.

In any case I am not including those who say "All or the majority of ZTs are flawed and unsafe because of a few examples." in my original statement. I am sure no one takes such opinions seriously.

Sonnydaze · May 5, 2015

stabman said:
On a smaller diameter tree or limb, that would work.
On one of this diameter, not so much.

Besides, this was more a test of the knife's robustness.
Hence, I am good for the environment in the same way as the noble beaver, that most Canadian of animals.

I was just gently harassing one of my Canadian friends.

Don