Your opinion on batoning?

chuxwan said:
Your knife is built very differently from a chisel for that reason... Do I really need to explain all the differences to illustrate that cross batoning is not justified because chisels exist? You don't need to baton to make notches for pot hooks and stakes, this is pretty easy to do by just pushing the blade into the wood.
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The couple of times I "cross-batoned" that's all I did - pushed the blade into the wood with Light taps of a piece of wood. If it didn't go easily, I would have stopped.

Nor did I suspect I would have to "justify" it to anyone, much less forty years later. :)
 
bowieknifenick said:
I'm still a bit new to this forum so I wasn't really sure where to post this or if there's a million other threads out there. I apologize if I'm being redundant.

What's your opinion on batoning? +

Looking forward to hearing your opinions
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Important skill to know for making kindling and small fuel in temperate and boreal forests during or after wet weather, but rarely necessary.

Also a convenient skill for wood reduction and notches (such as the pothook) in woodcraft.
 
:dejection:
Oh. My. God.... This again.. Boy howdy I've been(insert remark about how awesome a woodsman you are, thus implying everyone with a differing opinion is a less awesome woodsman, here) for X years and I NEVER needed to_____!
You must be amateurs!
Batoning is useful
Batoning is stupid
Batoning will break your knife
Batoning is the benchmark of an outdoors blade
Batoning makes you look ruggedly handsome
Batoning makes you look like a silly girly man who doesn't know what he's doing in the woods
Holy crap people. It's like the red meat argument from dietitians....
Can we all agree that we have had different experiences?
Can we all agree that we can all learn from each other?
Excellent!

I prefer a knife, a big freakin knife, because I LOVE knives, especially big freakin knives. I'm not partial to axes, I know they are a useful tool, and if wood processing is in the plans it would be in the interests of efficiency to pack an axe. But I don't care! I like knives not axes. So I beat the snot out of my big ole Gossman and bust up some gnarly oak, manzanita, and other harsh twisted gnarled nasty wood because I like to!

Now, when carving notches such as the simple pot hook it's been MY EXPERIENCE that a little cross grain baton action is needed because most of the wood around me is tough, dense, twisted, gnarled or a combination of all of those. A saw works even easier for this, but saws are boring to me. So I use my big ole knife to cut those notches. And you know what? It feels pretty cool to know that I could wander out with just that big ole blade and do alright. I've carved a spoon, traps, camp furniture and cut down 20' trees with it. It's a spatula, a fork, a spoon and a knife all in one!

I've also started a fire with nothing more than my hands and wits. But it was NOT fun.

I like my knife. I like beating my kindling into submission before burning it. Do I need to? Absolutely not. But I'm going to continue doing it, just like some of you are going to continue to insist that I'm "abusing" my knife, or that "I'm not using the right tool for the job" is it wrong if it works?

*I'm drunk and this post was meant to be light hearted.
 
Batoning is stupid
Batoning will break your knifes it broke some of my knifes and i wasent doing it that hard at all
 
Verizon.net said:
Batoning is stupid
Batoning will break your knifes it broke some of my knifes and i wasent doing it that hard at all
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And here's where the argument will always stay.

There's going to be someone new to pop in and throw a generality around.
 
Verizon.net said:
Batoning is stupid
Batoning will break your knifes it broke some of my knifes and i wasent doing it that hard at all
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You said "knifes."
Therefore, your argument is invalid. ;)

By the way, just try and break this:

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I triple dog dare you!

(And stop using "knifes"...apparently those are fragile :D)
 
I have no fear of breaking these knives, they're guaranteed for my stupid abuse, though baton is about the only abuse they'll see.



 
I think batoning is a great way to split wood and get down into the dry wood in the middle of the log. Knives are also lighter and more useful than hatchets.
 
Define a bad knife? define a fast car? One person's experience is no worse than another's. Perhaps knife quality was lacking, or technique, or luck, who knows? some people just break stuff, and some do not. You are entitled to think whatever it is that you want to think. However it would be appreciated if you did so think before posting. Perhaps why you hold this opinion, and what conditions you find yourself in to find it favorable? What factor do you feel is important to consider? That MrBladeDude will add to the conversation, which is purpose of this forum, is it not?
 
If a knife isn't reliable enough to baton and process at least small wood to get dry stuff to start my fire, I have no use for it outside of my kitchen.

I rarely need to baton.

The way this subject comes up on such a regular basis is silly. The way people on both sides of the discussion feel the need to insult one another is even sillier... as if this is some important issue worthy of personal emotional investment. It's pounding a piece of metal through a piece of wood ffs.
 
I baton both my own knives and those made by others on a regular basis. When done with a modicum of common sense, it's a perfectly valid, safe and efficient way to make large pieces of wood smaller. I've done it hundreds if not thousands of times with blades both very cheap and very costly, thick and thin, with the grain and across it... and I have never broken any knife by batonning it through wood.

However, I DO NOT warranty my knives when used to baton, simply because there are a whole lot of ways to do it completely wrong. I operate on a very slim margin, and in my business people sometimes take warranties as a personal challenge. If I had to replace a $200-300+ knife because someone decided to sledge-hammer it through an oak log or cinder block and managed to break it, that could foul up my whole month. I love my job, but I'm not terribly interested in doing it for free ;)

[video=youtube;W4yItkfq2Ec]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4yItkfq2Ec[/video]
 
Ombra said:
Batoning is totally fine, just use a knife that can handle the task (full tang, high carbon steel, well forged: ESEE, Becker, EnZo, etc) and proper wood pieces, not too knotty or hard!
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You're... partly right. Especially when trying to split really hard, knotty or tough wood, your best bet is to whittle a couple small wedges before you even begin batonning. As your blade bites into the piece, tap a wedge in there behind it. That prevents binding, which is by far your biggest enemy.

As for steel selection and build style... the knife in my vid above is indeed full tang, but it is CPM-154 "stainless" steel, and I did not forge it, I ground it from barstock. Any reasonably good steel with good HT can handle that sort of work. Including properly-designed narrow tang knives made of almost any common cutlery steel. It's just... not... that... difficult. A knife does not even have to be particularly sharp to accomplish these tasks! It's simply a matter of pushing a wedge through the workpiece. That's it... this is not rocket surgery :p

On the other hand, I've seen many a good sturdy ESEE, Becker, Cold Steel and yes even expensive handmade/customs that were broken beyond repair while batonning. They almost always "fail" right where the handle meets the blade (ricasso/plunge area).

It really doesn't matter much if the blade is full-tang, or narrow tang or even a folder. They break not because the design or steel was bad, but because the person doing the batonning either A) got all buckwild and went to hammering away like a madman, or more often, B) got the knife stuck and kept whaling away at it (usually between the workpiece and the handle, which is almost guaranteed to result in disaster).

Don't let any maker or manu's "hype" fool you! Batonning effectively and efficiently has a lot more to do with the user's technique than it does with the knife itself. Again, problems come when people get carried away and do it wrong. You can break any knife if you hammer on it hard enough and long enough. You will definitely break a knife sooner rather than later if you allow your blade to get bound up in the work and continue beating the snot out of it.
 
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See? A well known and respected maker won't warrant his knives against batooning! Heck, I had workers who could wreck a concrete post with a rubber hammer! And wreck the rubber hammer to boot! By the way, don't ask to borrow my knives for batooning. I will lend you a sledge and steel wedge though. Remember kiddies, wear safety goggles!
 
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